Vandalism

I too just read that on Ocean Lifes FB page. What the heck is going on with people? Why do people feel the need to ruin others stuff? It makes no sense to me honestly.
 
I stopped in at Ocean Lifes today and it looked like they were doing a major system replacement or downsizing. after reading this thread it now makes sense. Hope they catch the bastard or bastards and throw the book at them.
 
I've spoken with Terry at length about this. They were hit on Black Friday. From the sounds of their posts, I"m not sure if they are stripping everything and starting over or if they got hit again. Whatever was put in both of our systems is long lasting. I"m still fighting algaes as a result of what appears to be fertilizer pellets dumped into my fw vat back in September, despite switching out all live rock and water and boatloads of GFO. Terry was struggling with off the charts phosphate, too. One of my service customers seems to have taken the brunt of it as their tank still has 6.2 ppm phosphate after 4 50% w/c's. I assume they got a jug of water that had several pellets sucked up by the mixing pump and since they are a monthly account, they get larger w/c's than our weekly's get and therefore greater effect. I had to dilute their water sample 10x to get a reading on my photometer!

Now, the upshot. I have been working behind the scenes with a detective from Pasco SO who works a different department than would investigate our issues. He is a hobbyist and had seen this thread when it first posted. He came and introduced himself to me as a detective and offered help if we came up with proof of whodunnit. Fertilizer pellets are not evidence without a perp, although mine are saved for analysis if need be. We are fairly certain that it is 1 or 2 specific customers and have been circulating photos between several LFS owners to get the word out. The detective already knew who both suspects are from his travels to various LFS. I'm posting this in hopes that the perpetrators see this and get scared into knocking it off. They are facing several felonies if caught. Most of us have fine tuned our surveylance systems, so we are ready if they return - maybe not to stop them, but they will be caught if they return.

Again, I'd like to reiterate that we are not allowed to post speculation about who it is. If you are an LFS owner and would like this information, feel free to contact me outside this forum. Just stay vigilant at your favorite stores and report any suspicious activity to management immediately. It doesn't take much of the substances these people are using to ruin a system and they are not immediately obvious like bleach or ammonia. Fertilizer pellets have been used in three different stores, but Ocean Prime was hit with 3 different substances.

Info from OL and OP retold with permission from both owners
 
Seriously..... Between people stealing from tanks and now sabotaging them..... Really. Is reefing THAT bad that we need to hire bouncers at the front door to check pockets. I know Terry is doing everything in his power to get this fixed and move forward. Its just a shame!!
Nate...
 
If you have probably cause - can't the police go to a judge and get a search warrant for the perp? I mean - they probably still have the stuff in their house if they are doing this at multiple stores!
 
Ted_C said:
If you have probably cause - can't the police go to a judge and get a search warrant for the perp? I mean - they probably still have the stuff in their house if they are doing this at multiple stores!
Click to expand...

Who DOESN'T have bleach, ammonia or some fertilizer at their house though?
 
Unfortunately this kind of thing has been going on around here for years. I remember Exotic Aquatics got poisoned in their old location in maybe 2000? Florida is a weird place.
 
I wish octopus would develop a skimmer for the population!,,,lol.

Which someone stated earlier!!! Between amazon and bozos like this The LFS have a hard road!!!

Support your local fish store!!!! Buy local not big box!!!

Spend a few bucks more or the pet superstore is all you will see in a few years!!!
 
Who DOESN'T have bleach, ammonia or some fertilizer at their house though?
Click to expand...

We aren't talking about bleach: The amount you'd have to use with consideration for their total system volume cannot be handled in a clandenstine manner (i.e. you can't bring a gallon of bleach into a store and not raise suspicions).

We aren't talking about Ammonia either (and I dont have straight ammonia in my house - just windex): again - the amount needed to overcome their filters would be alot. Even if you had a big gulp cup - i dont think that'd be enough. Ammonia would cause an immediate die off of the fish as well - which isn't what we are talking about.

Fertilizer: I dont keep it. But this is the point - there are any number of brands on the market - each with their own formulations. Get a search warrant - find the fertilizer - use forensic chemistry to compare the perp's fertilizer to the samples collected at the scene. Add in some circumstantial evidence and you have your felony conviction.

It sounds like the perps didn't need a whole bunch of whatever they used to cause problems - which makes me think it's a pretty potent (and unique) form of fertilizer.
 
Ted_C said:
We aren't talking about bleach: The amount you'd have to use with consideration for their total system volume cannot be handled in a clandenstine manner (i.e. you can't bring a gallon of bleach into a store and not raise suspicions).

We aren't talking about Ammonia either (and I dont have straight ammonia in my house - just windex): again - the amount needed to overcome their filters would be alot. Even if you had a big gulp cup - i dont think that'd be enough. Ammonia would cause an immediate die off of the fish as well - which isn't what we are talking about.

Fertilizer: I dont keep it. But this is the point - there are any number of brands on the market - each with their own formulations. Get a search warrant - find the fertilizer - use forensic chemistry to compare the perp's fertilizer to the samples collected at the scene. Add in some circumstantial evidence and you have your felony conviction.

It sounds like the perps didn't need a whole bunch of whatever they used to cause problems - which makes me think it's a pretty potent (and unique) form of fertilizer.
Click to expand...

I think the video evidence is going to be more important than the fertilizer or whatever it is. If it's a relatively common fertilizer it will be pretty weak circumstantial evidence unless the suspect is arrested in their car with it leaving the store.
 
dc said:
Ted, you obviously don't shop at Costco. ;)
Click to expand...

Lol

I was going to say I have bleach, ammonia, and bags of fertilizer.

Well u normally make very thought out posts Ted. You must be very distort as we all are but I don't think u have anything there. Fertilizers are all very common and can be found in to many stores around the country. There would be no way to convict someone because they have the same fertilizer in there garage. You are talking about literally millions of bags sold yearly. Not only that water is what activates fertilizers on your lawn. They start to break down very fast when wet.

I would love to see these people hang but really I think the only way will be with video catching them.

I hope all stores have been able to improve there video systems to catch these guys.

To use ur idea Ted. u could do this but u would need to catch the guys in the store with fertilizer on them. then u got something. IMO but I'm not a cop or lawyer :)

Hope they catch them soon.

Roger
 
TampaSnooker said:
I've spoken with Terry at length about this. They were hit on Black Friday. From the sounds of their posts, I"m not sure if they are stripping everything and starting over or if they got hit again. Whatever was put in both of our systems is long lasting. I"m still fighting algaes as a result of what appears to be fertilizer pellets dumped into my fw vat back in September, despite switching out all live rock and water and boatloads of GFO. Terry was struggling with off the charts phosphate, too. One of my service customers seems to have taken the brunt of it as their tank still has 6.2 ppm phosphate after 4 50% w/c's. I assume they got a jug of water that had several pellets sucked up by the mixing pump and since they are a monthly account, they get larger w/c's than our weekly's get and therefore greater effect. I had to dilute their water sample 10x to get a reading on my photometer!

Now, the upshot. I have been working behind the scenes with a detective from Pasco SO who works a different department than would investigate our issues. He is a hobbyist and had seen this thread when it first posted. He came and introduced himself to me as a detective and offered help if we came up with proof of whodunnit. Fertilizer pellets are not evidence without a perp, although mine are saved for analysis if need be. We are fairly certain that it is 1 or 2 specific customers and have been circulating photos between several LFS owners to get the word out. The detective already knew who both suspects are from his travels to various LFS. I'm posting this in hopes that the perpetrators see this and get scared into knocking it off. They are facing several felonies if caught. Most of us have fine tuned our surveylance systems, so we are ready if they return - maybe not to stop them, but they will be caught if they return.

Again, I'd like to reiterate that we are not allowed to post speculation about who it is. If you are an LFS owner and would like this information, feel free to contact me outside this forum. Just stay vigilant at your favorite stores and report any suspicious activity to management immediately. It doesn't take much of the substances these people are using to ruin a system and they are not immediately obvious like bleach or ammonia. Fertilizer pellets have been used in three different stores, but Ocean Prime was hit with 3 different substances.

Info from OL and OP retold with permission from both owners
Click to expand...


I missed this post till now. Glad u may be making some progress. Well what kind of penalty /time in jail will they be facing Doug?

What ever it is. It is not long enough.

Roger
 
I used to work at a place that did forensic chemistry - mostly gunshot residue analysis but we also had a fair share of arson and other chemical stuff - RJ Lee Group in Monroeville PA.

You'd be suprised what forensic chemistry can do - even with a degraded sample.
 
Ted - I still have the remnants that I collected from my fw vat. If you can do anything with them in terms of analysis, I'd be happy to share my sample with you. Roger and others are right and Detective Dan agrees - I have no evidence at this point. Everyone with a garden of any sort has fertilizer. Even Debi...

Now if this is some blend formulated for rare Orchids or Cannabis (more likely, given the level to which they stooped...) then you have a better case as the product is less common, but Miracle Grow is in all of our garden sheds. Even if I did pinpoint it to a rarer formulation, it's still not proof. I know I have MG, palm, rose and a few other fertilizers in my shed here. Unfortunately, my sample was severely degraded by the time I found it. I can see if OPC saved their samples, but it does little good for a substance that is available at any garden center.
 
Sorry - I don't do that anymore - so not much I can do or help I can provide.

Analyzing now wouldn't provide any benefit and only cost you more out of pocket expenses. That's not where I was trying to go with this. Even if it were some unique fertilizer - it's not going to help you catch anyone - as the sales side is not tracked.

What I'm trying to say is - if your at least 80% confident its these two people - provide your reasons of confidence to the police - have the police execute a search warrant - collect evidence from their places - then use forensics to build an even better case.
 
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