Used Vortech or 2 jabeos?

[sirreal63]

Just many years of experience with good and bad equipment. I have been burned with cheap Chinese equipment more than I should have, I was a slow learner. As you may have noticed, I have been around this hobby a while, I have been an equipment junky and then I learned what those who were experienced before me learned, I finally listened to them. The result, my equipment lasts because I choose what has a long standing history of long life. Hopefully people will not take as long to learn as I did. If just one person is able to benefit from the collective experience here, it is worth it. Those who have their head in the sand cannot be reached. Which one will you be?

There are some of us here who continue to come here not because we have something to sell, but because we enjoy the hobby and want to help others avoid the mistakes we made. Some appreciate that, some don't. Usually the ones who do, and listen, end up being in this hobby a long time, those who don't, we'll, they dont. Which one will you be?

 

[James77]

Are ya trying to sell something here Sirreal? Or are you just offended that others are 'giving your purchase choices a negative review'?

I understand correcting people if they're wrong (like you did with me and the 2 year mistake, it is valid, I replied and set that straight) but I see you're coming back over and over in the thread to tell people they're wrong?

I understand you might have had a good experience with vortechs, and perhaps you've seen some people have bad experiences with jebao, but you don't speak for everyone and every situation.

The truth of it?
Someone can try a jebao for 50-100$ versus an entire months rent for people to try a vortech.

Yeah, Jack makes millions off of Vortech sales. Shhhh....don't tell anyone :lol:

Not sure where you are living, but rent is nowhere near $400 a month around here. Thank God...because I am a landlord

You can try a Vortech for $400, and probably sell it 6 months later for about 10% less. You would be supporting a company that actually innovates and provides their own warranty and customer support. Jebaos have been out for one and a half years(talk to me in 5). I am all for them if people cannot afford the high premium of higher end pumps, but they are not proven pumps and they have no customer support.

To the OP.....I would look at pumps like Koralia or even Tunze non-controllables. They are a smidge more expensive than the Jebaos, but you get good warranties(especially with Tunze). A used Vortech would not be bad, they are good with service even on second hand equipment and have been around many years.

 

[sirreal63]

I have never owned a Vortech, probably never will, if they made an inaudible one, I probably would. I do however own Tunzes, Eheims, Sicce's, IKS, MRC, LiterMeters and have for years. The thing is, these products last. I also have a box of Chinese junk that didn't last and a few years ago I tossed out a large closet full of cheap junk that didn't last. You can buy decent Chinese products, and you can buy junk. Good quality products last years, not months. Good equipment should be a priority, this equipment is life supporting devices, and if someone doesn't understand the importance of buying good quality life supporting devices, they won't be in this hobby long.

 

[James77]

i have never owned a vortech, probably never will, if they made an inaudible one, i probably would. I do however own tunzes, eheims, sicce's, iks, mrc, litermeters and have for years. The thing is, these products last. I also have a box of chinese junk that didn't last and a few years ago i tossed out a large closet full of cheap junk that didn't last. You can buy decent chinese products, and you can buy junk. Good quality products last years, not months. Good equipment should be a priority, this equipment is life supporting devices, and if someone doesn't understand the importance of buying good quality life supporting devices, they won't be in this hobby long.

+1

 

[avandss]

How have you had them for two years, or over two years? Do you have any kind of receipt showing that you bought them prior to October of 2012?

you are right, it might feel like 2 year but in reality it might be less, however all 9 are still working perfectly

also the rw series seems to be better quality (aesthetically) that is, maybe the internals are the same, time will tell.

in my case, so far so good. but it has not been long enough, my vortech on the other hand is driving me crazy. as soon as you turn off the tv, it instantly drives you nuts.

btw, where is tunze manufactured? is it still in Germany?

at the end of the day, when you pay 80$ for a Chinese pump..... you cant really compare it to tunze or ecotech.

i do not for a second think that they are "great" quality, but also not as bad as everyone says

 

[sirreal63]

Tunze is still a German product. For a short time they bought power supplies from China but the high failure rate had them source power supplies from a European source. If you want more details, ask Roger in the Tunze forum. This is something legitimate manufacturers do, they offer support for their products, bottom tier companies do not, they just crank out product. You should always ask yourself why a manufacturer doesn't supply warranty for their products? What do they know about their products that they hope you do not?

The Jebao pushers (some of whome are incentivized for it, amd as we find them we remove them from this forum) will tell you that it is normal in China and distributors handle all warranty. That doesn't explain why legitimate upper tier companies like Maxspect and Reef Octopus provide a warranty for their products? The reason is simple, legitimate companies support their products, their name means something, illegitimate companies just want the money, and care nothing about the product they are selling.

In short it is a coin toss, you may get a batch of pumps that work, or you may get a batch that doesn't. Given the number of people who have had failures it is really hard to claim this is a quality product. You may get lucky or you may not. The failure rate is just too high for those who take this hobby and the creatures in their care serioisly to accept. If you take the time to look at the equipment found in TOTM's you will see a trend, there is a reason for that. Long term means making choices for the long term, even a used high quality piece of equipment is a better investment than a cheaply made piece of equipment.

Hopefully that makes sense to at least some people.

 

[Galtamar]

I think the Jebaos win easily in the OP case. You get 2 pumps vs 1, so you get redundancy in case of a failure. Im setting a 400G tank and was between 2 MP60 or 2 RW20. The price of an MP60 is 5x that of a RW20 so w a failure rate of 1 per year, the MP60 had to last more than 5 years to be better, and thats the reason i got the Jebao's. Recirculation pumps are not a critical component of your aquarium (unless you have only 1 unit like w your case if you choose the MP40) for this reason you can take a chance here, was this about choosing a return pump Ill never recommend going w something cheap.

 

[JPMagyar]

Just many years of experience with good and bad equipment. I have been burned with cheap Chinese equipment more than I should have, I was a slow learner. As you may have noticed, I have been around this hobby a while, I have been an equipment junky and then I learned what those who were experienced before me learned, I finally listened to them. The result, my equipment lasts because I choose what has a long standing history of long life. Hopefully people will not take as long to learn as I did. If just one person is able to benefit from the collective experience here, it is worth it. Those who have their head in the sand cannot be reached. Which one will you be?

There are some of us here who continue to come here not because we have something to sell, but because we enjoy the hobby and want to help others avoid the mistakes we made. Some appreciate that, some don't. Usually the ones who do, and listen, end up being in this hobby a long time, those who don't, we'll, they dont. Which one will you be?

+1


I currently own two Jebao WP-40s and have been running them for about 8 months on my basement 180. I bought them to try on my display. I am a huge fan of Tunze Streams, but I recognize they are very expensive so I was secretly hoping the Jebaos would work for at least a year and then I would simply replace them. They are so cheap I could do that 5 times and come out equal that is assuming $70 for a WP-40 and $350 for a Tunze 6105.

The problem was I am extremely noise sensitive because my display tank is in my living room and I insist on absolute silence (or as close as possible). The Jebaos were the noisiest powerheads I have used to date and I took them out immediately. Neither unit has failed in the 8 months I have owned them, but the reduction in flow from their initial strength is very apparent from a simple hand in the water flow test. In addition I should note I bought and sold Vortechs years ago. I did not like them because of the noise level compared to the Tunzes.


Long story short:

I agree with Jack. I believe in the long run you will get better value from buying Vortechs (I also would suggest Tunze instead but I realize thats not the point of the thread) BUT to see that value will take years and the Jebaos do actually work just fine BUT based on other users experience there is a certain failure rate higher than Vortechs AND a) you don't know if you'll get a good one or not and b) if you get a bad one you're out of luck.

SO

Jebao = cheap and works but some question of risk
Vortech= expensive but proven and low risk

Your choice really, but like Jack's sentiment, folks trying to do this hobby constantly on the cheap usually end up more frustrated than needed.

Just an opinion

 

[moondoggy4]

A little pricey but you can buy over time, 1 at a time, a pair of Tunze 6055 with extra wide flow 6095 covers and a controller would be perfect for your tank. I buy stuff over time instead of huge purchases, work a little over time buy another item.

Roger is the front guy for Tunze he has his own Forum you can check their for their track record, yes there are problems with Tunze but never from lack of support for parts or out of warranty or second or third party purchases. I have several Tunze pumps and one that is over 10 years old and still working if it fails there are not anymore parts for it from the factory Tunze will give me 30% off a replacement pump.

 

[DrBoxedWine]

Thanks everyone. To be honest I hadn't really considered Tunze, i'll definitely keep them in mind. I did some serious planning and budgeting before I started my tank (started planning and saving after a reef convention in March and didn't start the tank till August) and somehow I still way underestimated the amount that I needed, lol. Damn thus is a pricey hobby. So, I've been really digging through my monies and it's gonna Christmas when I finally buy a new powerhead anyway. Thanks everyone for the opinions and i'll keep them all in mind! And as for the reliability, I agree that on a return pump I'd never chance it. I considered a Jabeo return pump but some people on this forum talked some sense into me and I went the extra $ and got an eheim.

 

[greaps]

Think its possible for the chinese lights and pumps to improve or catch up in quality?

 

[moondoggy4]

To the OP, check out the Black Friday sale the day after Thanksgiving some real good deals, check all of the sponsor's to see who has what you need. Good luck

 

[Spiffy]

I have never owned a Vortech, probably never will, if they made an inaudible one, I probably would. I do however own Tunzes, Eheims, Sicce's, IKS, MRC, LiterMeters and have for years. The thing is, these products last. I also have a box of Chinese junk that didn't last and a few years ago I tossed out a large closet full of cheap junk that didn't last. You can buy decent Chinese products, and you can buy junk. Good quality products last years, not months. Good equipment should be a priority, this equipment is life supporting devices, and if someone doesn't understand the importance of buying good quality life supporting devices, they won't be in this hobby long.

You seem to be biased against Chinese products. I understand that you have had bad runs with things made in China, but that doesn't mean everything that comes from a foreign market is junk.

But anyway, I have just recently picked up a Vortech MP10 and love it. The magnetic concept makes installation, device relocation, and cleaning a walk in the park. Plus the ability to wirelessly sync or anti-sync up to eight pumps, and the amount of modes and settings you have is awesome. I have mine set to run in Reef Crest mode during the day, and it switches to Night Mode and back on it's own without me having to touch it after programming. You can even set the controller to auto-dim so you don't have to see the LED's in low-light. The flow direction is wide, and it creates an undertow as well. It kicked up all of the detritus I had in my tank when I first started it, and now my water clarity is noticeably better since I have been using it, and my water clears faster after playing in the substrate.

Yes, there is some sound. I can hear mine a few feet away in a semi-quiet room when it is at full power, but the pump on my skimmer is actually louder than the MP10. The sound reminded me of a vibrating Xbox controller on the couch. People make a big deal about it, but everyone judges by different standards. What sounds like a jet engine to one might seem like a car motor to another.

In terms of price, I have definitely learned the hard way in this hobby that you do get what you pay for. If you skimp on your gear, you will run into problems, and vise-versa. The $285 that I paid seemed steep and kept me away for a while, but now that I have tried it, I think that it was worth every penny.

 

[sirreal63]

You seem to be biased against Chinese products. I understand that you have had bad runs with things made in China, but that doesn't mean everything that comes from a foreign market is junk.

Mostly the poorly made products, if read the post you quoted you will see where I noted there are legitimate Chinese companies making a decent product, if you did not catch that, then I am sorry. Most of the equipment on my tank is from a foreign market, that was also shown in the post you quoted? :wave:

 

[Spiffy]

I wouldn't consider the Jebao as having a good record, way too many failures in far too short of time.

Comparing it to a Vortech is silly, apples and oranges. I never really understand why people do that? Maybe because they will look silly comparing to a Tunze? Compare it to a Tunze, which is what the Jebao was copied from. When you do that, the Jebao looks like what it is, a cheap knock off product. There are many of us with Tunzes over 10 years old, and some with over 15 year old Tunzes. I highly doubt any Jebao will make it to the three year mark. Junk is junk, hype is hype. Quality stands the test of time and bottom tier Chinese knockoffs never stand the test of time. You can buy better quality Chinese products, but they do not have Jebao written on them.

If people are happy with low priced, low quality items that fail in a short time or have to constantly clean them to keep them going, then maybe their priorities are off. Spending a little more to get something that lasts is always a better use of money.

So you are saying the numerous people who had failures of the Jebaos were wrong and their pumps did not fail? Or are you saying that because you haven't had problems yet, that there are no problems?

I have never owned a Vortech, probably never will, if they made an inaudible one, I probably would. I do however own Tunzes, Eheims, Sicce's, IKS, MRC, LiterMeters and have for years. The thing is, these products last. I also have a box of Chinese junk that didn't last and a few years ago I tossed out a large closet full of cheap junk that didn't last. You can buy decent Chinese products, and you can buy junk. Good quality products last years, not months. Good equipment should be a priority, this equipment is life supporting devices, and if someone doesn't understand the importance of buying good quality life supporting devices, they won't be in this hobby long.

Tunze is still a German product. For a short time they bought power supplies from China but the high failure rate had them source power supplies from a European source. If you want more details, ask Roger in the Tunze forum. This is something legitimate manufacturers do, they offer support for their products, bottom tier companies do not, they just crank out product. You should always ask yourself why a manufacturer doesn't supply warranty for their products? What do they know about their products that they hope you do not?

The Jebao pushers (some of whome are incentivized for it, amd as we find them we remove them from this forum) will tell you that it is normal in China and distributors handle all warranty. That doesn't explain why legitimate upper tier companies like Maxspect and Reef Octopus provide a warranty for their products? The reason is simple, legitimate companies support their products, their name means something, illegitimate companies just want the money, and care nothing about the product they are selling.

In short it is a coin toss, you may get a batch of pumps that work, or you may get a batch that doesn't. Given the number of people who have had failures it is really hard to claim this is a quality product. You may get lucky or you may not. The failure rate is just too high for those who take this hobby and the creatures in their care serioisly to accept. If you take the time to look at the equipment found in TOTM's you will see a trend, there is a reason for that. Long term means making choices for the long term, even a used high quality piece of equipment is a better investment than a cheaply made piece of equipment.

Hopefully that makes sense to at least some people.

Mostly the poorly made products, if read the post you quoted you will see where I noted there are legitimate Chinese companies making a decent product, if you did not catch that, then I am sorry. Most of the equipment on my tank is from a foreign market, that was also shown in the post you quoted? :wave:

Update: You have a bias against Chinese products. Specifically, Jaebo.

Anything that turns out to work the way you want it gets put onto your goodie list. Everything else is garbage.

But it's ok. Everyone needs a scapegoat.

 

[sirreal63]

I dislike any company that pushes poorly made products to unsuspecting hobbyists, this does include Jebao, Oddysea, Jebo, Boyu and the rest that sell sub par products. I personally prefer to not buy Chinese products, and ere are numerous reasons for that. My biggest bias against Jebao is the fact that they incentivize people for shilling for them on these forums. If you do not understand why that is bad, then I cannot help you.

 

[Bryopsis]

I dislike any company that pushes poorly made products to unsuspecting hobbyists, this does include Jebao, Oddysea, Jebo, Boyu and the rest that sell sub par products. I personally prefer to not buy Chinese products, and ere are numerous reasons for that. My biggest bias against Jebao is the fact that they incentivize people for shilling for them on these forums. If you do not understand why that is bad, then I cannot help you.

So you state earlier you have never purchased vortechs... I assume by the negativity you've never purchased jebao's? (specifically jebao, not a general chinese pump)


Usually people call judgements or experiences based on experience, so there is none here specifically with the jebao. Which I've had a very positive experience with so far, so I can speak from experience.

If you enjoy helping people in the hobby and sharing your experiences, do so.
But please do not comment so broadly on things like "chinese" crap, if you've never even used it. It's far from crap in my opinion and so called "wisdom" like you've displayed here is most unwelcome to those who don't WANT to spend 400$ on a powerhead.

I mean this with the utmost respect, but keeping an open mind and a level head, you have not even tried either product, so what are you doing here passing judgment off as wisdom?

I will NEVER pass judgment on a product because it's made in a certain country. There's plenty of downright crap here in the USA but that doesn't mean every company is the same.

 

[sirreal63]

You really do not get it do you? Reading is easy, comprehension requires more. Please try understanding what I have written, I have said it numerous times in this thread. If you have to read it 20 times, then please do so. If you still cannot comprehend, then that is out of my hands.

 

[Bryopsis]

Apologies, you've used a jebao then?

 

[geckoejon]

i have a single wp25 on my 75g and it rocks! i've had mine 6 months and my neighbor has had a pair going for over a year. all of my torches and such get a great pulsing flow to them. i also have a koralia in the 75g for extra flow, but the wp25 is great for the pulsing action. i have had zero issues with it other than cleaning every month. i would got with the jaebos all the way...

It seems like 9/10 people that talk about having Jebaos also talk about having problems within the first year.

really??? where are you getting your facts from? i have read / heard many success stories and a few that didn't turn out well. you will have that with anything though.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2283598&highlight=jeabo

how many people have you known that have had to replace the wet side on a mp??? for that price, you can buy another wp

would you consider mp's a failure because many people have to replace the wet side on them???

some people just like to talk smack because they thing their high dollar equipment is the only way to go. personally, i go for the best bang for the buck with the best results. jaebo are far less expensive, you get the same results, and get a warranty with them.