Vodka dosing and BB tanks

[Wiskey]

I am seriousally thinking about starting to dose Vodka in my 50 gallon BB tank because I beleave it may help me get an even lower nutriant system.

My plan was to start at 0.1 ml and raise that by 0.1 ml per week until I get to 1ml per day, then stick there for a while and see how I am doing.

My question is:

Does anyone use the Vodka on a BB tank, or a SSB tank that already had low nutriant levels?

Does anyone out there use Vodka at all? How long have you been doing this? What are the effects that you have seen? Good, and bad of course

Thanks,
Whiskey

 

[SeanT]

Do a search for Vodka, you will find a multitude of threads on the subject.

hth,
Sean

 

[Hef]

I gave up on Vodka a few months ago. I dosed it for about a full year, moved up to 6ml per day on a 150 gal total system. I could never measure any P or N so I cant tell if it did any good, I stopped using it.
Sounds like your starting level will be safe.
BTW, I was not BB, I run a DSB.

 

[Wiskey]

I did manage to find one 33 page thread on it, which I read yesterday, the bullit points seem to be:

Vodka introduces DOC, which helps bacteria breed which your skimmer takes out (main point of bb)

You NEED heavy flow, and a big skimmer (which I have)

It is possable that it effects some types of bacteria more than others, potentially killing off some bacteria that you need (really bad)

It may encourage bad bacteria to multiply, causing potential harm to your fish, unless you have a good skimmer/flow.

It makes your water crystal clear (mine is really clear anyway since BB but who knowes, maybe it could be clearer)

It may get better colors out of your coral

It may work short term and cause detremental effects long term.

You HAVE TO start slow to avoid major problems.

It may cause serious problems due to lack of O2 in a power outage (scary)

If you dose too much at once it may depleate all the O2 from your system even if the power is on, (bacteria replecation, mainly occurs in heavily loaded tanks with DSB's).



I was hoping someone around here had been using it for a while and could provide more insight. When I can get the search to work again (I was lucky once, may get lucky again) I will be able to find more threads on the topic.

Thanks,
Whiskey

 

[Wiskey]

I gave up on Vodka a few months ago. I dosed it for about a full year, moved up to 6ml per day on a 150 gal total system. I could never measure any P or N so I cant tell if it did any good, I stopped using it.
Sounds like your starting level will be safe.
BTW, I was not BB, I run a DSB.

Did you notice any change when you started using vodka?

Any change when you stopped using it?

EG,
Water clarity, coral color, growth rate, skimmer performance, ect,.. the same?

Thanks,
Whiskey

 

[MiddletonMark]

ldrhawke seems to have an interesting take on it here:
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/116101-post18.html

Among a few others, he seems to have experimented a bit with it and has some interesting points.

Use caution, and report back.

 

[Wiskey]

Very intresting article Mark, thank-you, I could set something like that up where the water comes into my skimmer sump. It is a diffrent take on the method, something worth thinking about.

Thanks,
Whiskey

 

[Hef]

You know how it is with these tanks. Time goes by and changes happen, sometimes you cant isolate exactly what caused it. I'm always making changes and trying new and old things to help.
So I cant say for sure if Vodka helped. Friends would come over and notice how nice my tank looked, and i would say it's because I was dosing Vodka. I was also doing water changes with NSW, or running phosban or some other magic chemical.
I even got PM's from the Vodka Guru's out there from Germany or wherever, they were scared that I couldnt measure PO4 in my system that I shouldnt be using it. That were happy I was having success with it though.

Sorry I cant be of more help

 

[Wiskey]

You know how it is with these tanks. Time goes by and changes happen, sometimes you cant isolate exactly what caused it. I'm always making changes and trying new and old things to help.
So I cant say for sure if Vodka helped. Friends would come over and notice how nice my tank looked, and i would say it's because I was dosing Vodka. I was also doing water changes with NSW, or running phosban or some other magic chemical.
I even got PM's from the Vodka Guru's out there from Germany or wherever, they were scared that I couldnt measure PO4 in my system that I shouldnt be using it. That were happy I was having success with it though.

Sorry I cant be of more help

Ya I hear you, but it definatally did not crash your tank, wipe out all your fish, and RTN your coral, which is a plus .

I have never been able to measure PO4 either, and don't run phosban or anything, but I always come back to the fact that only one type of phospate is measurable, and that is hardly a good gideline IMHO.

One possible big plus is that bacteria is great food for SPS corals, and while it is banging around in the tank, waiting to go into the skimmer, some just might serve as a good dinner .

Thanks for the input,
Whiskey

 

[Wiskey]

Ok, I can't find much more infomation on this, (I did get search to work again), so I think I will plow ahead and report back on if I think it works.

Thanks,
Whiskey

 

[Heinz]

when dosing vodka, it's importend to go slow, you dont need much, also make sure your skimmer is working at all times,
keep us informed how it turns out,

 

[pi]

I have been dosing vodka for several months now since late winter 05. Some things I have noticed...

- coraline as all but stopped growing. The rocks are still covered with brightly coloured coraline. Have not seen ANY on the glass in months
- water is crystal clear
- glass algea greatly reduced but will build up over 10-14 day period
- snails all but gone and stopped breeding. I suspect due to lack of food
- I do get some ugly bacterial mats located on low flow areas like on powerheads and overflows. It is a tan coloured fiberous gel looking stuff, but not too bubbly (sp?). I rather like it as it syphons out easily and I consider an excellent export mechanism.

I started slow as you describe and built up to 5-6ml/day. At one time I was up to 12ml but saw no advantages to the higher dose and cut back. I did try to add it to my freshwater toppoff reservoir and I do NOT recommend this. Seems obvious now but it will create quite a large bacterial mass in the tub.

 

[Wiskey]

when dosing vodka, it's importend to go slow, you dont need much, also make sure your skimmer is working at all times,
keep us informed how it turns out,

Great, just the person I wanted to talk to. Heinz, you were involved in the 33 page thread I read, you were agenst Vodka dosing because it has been seen to cause major problems for some people's tanks.

Have you seen any new infomation regarding Vodka dosing and it's side effects?

Because of the bad results you mentioned, I decided to start dosing only 0.35 ML for my tank daily which containes 80 total gallons. Do you feel this is too high?

I will ramp this up by 0.1 ML/ week until I hit a level of 1ML per day.

Thanks,
Whiskey

 

[Wiskey]

I have been dosing vodka for several months now since late winter 05. Some things I have noticed...

- coraline as all but stopped growing. The rocks are still covered with brightly coloured coraline. Have not seen ANY on the glass in months
- water is crystal clear
- glass algea greatly reduced but will build up over 10-14 day period
- snails all but gone and stopped breeding. I suspect due to lack of food
- I do get some ugly bacterial mats located on low flow areas like on powerheads and overflows. It is a tan coloured fiberous gel looking stuff, but not too bubbly (sp?). I rather like it as it syphons out easily and I consider an excellent export mechanism.

I started slow as you describe and built up to 5-6ml/day. At one time I was up to 12ml but saw no advantages to the higher dose and cut back. I did try to add it to my freshwater toppoff reservoir and I do NOT recommend this. Seems obvious now but it will create quite a large bacterial mass in the tub.

Good, I am glad to hear this worked, now a few questions if I may:

Is your tank BB/SSB/DSB.

Is this the 120G tank you speek of? How much total water volume for 5-6ML? How quick did you ramp up to the 5-6ML?

Do you dose daily? Have you ever missed a few days and gone back to the full dose? What were the results?

Did this drop your nutreant levels? If so what were/are they?

What type of corals do you keep? Have you seen any diffrence in the corals? How were they affected.

When you say that you "saw no advantage to the higher dosage" what do you mean? Do you mean no faster growth?, no cleaner water? Or do you mean it had bad effects?

I was going to add it to my auto topoff, thanks for mentioning the problem in that.



Thanks,
Whiskey

 

[gcarroll]

when dosing vodka, it's importend to go slow, you dont need much, also make sure your skimmer is working at all times,
keep us informed how it turns out,

How much should be dosed and what is considered going slow. Are there any guidlines to dosing.

 

[pi]

Is your tank BB/SSB/DSB.
DSB.

Is this the 120G tank you speek of? How much total water volume for 5-6ML? How quick did you ramp up to the 5-6ML?
Roughly 150 gallons. I started around 1ml and went up 1ml/week

Do you dose daily? Have you ever missed a few days and gone back to the full dose? What were the results?
Yes I add daily. Ideally I would like to setup a slow drip but for now I add all at once. I have missed a day and noticed very little.

Did this drop your nutreant levels? If so what were/are they? I have no quantitative measurements to suggest it is doing anything. But the lack of coraline growth and glass alage would suggest a lower level of nutrients though there could be other root causes.

What type of corals do you keep? Have you seen any diffrence in the corals? How were they affected.
Mostly SPS. Some lightening of coral tissue but I would not say I have seen a great deal of improvment or brighter, stronger colours.

When you say that you "saw no advantage to the higher dosage" what do you mean? Do you mean no faster growth?, no cleaner water? Or do you mean it had bad effects?
Nothing negative. Just appeared I could get the same results with the lower dosage.


I was going to add it to my auto topoff, thanks for mentioning the problem in that.
This got real ugly. Low flow, low o2 environment created a huge bacterial colony in the tub. A tub-o-snot!

 

[Big E]

More info------

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8986

 

[coralite]

I have a barebottom tank about 70 gallons system volume, mostly sps. I have been using vodka (or gin) for a year now and I have experienced similar results to PI. I use an eheim liquidoser to add 1ml per day but I started w/ 1drop per ten gallons for 3 weeks before ramping it up. I have great coral lightening, much reduced filamentous and coraline algae growth and very clear water. My skimmer definitely has to be cleaned every week because of the extra output in skimmate. The one thing different about my reef is I have a separate 20 gallon plenum tank which is where I dose my vodka. I dont know how that affects things but as has been stressed, I think the key to avoiding problems is to start out very slowly and ramp it up carefully. I think that for an appropriately stocked tank, 1ml per 50 gallons is a good level to end up dosing.

 

[wrassie86]

I dosed vodka for about 4 mos.because of high nitrates and it worked very well to bring them down to zero.But right before i stopped dosing, i lost a very fat green manderine that i had for a year or so.I had remebered reading in some of those threads that scaless fish could be the first to go or it was thought,.once it got sick it was dead in 2-3 days.
I'm not blaming the vodka,since i really dont know.But something to think about.

 

[Mark]

I've been dosing vodka for almost 2 years. Initially, I dosed in a 170g with jaubert plenum. Then I upgraded to a 180 which just has a small layer of crushed coral and sand. I too have noticed very little coraline, but I attribute that to my tuxedo urchin. Because I still see coralline growth in my overflows. That said, I dose more conservatively than most. I only dose 5ml in a 180 with an additional 20g in the sump.

It's a great solution for lowering phosphate and nitrogenous products. However, it's very dangerous, because it's easy to overdo it. ramp up slowly. You will say to yourself, "how can such a small amount make an impact." But it does. Also, it's easy to want to ramp up the dosage sooner; because the results don't happen overnight. But give it time.

Jake, glad to see you're still dosing.