Vectra/Apex confirmation

[Joeb1983]

Seems like they are avoiding answering this question like the plague...

 

[fcmatt]

I am a bit confused. Why doesn't N*ptune just reverse engineer the pump and figure out how to control it and not wait for ecotech? The interface to the pump cannot be terribly complicated. How is it much different then a MP40?

Just curious. I do not know all the details.

 

[Breadman03]

Ecotech's software is legally protected. Neptune could certainly hack their software, but doing so would create legal issues as well as damage their reputation as a company.

I looked at the situation and spoke with both companies at MACNA 2015. From what was said and what was not said, I bought a Red Dragon pump.

 

[Joeb1983]

I've read countless forums and threads in regards to this and I have it yet to this day seen a direct reply from ecotech.

If I place the Vectra in feed mode via the controller, it also initiates feed mode on my MP40's w/ "upgraded" QD drivers.

If I initiate feed mode via my MP40's the Vectra is not effected however and remains at speed.

That's the main reason why I would like Apex controlabilty...

Obviously, I can turn the Vectra on/off via the relayed outlet, but we know how turning your return pump off goes. (I like the slow flow feed mode)

Anyways, not the end of the world by any means, but I would like to hear from ecotech even if it's "it will never be controlled via WXM" just so I/we know.

Just like Breadman03, many have opted to purchase a different pump over the Vectra for this simple reason alone.

All in all I am happy with my Vectra and am thankful I was lucky enough to not get a loud or hot one like others unfortunately have.

I sent them an email as well in regards to this, but no reply to date.

Maybe I will call and see if I can get an answer tomorrow...

 

[chercm]

I've read countless forums and threads in regards to this and I have it yet to this day seen a direct reply from ecotech.

If I place the Vectra in feed mode via the controller, it also initiates feed mode on my MP40's w/ "upgraded" QD drivers.

If I initiate feed mode via my MP40's the Vectra is not effected however and remains at speed.

That's the main reason why I would like Apex controlabilty...

Obviously, I can turn the Vectra on/off via the relayed outlet, but we know how turning your return pump off goes. (I like the slow flow feed mode)

Anyways, not the end of the world by any means, but I would like to hear from ecotech even if it's "it will never be controlled via WXM" just so I/we know.

Just like Breadman03, many have opted to purchase a different pump over the Vectra for this simple reason alone.

All in all I am happy with my Vectra and am thankful I was lucky enough to not get a loud or hot one like others unfortunately have.

I sent them an email as well in regards to this, but no reply to date.

Maybe I will call and see if I can get an answer tomorrow...

thanks for helping but i would think they are going to play kicking ball again .

 

[Joeb1983]

Alex Y?

 

[Joeb1983]

Came across this from RandoReefer:



" Say, for example, you owned a cake bakery and had a unique flour to make your cakes.

You agreed to share that special flour with a bread bakery down the street.

It doesn't affect your personal market, because you aren't baking bread.

Then you find out that the bread bakery just released its own line of cakes...still using the same flour you gave them.

Now that the bread bakery is in your market, would you still give them the flour? "



Made a valid point...

 

[filbie70]

Ecotech is limiting themselves on this subject. People aren't going to stop buying Apex as a result of not integrating. But, as seen in these posts, there are some that aren't going to buy the Vectra if it doesn't link. I have my Vortech and Radion on my Apex. My L1 is programmed by my reeflink and I'm missing the functionality on the storm settings on my Vectra. I would hope Ecotech considers they need to include the Vectra until they are in a better position with another partnership in the future like the Cerebra. In the meantime, they are affecting their own sales of the Vectra and our Ecotech loyalty as the customer is getting hurt by this not Neptune Systems.

 

[ThurlowR]

EcoTech Marine Vectra, New AI Hydra HD, and AI Prime Lights, and 3rd Party integration in general
OK, there has been a lot of misunderstanding and misinformation on various forums regarding this topic. The time has come to bring some clarity, straight from Neptune Systems.

Apex Ready is a standard we created by which, through various means, we have created a path for interactivity between our Apex System and many other aquarium products on the market. There are basically four different methods to get that interactivity:

- 0-10V control - we did not invent this, but it is a reliable standard. When a company makes their products compatible with this for variable speed pumps, dimming of lights, etc. and then submits for official Apex Ready certification we test these products to confirm their adapters work as they should to make it easy on the customers and that the device does what it should.

- Digital RS-232 control via VDM port - This is at this time only for lighting control, but it is not limited only to that. At the moment the original AI-Sol lights, the lights from Acan Lighting, and those from ZetLight conform to this standard. In addition to multi-channel dimming, clouds and lightning effects can be implemented.

- AWM - AI Wireless control Module - Due to the popularity of the AI Sol Lights in the past, we spent the engineering time and dollars and worked with AI to develop a module for controlling the Hydra lights when they came out. AI is now abandoning this type of control with their new lights and following the Prime by having on board WiFi. We are currently trying to work with them to control these new lights with the Apex. This would cost us engineering time and money and since it will not require a module to make this feature work, there will not be any revenue to off-set that work. We know it is important for our users to be able to control all of the major products out there and we are committed to that. For now, the ball is in their court to provide us with the information necessary to make that happen for our users.

- WXM - EcoTech Wireless Module - This was originally developed by us to operate the VorTech pumps and was later expanded to work with the Radion lights as well. In terms of the Vectra, and as was stated in other threads by myself, we have discussed the enabling of control of the Vectra with EcoTech Marine at MACNA and are awaiting them making the necessary small changes to make that happen for our users. Once they do that we will immediately work to make that surfaced in the Apex via a firmware update so that our users with WXM (or those that want to buy one) can control all their EcoTech products (as well as other companies products) from one interface.

I would like to make it extremely crystal clear that Neptune Systems is committed to providing aquarium owners what they have asked for (89% in a recent RB survey) - a single place from which to control all their aquarium gear. This does not mean that they would not have point solutions from various manufacturers, but rather that their Apex continues to be their universal remote control and monitoring interface.

One of the things that makes it hard to give customers complete control is that many times smaller manufacturers do not have the volume of sales that allow us to do custom work like the modules above in order to get connected to the Apex. We just cannot expend that much Engineering time and cost. This is where standards come in. At this point, we see WiFi (802.11) as the winning method for connectivity in products that are now coming to market.

To that end I announced at MACNA a new initiative for Neptune Systems. That is, a universal standard we coining IoA or Internet of Aquariums. With this standard, now even the smallest, newest lighting, pump or other product manufacturer can come to market with a product that is immediately Apex Ready right out of the box. We are currently working on that standard with a couple of manufacturers and will be announcing more on this at a later date.

So, once again to summarize and bring it back relative to this thread and the comments here thus far:

1. We are ready to do the Vectra support as soon as it is enabled in the Vectra driver.

2. We are committed as a company to continue to provide support for the control of 3rd party products and expanding that more than ever before.

3. The fact that we have products ourselves that may compete with some of those same 3rd party products is not an issue. As an example, Apple competes with Logitech with their mouse. They now compete with many companies with the release of their "pencil". But they still provide a way for all of those products to work. This is our model going forward.

I will try and answer your questions as completely as possible, but please understand that many questions cannot be answered to their fullest if they dig too deeply into future product plans or direction..

From our side we are still waiting. We have made contact to ETM numerous times on this effort. As I have said before, we are ready to do what it takes support the Vectra via the WXM. It would likely not take much engineering-wise from either us or ETM to make it happen. We are committed to giving to our customers the widest capability of control with their Apex.

Unfortunately at this point we have not been given any assurances that they will ever enable the support of the Vectra via the WXM.

If you are in the market for a return pump, and control via your Apex is a key factor, at this point you might want to look at other manufacturers (with 0-10V support for instance) or wait until we release the COR.

Above is from Neptune on the subject that I found interesting.

 

[1jwampler]

Vectra/Apex confirmation

Came across this from RandoReefer:







" Say, for example, you owned a cake bakery and had a unique flour to make your cakes.



You agreed to share that special flour with a bread bakery down the street.



It doesn't affect your personal market, because you aren't baking bread.



Then you find out that the bread bakery just released its own line of cakes...still using the same flour you gave them.



Now that the bread bakery is in your market, would you still give them the flour? "







Made a valid point...

This is a valid point for other scenarios, but I don't think for this one. I don't see Neptune using wireless in their pumps, and honestly I don't like wireless.

IMHO the Ecotech MP powerheads are built much better than the WAVs. However, instead of a wire to the pump from the controller and wireless controller Neptune just uses the one smaller wire to do both. If either company made a pump the quality of Ecotech, the single wire of Neptune it would be a winner in my book.

So I don't think in this case it's fair to say Neptune is using Ecotech "flour" to enhance their pump since the flour is wireless and the WAVs are wired.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Breadman03]

Above is from Neptune on the subject that I found interesting.

I probably stated this earlier in the thread, but at MACNA 2015 I spoke with both companies and asked quite a few questions. From what was said and what was NOT said, I believe that ETM won't be opening up WXM control for the Vectra.

I saw a recent flyer for the Radion Gen 4 and got excited for a few seconds...then began to wonder if it will be compatible with WXM.

 

[worm5406]

Well tonight my dc12000 died. My other one died about 2 months ago.

I contacted my LFS and they called me after hours. Talked me into the Vectra. So after work tomorrow I will pick up two of them.

I hope they work out and lead an industry standard together.

 

[thetedinator]

Well tonight my dc12000 died. My other one died about 2 months ago.

I contacted my LFS and they called me after hours. Talked me into the Vectra. So after work tomorrow I will pick up two of them.

I hope they work out and lead an industry standard together.

NOT Compatible.

I bought the L1 assuming compatibility would come. I was wrong. Do not buy a Vectra if you are looking for control from the APEX like you get with the EcoTech Vortex pumps.

 

[worm5406]

I know... I also have a reeflink. I do hate two apps.

I also have a 265 build coming up, and I can put those (which ever is better) on the other system as time comes up. I will also need a pump(s) for frag setup and mixing 200g of SW and pumping a separate 200g of RODI.

 

[125mph]

Interesting.. I was thinking about getting a Vectra M1 for my new build return pump... thought it was compatible with Apex.. Find out its not and never will be???

Ouch, guess going a different route.

 

[ca1ore]

I will tell you that the Vectra is a superb pump. It irritated me to have to buy a reeflink, but I did, programmed the pump and haven't touched it since. I thought about waiting for the COR, but I bought my Vectra over a year ago ..... still no COR!

 

[jduck]

Interesting.. I was thinking about getting a Vectra M1 for my new build return pump... thought it was compatible with Apex.. Find out its not and never will be???

Ouch, guess going a different route.

Unless your using it for a closed loop. No reason to adjust the flow with a controller. Set and forger

 

[worm5406]

Unless your using it for a closed loop. No reason to adjust the flow with a controller. Set and forger

True and if you are using it for a CL, then you would have probably already set the programing up to match your lights or other schedule. Again, no need to hook to the apex.

But I wish I could set the feed mode on apex and have it switch.

Since the vortech heads and prob the vertex heads listen all the time for feed mode, I wonder if they can set the apex WXM module to just broadcast feed mode and then it would go to the feed mode setting/power. That i programmed up when I was setting it up.

 

[ca1ore]

I am using my Vectra on a CL, and the driver buttons were not flexible enough for me to get the flow variations I was looking for - thus the reeflink.

 

[125mph]

Unless your using it for a closed loop. No reason to adjust the flow with a controller. Set and forger

For that kind of money on a return pump, I'd like to see feed mode implemented through my apex so I don't have to hit two buttons, and various other programming capabilities through apex. If all I can do to control is to shut off the power via APEX, and just use the Vectra as a constant mode pump, I might as well pay 1/3 the price for a eheim or sicce pump.

That's my reasoning anyway.