Vitamin "c" dosing Calling the experts...

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy can you explain this for us laymen? Does this mean alkalinity doesn't show up until the compound is broke down? If this is the case then maybe VC is available longer then suspected?

Sure.

Like acetate from vinegar (from an article linked earlier in the thread), there is no carbonate and bicarbonate added instantly. There is some amount of contribution to total alkalinity as the organic itself (ascorbate or acetate) will be detected in a total alkalinity test, hence adding some alkalinity. Then later when the organic is fully metabolized to CO2, H2O and HCO3- , there is a direct contribution to bicarbonate alkalinity from the HCO3-.

I've not worked out the exact chemical reaction for ascorbate, but for acetate it is:



(4) 2 O2 + CH3COO- ==> H2O + 2 CO2 + OH- = H2O + CO2 + HCO3-

which is from:

What is Alkalinity
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/2/chemistry

 

[2006]

Got it thanks Randy. My alk spiked after a week of using VC which makes me think it didn't breakdown after 24 hrs.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Could be. Acetate breaks down very rapidly, but ascorbate may be slower, at least until you get populations of bacteria that like to consume it.

 

[Pufferpunk]

I never said I don't dose alk. I dose 25-50ml/day & test about every 2 weeks for adjustments, keeping it at 8-9dKH. I also dose Calcium carbonate nightly & Mg when needed. It had always been recommended that you have stable parameters before dosing VC. I am at a total loss why you 2 out of all the hundreds of other folks who dose, are having alk/pH issues.

5ppm is a good starting point & you don't need to ramp up to that. To keep the ppm you want in your tank, you must dose that amount a minimum of 2x/day, since every bit of it is dissipated within 8 hours. If you split your dose in 1/2, then you are dosing 2.5mm. I only dose 1x/day in my softie tank, because I have never had issues in there, it's just for nitrate reduction.

I do still see a possible danger in dosing VC along with vodka, as far as ORP reduction, unless Randy states otherwise. I also see no purpose in it, as VC does the job of both + much, much more.

 

[RBU1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14262184#post14262184 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pufferpunk
I never said I don't dose alk. I dose 25-50ml/day & test about every 2 weeks for adjustments, keeping it at 8-9dKH. I also dose Calcium carbonate nightly & Mg when needed. It had always been recommended that you have stable parameters before dosing VC. I am at a total loss why you 2 out of all the hundreds of other folks who dose, are having alk/pH issues.

5ppm is a good starting point & you don't need to ramp up to that. To keep the ppm you want in your tank, you must dose that amount a minimum of 2x/day, since every bit of it is dissipated within 8 hours. If you split your dose in 1/2, then you are dosing 2.5mm. I only dose 1x/day in my softie tank, because I have never had issues in there, it's just for nitrate reduction.

I do still see a possible danger in dosing VC along with vodka, as far as ORP reduction, unless Randy states otherwise. I also see no purpose in it, as VC does the job of both + much, much more.

WOW well I might have missed something in the dosing instructions. My 50ppm is 13tsp. I was adding that 2 times a day for a total of 26 tsp a day. Now you are saying that I should have cut the 13 in half and dosed 6.5tsp in the am and 6.5 tsp in the pm????? That would make a HUGE difference in the amount of c..

 

[JSM]

Why do people want it higher than 5ppm if they are not dealing with sick fish or corals? I think I might be missing something here or I missed something in that article.

Genetics,

Are you seeing any problems with dosing vodka as well as VC??

Janna

 

[2006]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14262175#post14262175 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
Could be. Acetate breaks down very rapidly, but ascorbate may be slower, at least until you get populations of bacteria that like to consume it.

Thats what I saw. Alkalinity spike coincided with increased bacterial growth (clear slime).

 

[Pufferpunk]

RBU1 is dealing with fish that have Crypt. I dose at higher levels, because of melting zoanthids & constant newly fragged corals entering my frag tank. It was all guesswork to me, until I read this article:
http://www.livingreefs.com/forums/saltwater-aquarium-articles/590-use-vitamin-c.html

If 50ppm for treatment of sick fish is 13tsp for your sized tank, than that is what I recommend to dose 2x/day. Although start at 5ppm & work your way up to 50 within 2 weeks or so.

 

[RBU1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14262408#post14262408 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pufferpunk
RBU1 is dealing with fish that have Crypt. I dose at higher levels, because of melting zoanthids & constant newly fragged corals entering my frag tank. It was all guesswork to me, until I read this article:
http://www.livingreefs.com/forums/saltwater-aquarium-articles/590-use-vitamin-c.html

If 50ppm for treatment of sick fish is 13tsp for your sized tank, than that is what I recommend to dose 2x/day. Although start at 5ppm & work your way up to 50 within 2 weeks or so.

Well I did follow the directions in that thread. That gets you to 50ppm in 4 days not weeks. OK so should I dose 5ppm 2 times a day? 5 in the morning and 5 in the evening?

 

[Jeff]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14262372#post14262372 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JSM
Why do people want it higher than 5ppm if they are not dealing with sick fish or corals? I think I might be missing something here or I missed something in that article.

Genetics,

Are you seeing any problems with dosing vodka as well as VC??

Janna

Janna, if you have healthy fish and corals, 5 ppm is fine. I dose a little above that simply because 1 tsp gives me around 6-7 ppm per dose I am too lazy to knock a little out of the spoon. If you have unhealthy fish and corals or want to help drop nitrates and phosphates, then increasing the dose will help. I have dosed for well over a year and took a month off as an amateur expiriment and my nitrates climbed to around 5. After doing again for three weeks, nitrates are down to around 1.

 

[Pufferpunk]

RBU1, I only post that article as a reference. Since starting the 100pg VC thread & getting tons of feedback from folks in there, we have adjusted dosing. That's another good reason to read the entire thread.

 

[RBU1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14262929#post14262929 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pufferpunk
RBU1, I only post that article as a reference. Since starting the 100pg VC thread & getting tons of feedback from folks in there, we have adjusted dosing. That's another good reason to read the entire thread.

OK sorry I did not have the time to read the entire thread. SO should I do 5ppm in the morning and 5 ppm in the evening or just 2.5 in the am and 2.5 in the pm????

 

[Pufferpunk]

Be sure your parameters are stable again, before dosing. Dose 5pm in the morning & 5 at night. Raise only after 3-4 days, no faster. How is the puffer?

 

[RBU1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14263327#post14263327 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pufferpunk
Be sure your parameters are stable again, before dosing. Dose 5pm in the morning & 5 at night. Raise only after 3-4 days, no faster. How is the puffer?

Puffer is still eating. Gave him some well soaked shrimp last night. I think he will pull through.

My parameters seem to be back to normal. DKH is still higher than I keep it but not in a danger zone. PH is back to 8.2 during the day and 8.0 at night. I will give it some thought and may start back to the dosing tomorrow in the AM but will stick to the 5ppm. THanks

 

[Pufferpunk]

Does he still have the cysts on him?

 

[RBU1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14263515#post14263515 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pufferpunk
Does he still have the cysts on him?

Hard to tell....Why?

 

[Pufferpunk]

Just wondering if they are still feeding off him or not.

 

[RBU1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14263631#post14263631 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pufferpunk
Just wondering if they are still feeding off him or not.

With his coloring it is real hard to tell. It looks like there might be some still on him but not certain. They could be in his gills anyway and those you cant see. He is healthy so hopefully he can pull through. It is not the first time he has had it on him.

 

[JSM]

Where are you buying the buffered powered VC??

Janna

 

[Pufferpunk]

http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1&pid=-7152293197697039798
$5 off coupon code: [violation]