Klaus Jansen
.Registered Member
The Partnership between Royal-Exclusiv and Vertex is ending 2013. I dont think, it´s a original Red Dragon. Maybe second Hand or used Red Dragon ?
best regards ...Klaus
Vertex Skimmer club
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
The Partnership between Royal-Exclusiv and Vertex is ending 2013. I dont think, it´s a original Red Dragon. Maybe second Hand or used Red Dragon ?
best regards ...Klaus
redddogg69
New member
Red Dragon is no more than a sticker on an askoll motor block. So that would be partly right in that the Vertex Alpha series (and Omega 200i) use an askoll motor block just like the Royal Exclusive Red Dragon branded pumps, which are for all intents and purposes identical between the two brands.
slief
RC Sponsor
That is actually a bit incorrect. Royal Exclusiv has internal changes done to the block by Askoll before it comes in from Askoll. It's not just the power cord length. Then there are the rotors which are different than the Vertex ones, the volutes are different as well. Royal CNCs their volutes in Germany and the volutes are different than those used by Vertex. Granted, Vertex has copied them but they still aren't the same. Royal also use a different needle wheel than the Vertex though the Vertex may be a clone of that used by Royal. Then there is the Anti Lime Bypass used on many of the Red Dragons which you will not find on any of the Vertex pumps.
redddogg69
New member
I've owned all the iterations mentioned here BK branded skimmers, Alpha made by RE and the Vertex Alpha, with all the included pumps. The pump heads and impellers are identical. I can't say on the internal changes reported to be made by askoll during manufacturing. As for the Anti lime line that runs from the pumphead to the block, I took one apart one time out of curiosity and found that line dead head into the resin of the pump. I know there is quite alot of D!*k measuring between the two companies, so i wouldn't expect representatives from either company to confirm any similarities apart from accusing the other of cloning. Both are great skimmers, but the pumps are damn close to the same no matter what way you cut it.
slief
RC Sponsor
I’ve owned the Alphas and the Bubble Kings too. Infact, if you look at my history, you will see that I owned an Alpha 300 and have been helping Alpha owners long before I started working with Royal Exclusiv. I bought my Alpha 300 when they were first released. I’ve also owned a BK Mini 160 and other BK’s and now own a Supermarin 250 which I bought from Premium Aquatics. Royal Exclusiv made the Alphas for Vertex and included the RE made Red Dragon pumps with them (as you are aware) so yes, the pump heads and impellers were the same. Key word being were. They no longer make the skimmers for Vertex nor do they build the pumps for the Vertex Alphas anymore as you are also aware of. The pumps volutes and impellers are now made “elsewhere” but yes, they are still very similar and the untrained eye wouldn’t know the difference unless you had the two pumps side by side and even then, the differences are subtle.
As for the AKB, you are absolutely, positively, without a shadow of a doubt mistaken. I’ve taken enough apart myself and having owned bubble kings long before I got involved with Royal to know better. I also handle support for RE but I also have no reason to lie. The AKB goes into the magnet cavity and sends water from the pressure side across the magnet. On the Small Block Askoll motors, it goes into the back of the block behind the bearing and on the big block Askolls, it goes in through the side of the block. The ONLY way to verify that would be to look into the small block from the magnet cavity to see the small hole behind the bearing and on the big blocks you would need a small mirror that you could slip into the magnet cavity to see the hole where the pressure side goes into the block behind and below white sleeve. That or you would have to break the AKB connection off from the outside. Either way, I can assure you, it’s not smoke and mirrors and it does serve a purpose. It was also NEVER included on the Red Dragon 1500’s that were included with the Alphas. I can’t speak of the Red Dragon motors that had the Pro Line Aquatics label as I personally have no idea whether Proline sourced those motors from RE or directly from Askoll as that was before my time. Beyond that, you are correct, the pumps are “damn similar”. There are some minor differences in the motors themselves as delivered by Askoll that differentiate themselves from the standard Askolls and then some minor differences between the volutes on the Royal Exclsuiv made Red Dragons vs the now Vertex made skimmer pumps that use Askoll based motors.
Also keep in mind that I’ve have helped countless Vertex Alpha owners over the years and even the current Alpha owners who buy the latest Alphas that happen to be on this forum as well as those elsewhere frequently come to me for help with the Vertex made Alphas because I know those skimmers inside and out. RE also gets calls and emails on them. Then there is the fact that many people think that RE still makes them for Vertex so inadvertently, we often become the first to receive the support inquires whether it’s in warranty or out of warranty problem. As such, I am intimately familiar with the differences between not only the pumps but also the bodies. And for the record, I have nothing against Vertex. I own some Vertex equipement myself. Heck, I even bought into the Cerebra to see what all the hype was about. I am also a fan of ANY Askoll based pump whether it’s made by Vertex, ATB, Fluval etc. Infact, I recommend Fluval pumps all the time here and elsewhere because it’s uses one of the best AC based blocks of it’s type (Askoll) and makes for a great pump regardless of whose label or volute is on it.
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gcarroll
Active member
Vertex Skimmer club
There is absolutely no difference between the 1500 Askoll motor used by Vertex and Royal Exclusiv.
Royal Exclusiv originally made the Alpha skimmers for Vertex. Once RE stopped, Vertex took over production. The only thing that changed with the pumps is who was milling the volute and needle wheel. The design remained the same.
At Reefapalooza NY, I recently got to see a RE built Vertex Alpha vs a Vertex built Alpha. There is no comparison. The Vertex built Alpha is way nicer. Far thicker material and better fit and finish. It was almost as if when RE was building them, compromises were made to keep the price down. When Vertex took over, those compromises were no longer made. IMO, it was a great move for Vertex!
There is absolutely no difference between the 1500 Askoll motor used by Vertex and Royal Exclusiv.
Royal Exclusiv originally made the Alpha skimmers for Vertex. Once RE stopped, Vertex took over production. The only thing that changed with the pumps is who was milling the volute and needle wheel. The design remained the same.
At Reefapalooza NY, I recently got to see a RE built Vertex Alpha vs a Vertex built Alpha. There is no comparison. The Vertex built Alpha is way nicer. Far thicker material and better fit and finish. It was almost as if when RE was building them, compromises were made to keep the price down. When Vertex took over, those compromises were no longer made. IMO, it was a great move for Vertex!
So this is about two days after putting the skimmer in the sump. No break in, no fiddling etc. I put it in the sump, no stand, water height about 8 3/4", opened up the volute a little, set it to break bubbles about where the collection cup attaches and that is all. My tank went without a skimmer for two days and previously my skimmer was fairly under sized for my tank so maybe there's just a fair amount of stuff in my water column. Even so my nitrates are always under 5 so it can't be too bad.
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powdertang05
New member
I purchased a vertex omega 180i skimmer and I want to use ozone. I cant find anywhere how much milligram wise i can use.
drjuice28
New member
Vertex owners, I just received and set up an alpha 300. I’ve got it in 9 inches of rodi in a tub, turned on, and getting zero microbibbles from either pump?! The air intake is connected per routine, no ozone line, both pumps seem to be flowing OK, though never had one before to compare the output. No difference adjusting the white water intake nozzles. What could I be missing?? Or could I really have two dud pumps out of the box?
redddogg69
New member
Put it in saltwater if you haven't already and all will be well. Freshwater does not foam like salt.
Duality
New member
heritage
Active member
Out of business
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