Vinegar in Kalk, who's doing it?

[cardiffgiant]

I started adding some vinegar to my kalk about 4 weeks ago to add carbon source. I was trying to boost my feeding while battling a cyano problem on my sand bed and keeping my NO3 and PO4 at desirable levels. Mission accomplished, but I noticed that I've needed to dial my my two part way back. I was dosing 70ml alk and 60ml ca. Now I'm down to about 60ml alk and 45ml ca.

A lot of the information that I had read about using vinegar in kalk regarded using it to get better saturation, but there also a lot of debate as to how effective it was.

I started at 50ml per 5 gallons of ATO with 8tbs of kalk. I gradually brought the level up to 225ml of vinegar.

Does anyone else add vinegar to kalk?

 

[Gravesj1s]

I started adding some vinegar to my kalk about 4 weeks ago to add carbon source. I was trying to boost my feeding while battling a cyano problem on my sand bed and keeping my NO3 and PO4 at desirable levels. Mission accomplished, but I noticed that I've needed to dial my my two part way back. I was dosing 70ml alk and 60ml ca. Now I'm down to about 60ml alk and 45ml ca.

A lot of the information that I had read about using vinegar in kalk regarded using it to get better saturation, but there also a lot of debate as to how effective it was.

I started at 50ml per 5 gallons of ATO with 8tbs of kalk. I gradually brought the level up to 225ml of vinegar.

Does anyone else add vinegar to kalk?

I haven't used it as of yet.Iam planning to star though. Im having a difficult time locating a dosing recipe. I see theirs alot out their on vodka but I dont want to use that.The only thing I can remeber reading is years ago from craig bingman.
How did you come up with the initial dosing ratio?
thanks -grav

 

[jfl14609]

I have heard of people doing it but personally never tried maybe henry will chime in

 

[Piazzon12]

I did it for a while, and then stopped (the vinegar part). Now just plain kalk. Is 225ml of vinegar a rather large carbon addition for that time frame?
I'm now low dosing vodka 1.5ml/day on the side.
Nice little blog about kalk ATO (but no vinegar mention)
http://reefcentral.com/forums/blog.php?b=107

 

[Gravesj1s]

I did it for a while, and then stopped (the vinegar part). Now just plain kalk. Is 225ml of vinegar a rather large carbon addition for that time frame?
I'm now low dosing vodka 1.5ml/day on the side.
Nice little blog about kalk ATO (but no vinegar mention)
http://reefcentral.com/forums/blog.php?b=107

I was thinking the same thing. 225ml seems pretty high but Im not sure.I know Craig Bingman initialy wrote of a vinegar dosing regime ,it was in another aquarium publication,of course I cant find it now.

Hmmmm, anyone else tread in this?

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I did it for a few years on a 55 I had, but that was a few years before the whole carbon dosing craze, so I can't really comment on that aspect. I was doing it to get more Ca and alk in the tank. I stopped when I increased the lighting and ventilation on the tank, because evaporation went up. It was effective for my purposes, but I don't remember the dosage I used.

Might want to ask in the Reef Chemistry forum if you haven't tried that yet.

 

[cardiffgiant]

The following are some of the links that I read. The maximum recommended not to exceed 15ml of vinegar per liter of kalk (which would be about 285ml per 5 gallon vessel).

http://www.reefscapes.net/articles/breefcase/kalkwasser.html
http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=78463

I'm noticing that my Ca is creeping above desired levels (475), and that there is very little slurry in the bottom of my ATO vessels. I have also noticed a sunset monti, an acro, and my german blue digi look a lot lighter than they did. My Alk has been steady at 9.3.

I reduced my Ca dose from my two part again. Then I dropped the vinegar in the kalk by 1/3 in my most recent mix to 150ml. I'm going to keep my on things and continue to test frequently, and adjust accordingly.

 

[ggdowski]

I'm planning on using Kalk in combo with Recipe #2 from BRS.
That is supposed to help bring PH down a bit as it goes up due to Kalk.
My read on this is that you should be able to back off significantly on your two part solution.

I've been tweaking what components I wanted to use for my ATO system. I have all the parts... just not the time to put it together (like the rest of my DIY projects). That is why I was thinking of having my class build them for a lab.

 

[Piazzon12]

I believe you may want to research carbon dosing a little more to see how much vinegar you would want to add (regardless of kalk). IE if you were only dosing vinegar for the benefit of a carbon source. I believe SPS may become pale/pastel due to reduced nutrients and is sometimes a result of carbon dosing.

 

[Gravesj1s]

The following are some of the links that I read. The maximum recommended not to exceed 15ml of vinegar per liter of kalk (which would be about 285ml per 5 gallon vessel).

http://www.reefscapes.net/articles/breefcase/kalkwasser.html
http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=78463

I'm noticing that my Ca is creeping above desired levels (475), and that there is very little slurry in the bottom of my ATO vessels. I have also noticed a sunset monti, an acro, and my german blue digi look a lot lighter than they did. My Alk has been steady at 9.3.

I reduced my Ca dose from my two part again. Then I dropped the vinegar in the kalk by 1/3 in my most recent mix to 150ml. I'm going to keep my on things and continue to test frequently, and adjust accordingly.

The links you posted are so far the best info. I have come across.thanks-Graves

 

[Gravesj1s]

I have a small reseivor that I fill weekly-ish it holds about 15 gallons of ro topoff. It is then pumped via an aqualifter pump into a kalkreactor whitch levels off the sump. My question is for those dosing do you add vinegar manually everyday or would it alright to add the figured ratio to my reseivor?
-Graves

 

[cardiffgiant]

I have a small reseivor that I fill weekly-ish it holds about 15 gallons of ro topoff. It is then pumped via an aqualifter pump into a kalkreactor whitch levels off the sump. My question is for those dosing do you add vinegar manually everyday or would it alright to add the figured ratio to my reseivor?
-Graves

I just read a thread in the chemistry forum the other day in which it was noted that if the vinegar sits in a vessel with freshwater you will get an algae bloom in the top off water, and that both the algae bloom and impact to CO2 could be less predictable with each batch of ATO than when it is mixed directly with kalkwasser. I wish that threads didn't fall off of the chemistry forum after 2 pages.

This was one of the first links that I read on the topic. It took me a while to find it.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15912606

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I wish that threads didn't fall off of the chemistry forum after 2 pages.

You may already know this, but just as an FYI - look at the bottom of the page, near the lefthand side, when you're viewing any of the forums. There's a dropdown box titled "From the" with choices like "Last Month" and "Last Day." If you bump that up to something really long, you'll get more pages of history before it drops threads off.

FWIW, I leave mine set at "Last month" most of the time.

 

[cardiffgiant]

Hilarious! Thank you so much for assuming that I had not missed something so obvious! :lolspin: I can't believe that I've never noticed that.

(now that I am looking back far enough)

Here is the thread talking about vinegar and kalk reactors:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1780098

Here is a nice read on some of the benefits of each type of carbon source and some discussion about dosing schedules.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1779318

 

[Gravesj1s]

Hilarious! Thank you so much for assuming that I had not missed something so obvious! :lolspin: I can't believe that I've never noticed that.

(now that I am looking back far enough)

Here is the thread talking about vinegar and kalk reactors:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1780098

Here is a nice read on some of the benefits of each type of carbon source and some discussion about dosing schedules.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1779318

Thanks guys, stared dosing today.
In my case,I taught my 6 year old daughter to feed the fish.Bad mistake when you leave a can of dry flake on the lower shelf.I rarely use the flake food so I didn't notice she had been feeding over the course of 1 month she fed an entire can.I couldn't figure out why I was getting alage like crazy.
Well her defense is "I didn't ask her if she was feeding the fish".It makes sens to me now on how the fish would react to her just approaching the tank.

-Graves

 

[Gravesj1s]

Ok,update.

Its day 3 into my vinegar dosing trial. First day I noticed skimmer production increased.Day 2 I went to ABC REEFS purchased a mag 9.5 pump to replace my old mag7.Hooked it up and my skimmer stopped producing a head.Day 3 bacterial bloom in water column,has the classic cloudy apperance,still no production from the skimmer since I changed the main sump pump.
As of now I've halted vinegar additions until I can get the skimmer back on track.I placed a bag of carbon into the sump and it seemed to rather quickly clearup the cloudy water.
-Graves

 

[Gravesj1s]

Well, skimmer started to produce finally.Its hard to tell weather the vinegar additions,the pump upgrade or both made the skimmer unable to produce a stable foam. I remember reading posts of other reefers mentioning brand new skimmers required a breakin period.I cant help wonder if that is partly due to a residue coming from the plastics.
The skimmer worked fine prior to the addition of vinegar but disfunctioned after switching out the return pump,wierd.
Im going to start back up with the vinegar but cut the dose to 3/4 of what I initialy began.
So in short Im dosing 2 gal.of kalkwasser per day with added 10ml.vinegar.
-Graves

 

[mikerads]

For what it is worth, I was battling some cyano on my sand. My TDS was good, levels seems OK, replaced bulbs but could not shake it. I started putting a bit of vinegar in my kalk. I put in a dash of vinegar then added Mrs. Wages and then RO to my top off. After three days the sand was white and my skimmer worked overtime.

 

[Gravesj1s]

For what it is worth, I was battling some cyano on my sand. My TDS was good, levels seems OK, replaced bulbs but could not shake it. I started putting a bit of vinegar in my kalk. I put in a dash of vinegar then added Mrs. Wages and then RO to my top off. After three days the sand was white and my skimmer worked overtime.

-Mike, I too, noticed an increase of skimmate. Its much "wetter" than it was prior to adding vinegar.How much did you dose and how long?
thanks-Graves

 

[mikerads]

I have been dosing the vinegar for about 5 days now. I use a 2 gallon top-off and put about 2 tbls of vinegar and 2 tbls of Mrs. Wages. Now that the sand is white, I am not sure if I should continue with this practice or go back to just Mrs. Wages?