**** Warning For All New Vodka Dosers****

[Ace1]

**** WARNING FOR ALL NEW VODKA DOSERS****

DO NOT USE A SYRING TO ADMINISTOR YOUR .01ML DOSE INCREMENTS !!!!

After careful consideration I think i over dosed the vodka...

Where did i go wrong??

I believe i should have used a DROPPER instead of a syring as 1 drop =.01ml

This to me is a far better/safer measure then the syring.

After discussion with a fellow reefer we found that the 1ml syring that comes with salifert test kits are off by 3+ drops!!! so i was dosing what i thought to be .01 but was actually .03-.04ish!! This is triple the recommended start dose for my 34g

It is very easy to OD on vodka so each drop is a huge deal especially with starting doses, particularly for more delicate fish

too bad a had to loose a nice midas blenny to learn this lesson, but hopfully this tiny bit of info can prevent someone else from making the same mistake :-(

We live and we learn

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm not sure I understand your concerns. A drop is not usually a good way to measure volume unless you have carefully measured what size drop forms on the particular tip you are using and for the particular liquid you are using, as both impact it. I certainly agree that the idea that 1 drop always = 0.01 ml is not true, or even close to accurate.

For accurate volume measurement, a good syringe will beat a dropper. That said, a 1 ml syringe is not ever going to allow accurate measurement to 0.01 ml. I also do not see why you need or want to.

What volume are you trying to dose? The Salifert syringe will be quite good at dosing 0.1 to 1 mL with as much accuracy as you'll need for vodka in a 34 gallon tank (IMO)

 

[Ace1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14478184#post14478184 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
I'm not sure I understand your concerns. A drop is not usually a good way to measure volume unless you have carefully measured what size drop forms on the particular tip you are using and for the particular liquid you are using, as both impact it. I certainly agree that the idea that 1 drop always = 0.01 ml is not true, or even close to accurate.

For accurate volume measurement, a good syringe will beat a dropper. That said, a 1 ml syringe is not ever going to allow accurate measurement to 0.01 ml. I also do not see why you need or want to.

What volume are you trying to dose? The Salifert syringe will be quite good at dosing 0.1 to 1 mL with as much accuracy as you'll need for vodka in a 34 gallon tank (IMO)

This statement is the reason i chose the syring over the dropper
" The Salifert syringe will be quite good at dosing 0.1 to 1 mL with as much accuracy as you'll need for vodka in a 34 gallon tank"

And for the record i DID use the skinny 0.1-1ml syring and did NOT use the extra tip that comes with them. This syring does read increments of 0.1- 1ml.

I was trying to dose 0.1 ml as the start dose for a 34g, on day 2 my clam dies, on day 3 my blenny dies, there are very few if any reports of fish being effected by vodka UNLESS one over doses, Soo... after considering and comparing with a friend who used a dropper and doubled my start dose (2x drops per day for days 1-3 on a 24g) with No ill affects we believe the syring version of 0.1ml was overkill.

my concern is that the 0.1 reading with the syring turns out to be very misleading for reasons you stated above, those same reasons would distort the "accuracy" of the amount.

This distortion i believe was the difference in dose amounts that could cause one to overdose this liquid.

As for droppers i do agree that it depeneds upon a number of factors BUT i think the amount of 1 drop is by far MORE CONSERVATIVE than the so called measured 0.1ml syring IME.

A good example would be Salifert Amino Acid's, they state the dose amount in 5ml increments but ADD a sticker to the bottle that reads " 1x10 drops = 1ml " which would imply that 1x1 = 0.1ml using there dropper tip (confirming the potential for distortionof accuracy). Fully understanding that each drop can differ this is where i gather my assumption that "IN GENERAL" 1 drop = 0.1ml

oh and thanx for your response

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Your fist post referred to 1 drop = 0.01 ml. The second post says 0.1 mL. There is a big difference. You also must use the Salifert tip to get the Salifert stated drop size.

I don't think the 0.1 mL mark on the syringe is off by much if you used the syringe correctly, and even if you dosed twice that amount, it would not kill fish, IMO. For weeks I dosed the equivalent of 5 ml to your tank and did not have any fish problems. I'm not recommending that you dose 5 mL, but IMO, it makes it unlikely that a slight overdose at 0.1 ml will rapidly kill healthy fish (assuming you have a skimmer for aeration, etc).

 

[Konadog]

I would agree with you Randy, the only way I could see it killing anything in the tank is if there was a large algae bloom that depleted all the O2 very rapidly. Ace, did you notice your tank water tuning white or any white strings appearing in the tank/sump?

 

[mhaith]

I agree with these guys that your assumption that V dosing is causing your problems may be in question.

Any other dosing or changes? Was it you in another thread saying you were dosing potassium?

 

[Ace1]

Day three in the morning i did notice that my water was a bit cloudy but i thought nothing of it as it lasted what seemed like a very short time say 2 hours??

I did not notice any white strings and i dont have a major algae bloom as any GHA was scrubbed weeks prior to dosing.

Now i was dosing prodibio Bioptim a few weeks earlier but i layed off for about 20 days prior to trying the vodka. I have been dosing Potassium for months now.

My regime goes:
2 part alk & ca Morning and evening every day
Strontium (2 days per week Fri, Tues)
Potassium 3 days (Fri, Sun, Tues)
CV & Spong power each day.
Phols Xtra 3 days a week (Mon, Wed, Fri)

I have many of V dosing buddies that do this and more along with the V regime.

And to clarify things i dont think i have a real problem, my corals look the best they ever have with suprising growth and a very short period of time;-)
I just think i over dosed the V by using the syringe.

 

[Ace1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14479482#post14479482 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
Your fist post referred to 1 drop = 0.01 ml. The second post says 0.1 mL. There is a big difference. You also must use the Salifert tip to get the Salifert stated drop size.

I don't think the 0.1 mL mark on the syringe is off by much if you used the syringe correctly, and even if you dosed twice that amount, it would not kill fish, IMO. For weeks I dosed the equivalent of 5 ml to your tank and did not have any fish problems. I'm not recommending that you dose 5 mL, but IMO, it makes it unlikely that a slight overdose at 0.1 ml will rapidly kill healthy fish (assuming you have a skimmer for aeration, etc).

0.01must have been a typo

Well my clown survived after a near brush with death BUT you could be right, I have no explanation.. Blenny & Clam acting great for 2 weeks, all is well i add V and boom day 2 clam dies, day 3 blenny dies, day four clown almost dies (laying on its side being pushed by the flow??) I stop dosing clown recovers Corals are totally unaffected

the V was the only oddity..

However i will try again as my No3 seems to be rising BUT i will NOT use that syringe.
so we'll see how the dropper amounts do (with 1 drop representing 0.1ml)

 

[A.T.T.R]

isnt 15 drops i ml appx?

 

[A.T.T.R]

oh btw on that note i use a small messuring cup used for meds in hospitals.. ( has readings in ml and tsp and a few others

i just kinda eyeball it being exact isnt that important

 

[MattAndKim]

ATTR I agree, we have always used 15-25 drops as a rule of thumb.
Buy a graduated cylinder or pipette if you are really concerned about this. I find it hard to believe that these effects are generated by such a small error.

When I deployed, a miscommunication caused my girlfriend to administer double the dose i recommended for 3 months, without ANY ill effect, and i now maintain a regular vodka dose that is in excess of what most people administer without any observed problems. If i see anything that concerns me, i will reduce it but as of now i am keeping it stable.

 

[OwenInAZ]

Sure it was vodka and not grain alcohol or gin or something? It sounds like a stupid question but grain alcohol is 95% EtOH and gin/other liquors have other crap in them that could be detrimental.

Even 95% probably wouldn't do much at 10 microliters or even 100, though. in that volume it's something like 7.3x10^-5% alcohol.

 

[Ace1]

Smirnoff......;-/

as the old saying goes

EVERY TANK IS DIFFERENT

question
has anyone ever seen a fish have a sudden heart attack?? acting normal in one minute and suddenly look to be choking go crazy and drop dead and began turning dark in less than 20 seconds?

This is an experience i had AFTER starting my V... who knows what caused this BUT if this was your experience simultanious to dosing an new substance what would yall think?

 

[Nanook]

Something weird is going on in your tank and it's not the vodka

 

[Lutefisk]

Also, if you're that concerned about accuracy you might try diluting your vodka. You were trying dose starting at 0.1ml so dilute your vodka with RO/DI water 10:1 and then dose 1.0 ml.

 

[returnofsid]

Ummm just a quick question. Did you have the fish autopsied to determine it was a "small heart attack?"

I have to agree with everyone else. I think something else is going on in your tank that caused your fish and clam death. However, I do see why you would come to the conclusion that it was the vodka dosing, since it coincided. I hope you're able to get it figured out!!

 

[mhaith]

+1

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14482764#post14482764 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ace1


My regime goes:
2 part alk & ca Morning and evening every day
Strontium (2 days per week Fri, Tues)
Potassium 3 days (Fri, Sun, Tues)
CV & Spong power each day.
Phols Xtra 3 days a week (Mon, Wed, Fri)

My money is on a build-up or interaction of all the stuff you are dosing on a daily basis in a small tank. First guess is the potassium. (Strontium and potassium are tough to test... what are the parameters?)

 

[snorvich]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14493436#post14493436 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Nanook
Something weird is going on in your tank and it's not the vodka

I agree. Sounds like some type of pathogen but not vodka.

 

[Jerm77]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14497383#post14497383 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by snorvich
I agree. Sounds like some type of pathogen but not vodka.

also in agreement. if you have a infectious bacteria - i'm sure the vodka isn't helping, but I doubt it is the cause.

 

[Ace1]

Well i do test for potassium, but i get lazy on the strontium

Maybe there is some sort of pathogen, anything i should look for?

The dilute is a good idea.

My version of dilute was to fill up a cup of tank water and mix in
the V then dose.

I really hope its not the V..
I started dosing again with the dropper and this is day 2 so i will keep yall posted
so far corals are still looking better than ever and my clown seems ok