Want to confirm that these are red bugs. Pic included
- Thread starter Ralistin
- Start date
salt-rookie
In Memoriam
Clkwrk...You answered your own question as to how they are kept in check in the wild....acro crabs. HOWEVER.....Suppose you get a Gorilla Crab in your tank as a baby....and it finds a nice hole to hide in? There is NEVER one cookie cutter answer in this hobby. You use acro crabs, I don't want hitch hikers in my tank. Its preference. As I see it, if I give you a frag, it can't hurt that it is clean. You give me a frag, I have no acro crabs....then I have a problem. You have a natural way to control the RBs, I don't, so I kill them the best I can. Once again...CHOICE.
salt-rookie
In Memoriam
Not on a roll. I'm just trying to point out that in nature there is always a predator up the food chain to control the natural order. Ther4e is a larger species to eat Gorilla Crabs and Acro Crabs, these predators keep things in balance. In our miniscule fishbowls, we cannot compare to nature. We all do our best! Thats the best we can do!
Yes our closed systems, are ALWAYS missing some part of the food chain...thats why we MUST be very careful what we put in it, or rather let survive in it...
I too think our fellow respectable reefer, has had no visual effect, is in portion due to a high number of acro crabs they eat em....and corals use to being crawled on constantly by acro crabs may not be as suseptable by irritations of the red bugs...who knows its late and I'm just mumbleing jiberish....
But he sure maintains a nice tank with red bugs...! Good husbandry I'm sure!
I think 2 kinds of red bugs may be the case...one good, one bad
Doc
I too think our fellow respectable reefer, has had no visual effect, is in portion due to a high number of acro crabs they eat em....and corals use to being crawled on constantly by acro crabs may not be as suseptable by irritations of the red bugs...who knows its late and I'm just mumbleing jiberish....
But he sure maintains a nice tank with red bugs...! Good husbandry I'm sure!
I think 2 kinds of red bugs may be the case...one good, one bad
Doc
clkwrk
Active member
I haven't seen an acro crab physically eat a red bug so I am not claming that yet. But I think that rb's can't swim as well as we think all observat io ns have been in captive care and not in the wild . It is said they are very good swimmers....But now put them up against natures flow and there maybe a different story.
BTW interceptor hasn't been use for 7yrs I remember the first trial tests Dustin was doing . But then my memory may be foggy but I will go dig up that info for my own reinforcement.
I will also concur that there are 2 different types but I can't say which I have for sure.
Also you guys are right .....its all about choice and thats why I am sticking my guns with my experience.
DOC the pics are an ORA chips , mille and indo valida .
Here's 2 of my blues.
IMO the myth that one must treat and theres no other way is very misplaced.
BTW interceptor hasn't been use for 7yrs I remember the first trial tests Dustin was doing . But then my memory may be foggy but I will go dig up that info for my own reinforcement.
I will also concur that there are 2 different types but I can't say which I have for sure.
Also you guys are right .....its all about choice and thats why I am sticking my guns with my experience.
DOC the pics are an ORA chips , mille and indo valida .
Here's 2 of my blues.
IMO the myth that one must treat and theres no other way is very misplaced.
salt-rookie
In Memoriam
Very nice corals! I'd love to see the two different types of Red Bugs compared on a microscope slide. The trick is balance. How we achieve it is our own style of skill and husbandry.
clkwrk
Active member
BTW everyone who get frags from me knows prior to asking and also knows its there responsiblity to treat since it is their choice to get rb frags.
I will also point out that everyone loves to show there after shots but come on would anyones tank look great after doing a large waterchange and running carbon especially after 3 of them.
I have also noticed that most who have treated have delt with sometype of cyano or nutrient build up thats unexplained. I have that one less variable in my tanks.
I will also point out that everyone loves to show there after shots but come on would anyones tank look great after doing a large waterchange and running carbon especially after 3 of them.
I have also noticed that most who have treated have delt with sometype of cyano or nutrient build up thats unexplained. I have that one less variable in my tanks.
poknsnok
New member
does anyone disagree with the statement that the corals infested with bugs would be happier and healthier without them?... I want my corals to be as happy and healthy as possible. But... I understand the problem with the acro crabs clkwrk has. but noone said this hobby wasnt a lot of work. I will be removing all my shrimp/crabs this weekend and doing my interceptor treatment.
clkwrk, I hope you did not consider me one of those pushing treatment. I was only trying to show the before and after pics so folks can make their own conclusion. I did do a 40% water change and ran carbon for awhile. I only did one treatment though so it was not three water changes. I don't claim to know everything but my experience so far has been positive in my humble opinion.
What I do know is I had done a 40% water change 3 weeks prior to treatment as well. I did not run carbon before treatment. I know for a fact, for whatever reason it may be, that the coral has improved in all around appeareance and growth. It may not be a dramatic change but it is noticable to me. I also know two tips had a very small spot on them were the tissue had died. A little string of algae started to grow on these tips. Since treatment they have healed up and started to grow. Look closely on the far left side of the tip on the before shot and you can actually see what I am talking about.
Again, all I know is after treatment it has improved. Whether it be the carbon, water change, the treatment itself, or some other unknown factor it has improved even though it is only slightly. I don't think 15 days is a great test to see the true difference.
You folks may take this information however you like.
What I do know is I had done a 40% water change 3 weeks prior to treatment as well. I did not run carbon before treatment. I know for a fact, for whatever reason it may be, that the coral has improved in all around appeareance and growth. It may not be a dramatic change but it is noticable to me. I also know two tips had a very small spot on them were the tissue had died. A little string of algae started to grow on these tips. Since treatment they have healed up and started to grow. Look closely on the far left side of the tip on the before shot and you can actually see what I am talking about.
Again, all I know is after treatment it has improved. Whether it be the carbon, water change, the treatment itself, or some other unknown factor it has improved even though it is only slightly. I don't think 15 days is a great test to see the true difference.
You folks may take this information however you like.
salt-rookie
In Memoriam
Clkwrk, I do approximately 15% water changes each week and I run carbon 24/7 anyway. My SPS corals actually LIKE the water changes. Part of my husbandry regimen is trying to keep trace elements as level as possible. My 21 year old son died November 9 of 2005. I missed my water changes that Sunday. I could tell a difference in my corals. The water changes and carbon are something my corals are used to. Killing my pods and 2 Emerald Crabs that I could not catch was the down side for me. My corals are doing much better. On a natural reef...the corals never see the same water twice....they should love water changes.
MiddletonMark
Premium Member
Really?
IMO, most people around here often never knew they had them until someone told them to look [because of coral health issues] or had someone over/sold a frag that showed them.
Following that, I'd bet it takes most people a month to get Interceptor, get around to dosing it. Certainly recently there may be people treating amphipods thinking they have red bugs
... but even so, most folks don't see their vet weekly.I had them for a couple months before doing anything, and was able to watch them slowly degrade the health of my corals. Perhaps that could be ruled as other issues - but watching a 4+ month progression makes me pretty sure that the variety of red bugs I had were problematic. After I knew I had them, it was probably 3 months before I treated - long enough to see the progression, IMO.
Didn't kill a coral, I might mention
A good parasite never will ...After watching the videos I've seen [ here's one, and some good content] it's hard to believe that whatever they're doing with their heads is completely harmless to the coral. Nor that there's been reefkeepers noticing problems associated with them for a number of years now.
I can't demonstrate anything, but given there's 10,000+ species of copepods [or so I've heard] ... perhaps there's more than one that lives on Acropora.
Anyone have closeup pictures of their non-problematic red bugs?
spankey
Active member
OK who has some of this for sale!! I need some, I have seen decreased PE but can't seem to see any Red bugs on my acros? I will post some macro shots and zoom them? Let me know if you see any?
Thanks guys. This thread has been extreamly informative!! Thats for sure...
Spankey
Thanks guys. This thread has been extreamly informative!! Thats for sure...
Spankey
spankey
Active member
Here is my blue tort? Can anyone see anything?
Here is a whitish green acro? Anything?
Finally a green acro?
Thank you guys.. I can't seem to see anything? What apears to be areas of red on the green acro actually are new polyps holes forming.. I thought they were bugs when I looked at the pics, but when I looked at the coral, I then realized they were polyp holes....
Can anyone let me know?
Thanks
Spankey
Here is a whitish green acro? Anything?
Finally a green acro?
Thank you guys.. I can't seem to see anything? What apears to be areas of red on the green acro actually are new polyps holes forming.. I thought they were bugs when I looked at the pics, but when I looked at the coral, I then realized they were polyp holes....
Can anyone let me know?
Thanks
Spankey
Spankey, I do not seem them from those pics. I am sure you saw my earlier pics so that is what you should see if you do have them. They are like tiny little sugar ants but 4-5 times smaller. They can move across the coral surface so if you suspect anything watch for movement. Also the head is always a different coloration from their body but this is hard to see unless you have good vision and a close view.
clkwrk
Active member
Hey Mark,<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7640608#post7640608 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MiddletonMark
Really?
IMO, most people around here often never knew they had them until someone told them to look [because of coral health issues] or had someone over/sold a frag that showed them.
Following that, I'd bet it takes most people a month to get Interceptor, get around to dosing it. Certainly recently there may be people treating amphipods thinking they have red bugs
I had them for a couple months before doing anything, and was able to watch them slowly degrade the health of my corals. Perhaps that could be ruled as other issues - but watching a 4+ month progression makes me pretty sure that the variety of red bugs I had were problematic. After I knew I had them, it was probably 3 months before I treated - long enough to see the progression, IMO.
Didn't kill a coral, I might mention
After watching the videos I've seen [ here's one, and some good content] it's hard to believe that whatever they're doing with their heads is completely harmless to the coral. Nor that there's been reefkeepers noticing problems associated with them for a number of years now.
I can't demonstrate anything, but given there's 10,000+ species of copepods [or so I've heard] ... perhaps there's more than one that lives on Acropora.
Anyone have closeup pictures of their non-problematic red bugs?
I understand where your coming from .....I know your reefkeeping abilities and can say you would beable to tell the difference between your water quality and the effect of red bugs. However I don't always give that same benifit of the doubt to others . Why? well because I myself like many others at one time or another like to point the finger at other things instead of themselves. Kinda like the dsb age thing.(but don't want to go in that dirrection ).
Anyways I whenever I observe my RB'S I never see them sitting still if they are they might be in hard to see areas but most time they are moving around . I have heard or read that there are 2 kinds but I don't know how and average Joe like myself can tell a difference. So I don't know which I have so I assume I have the same ones everyones doing treatments for . I will also add its not like I don't have any interceptor experience. My also mixed tank which house my first sps was treated a few times and the latter due to a reinfestation. eventually I nuked them bastards and was waiting for the changes I saw very few. Then later after I had my 120 sps up I got them from a locals frags whom I had no reason to trust . It was from that time onward that I decide not to treat and I really wanted to see what these bugs were actually doing or was it me and was I blaming them for no reason .......My tank went from ah so so ok maybe to very nice colorful and awesome growth . I couldn't be any happier with my tank and someday I will acheive tank of the month with redbugs
well I am hoping . Anyways I am not saying don't treat but I am saying think for yourself and sometimes look outside the box.
Here are my rb pics.
Flash
no flash
BTW that acro above has had them from day 1 in my tank which is here
Also since I just found this pic I will add that I now have 8 of these that I have counted they all hang out in colonies all day long
and another. This piece is light because I choose to blast it . I have another in lower light that has deeper colors.
Don't see any but that don't mean much....refer to the new thread I just started named Doc's set up...there is a pic of a blue tenuis with red bugs on it...very clear pic of them...
Best way to see them is look at night...several hours after lights off, turn em on...look closly at the base of the acros not the tips...torts arn't usally affected or infected by the bugs...but I bet that lighter stag would be.....
anymore questions don't hesitate to ask...
Doc
Best way to see them is look at night...several hours after lights off, turn em on...look closly at the base of the acros not the tips...torts arn't usally affected or infected by the bugs...but I bet that lighter stag would be.....
anymore questions don't hesitate to ask...
Doc
Your red bugs look just like mine...mine were harmful....
I had corals look just as good as yours...treated and they looked even better! Remember the bugs only really hurt badly certain kinds of acros...many kinds of acros go unaffected .....
I have had red bugs slowly over 2 years kill some acros...FACT....I have had tons of frags and colonys doing terrible 2 weeks after treatment looked like a new coral FACT! Marks not the only non-idiot here....I may not be a moderator at RC, but I know my reef stuff enough to tell the difference between my husbandry a
and red bug damage....I probably been doing this as long as you....And I have made alot of stupid mistakes in the past and take full credit for my mistakes....
..FWIW..... I did not do massive water changes to attribute my better acro'as after treatment...I treated in a Q-tank....I too value my main tanks...had a hard time dumping dog meds in it....
Basically your saying Duston Dorton, myself, Mark...Salty..and HUNDREDS of other reefers are just under a false delusion that red bugs are harmful...??????
Its one thing to say mine look good so I'm not treating, and a complete other to say you guys are crazy for treating...its your fault not the bugs....these bugs are harmless...
Or am I misunderstanding your case here...? No offense just trying to be rational here....
Doc
I had corals look just as good as yours...treated and they looked even better! Remember the bugs only really hurt badly certain kinds of acros...many kinds of acros go unaffected .....
I have had red bugs slowly over 2 years kill some acros...FACT....I have had tons of frags and colonys doing terrible 2 weeks after treatment looked like a new coral FACT! Marks not the only non-idiot here....I may not be a moderator at RC, but I know my reef stuff enough to tell the difference between my husbandry a
and red bug damage....I probably been doing this as long as you....And I have made alot of stupid mistakes in the past and take full credit for my mistakes....
..FWIW..... I did not do massive water changes to attribute my better acro'as after treatment...I treated in a Q-tank....I too value my main tanks...had a hard time dumping dog meds in it....
Basically your saying Duston Dorton, myself, Mark...Salty..and HUNDREDS of other reefers are just under a false delusion that red bugs are harmful...??????
Its one thing to say mine look good so I'm not treating, and a complete other to say you guys are crazy for treating...its your fault not the bugs....these bugs are harmless...
Or am I misunderstanding your case here...? No offense just trying to be rational here....
Doc
