Water change equipment

[aculross]

I have a 120 that I normally perform 10G water changes on - I'd like to do larger changes (25-40G) and have a question that must be common. My RODI unit is in the basement and the tank is on the first floor. I'm not interested in carrying (like I do now) 40G of new saltwater upstairs. Questions:

1) What sort of containter do people use for storing saltwater - big 55 gallon trash cans I'm assuming - any other ideas?
2) Do people get some large submersable pump and pump 40G upstairs (literally up the basement stairs -25 plus feet plus a house story of height) to another 55G trash can upstairs? What kind of pump do you use for the long upward travel of the saltwater?

Thanks !

 

[Drag Racer]

Plumb your sump to the basement if possible. Will make your life so much easier.

Otherwise a strong pump with a hose to pump your WC water up to your tank would work too.

 

[5pacey]

That is a great topic... I have been trying to come up w/some solution to this as well. I am in the same boat, 1st floor tank, RODI/2x45 gal brutes in the basement... But... due to the combined head of ~16 ft (12 ft of height + ~4 ft for turns, elbows and plumbing) it feels like the pump required for setup like that would have to be very $$$. Looking @ reeflo's for example we are talking 300-400 for the pump, and of course you have to run the plumbing to accomodate this. Furthermore, the pumps in that flow/head range are as I understand really designed for continuous operation rather than on/off cycles to pump some water up every once in a while... so... I am not sure what a reasonably priced solution would be to this.

Spacey :eek1:

 

[aculross]

Exactly 5pacey - we really need some submergible pump, but what is there that can push that much water that far?

Drag Racer - I wish I could plumb the sump to the basement but for various reasons that's not in the cards at the moment.

 

[viggen]

I have (or I guess had) a old little giant submersible pump. It can be purchased at numerous places usually (I purchased mine from Miejers). It's a 1200+ GPH pump, consumed a lot of power but would easily push the water through 100ft of garden hose & from the basement to the trashcans I use to use. If I recall it was $100 ish but it was probably 10 years ago when I purchased the pump, they still make it. You could also use a larger MAG pump, MAG24/36 moves a lot of water. I use a mag36 on my pond when I need to drain it when I was building the pond.

 

[solitude127]

For an application like y'all need, I'd find a used pump with high head pressure and not worry too much about how many watts the pump is because it won't be on 24/7.

 

[billwill]

I've got a 90g and do 20g changes. I've got a 40g RO/DI container, and a 20g salt mixing container right next to it in the garage. I fill the 20g and make saltwater a day before needing it. Use small pump (or siphon) and tubing and drain display tank to the kitchen sink down to my known 20g point. Use bigger pump and about 40' of 3/4" tubing to pump saltwater to display.

 

[5pacey]

You know... I am going to conduct an experiment... I just got a new Eheim 1262 to use for the return pump for the 90 setup I am in process of putting together. I also have a Tunze Silence 1072.40 which I thought will be too weak for the 90 + 29g sump. but... I was planning to use a chiller in line in the return line. Now I am not sure I will do that. If I don't I may not need the 1262 to do return pump duty w/its 900gph power... and 792gph Tunze might be just right (w/4ft head).

So... I will see if I can hookup the Eheim in the basement to a garden hose and see what will come out on 1st floor. Very curious...

I'll keep ya posted.

Spacey

 

[aculross]

5pacey Please do.

 

[Drag Racer]

I have (or I guess had) a old little giant submersible pump. It can be purchased at numerous places usually (I purchased mine from Miejers). It's a 1200+ GPH pump, consumed a lot of power but would easily push the water through 100ft of garden hose & from the basement to the trashcans I use to use. If I recall it was $100 ish but it was probably 10 years ago when I purchased the pump, they still make it. You could also use a larger MAG pump, MAG24/36 moves a lot of water. I use a mag36 on my pond when I need to drain it when I was building the pond.

Thats exactly what I was thinking. Much easier to unroll 50 ft of garden hose then carrying 4 5gallon jugs every week.

 

[5pacey]

Well... that may be... unfortunately if you are married this solution will not be approved on a permanent basis despite it's obvious merits and you will beg to be allowed to carry the damn buckets twice a week...

Spacey :headwally:

 

[5pacey]

Ok, here's what I did:

1) Filled 30 gal Brute in the basement up to 25 gal level w/tap water.
2) Run a "commercial grade" 3/4" ID garden hose 75' long from Lowes from my basement up to 1st floor (12' ceiling in the basement) up a flight of stairs and then to the study.
3) Put Eheim 1262 in the Brute in the basement.
4) Run a 100' extension cord from the study down to the basement and connected the Eheim to it.
5) Connected the other end of the extension cord in the study to a power strip w/a switch.
6) Attached the basement end of the hose to the Eheim through 3/4" hose adaptor.
7) Put study end of the hose into a 5 gal bucket.
8) Went to study and flipped the switch...
9) Measured how much water came out within 2 min period.

Came out 3.25 Gal... within 2 min. This makes 97.5 Gph.

Dumped the water from 5G bucket in the study and swapped the Eheim for Tunze (1073.40), and repeated... Came out zilch, nada.

So..... lesson... believe the numbers on paper... LOL ... in case of the Eheim they are actually conservative. IOW, according to the chart the Eheim has 0 flow @ 12 feet. Well, this was at least 12 feet, probably few feet more of head and it still produced 100Gph...

Ok... so I am still in a bind. No clue what pump to use for Basement->DT/Sump water transport. Don't really want to use the Eheim - too nice a pump and not really enough flow... I mean 3.25 Gal in 2 min is something but honestly it would get old real quick w/10-20 Gal water changes. Oh and did I mention I'd like the pump not to cost me my kidney?

Spacey

 

[5pacey]

Ok, in my calculations I have arrived at the following pumps as being adequate (Eheim 1262 obviously not being one of them) to push enough water from the basement up one floor to DT.

Reeflo Tarpon UNO
Iwaki MD55-RLT
Panworld 150PS

Based on paper specs they would roughly deliver similar amount of flow (~800 Gph) @ the return nozzle in the DT. They are all within the same wattage range (170-180).

Their pricing is interesting, essentially (in the descending order above) each is ~$100 less than the previous one... So

Reeflo Tarpon UNO $445,-
Iwaki MD55-RLT - $327,-
Panworld 150PS - $206,- (BRS have a sale on them, normally they are ~$235 or so).

Reeflo is more than 2X price of the Panworld LOL ... but on all accounts Reeflo pumps are above and beyond all others in performance and quality.

Now... those pumps are all so called "continuous use", meaning they are designed to work for an extended period of time once switched on. This would work fine for a "return" pump if a sump is located in the basement for example. But... if I want to have a sump in the stand but drain change water through a pipe in the wall down to the basement / drain, and then also have a clean change water pumped up via another pipe from the mixing vat in the basement up to the sump on 1st floor, this would really not be "continuous use"... in effect those pumps would probably work every time, but would likely get worn out in much shorter amount of time than under normal use because of regular (bi-weekly, weekly or even daily) ON/OFF cycles.

Question to any informed readers... any idea on what pump would work in this scenario better w/frequent ON/OFF cycles? Possibly less expensive one?

Thoughts, ideas?

Spacey

 

[aculross]

Aren't all these pumps external pumps as well? That makes it a bit more difficult as we'd have to plumb them into our new saltwater containers somehow.

 

[5pacey]

Aren't all these pumps external pumps as well? That makes it a bit more difficult as we'd have to plumb them into our new saltwater containers somehow.

Indeed they are... so that does force the setup in a certain way. I would add to this list also Blueline 55HD, which apparently is an "equivalent" to Panworld 150PS. Also, there are some Danner pumps which look like could work but I haven't seen anyone talking about them and read some reliability comments on one of the vendor's sites. Specifically the Pro HY series... Danner Pro HY-Drive 2100 model for example looks comparable on paper to the other ones I mentioned but is submersible. Looks like that one can be had new for $170,-. It's 190W pump that should put out plenty of flow at Basement -> 1st floor head pressure w/reasonable number of 90deg elbows.

Spacey

 

[ctreefer]

Maybe a Mag 24. Says at 16' head it will pump 200gph. Not great but its submersible still and has a pretty good reliability rating within the industry. About $200

 

[ctreefer]

Or a Mag drive 18 with fractionating impeller at 16' head is 275gph and runs about $170.

You could also raise the container in the basement off the floor 2' with some cinder blocks which would make your head 14'. At 14' with the 18 you get 560gph which is now significant.

 

[Todd_Sails]

Hello?

This is for water changes only- correct?

Have you seen the threads about using a relatively inexpensive, but very powerful
Sump Pump for this very purpose?

I've seen threads about the reef compatibility of a home sump pump, and there are some.

Sorry, I don't have a link, but it was a great solution for them.
For me too soon, as I'm just plumbing my RO/DI system for drinking water and reef, and my tank is on the first floor, but I'll probably fill the mixing bin in the basement.

And, how much flow do you need for a WC?

 

[5pacey]

Hello?

This is for water changes only- correct?

Have you seen the threads about using a relatively inexpensive, but very powerful
Sump Pump for this very purpose?

I've seen threads about the reef compatibility of a home sump pump, and there are some.

Sorry, I don't have a link, but it was a great solution for them.
For me too soon, as I'm just plumbing my RO/DI system for drinking water and reef, and my tank is on the first floor, but I'll probably fill the mixing bin in the basement.

And, how much flow do you need for a WC?

Good point... Yes I do remember those threads but I looked through Lowes and Home Depot around here and all those pumps specifically say not to use w/saltwater I also remember calling one of the manufacturers and they were pretty adamant about not using in anything other than freshwater. They have brass parts in them I think or something. Not to mention that they won't last long, although I do recall someone saying that it worked for them for a while. But... how long the pump lasts is one thing, and what kind of crap from dissolving metals it adds to the "clean" salt water it is suppose to pump (and sits in continuously - so you know the metal parts are getting some chemical action), is another...

Another thing is those pumps, that I have seen in Lowes/HD aren't dirt cheap either...they start at about $90 or so. Power wise on paper they seem more than adequate but like I said above... ???

Maybe I should do some searching again and see if I can dig up some specifics on those pumps.

And yea... for W/C I guess you don't need a lot - maybe 300-400 Gph, More would be nice but beggars can't be choosers I suppose.

Spacey

 

[acidblondie]

I'm going to be using a Litermeter and changing about 4 gallons a day when I finally get my 210 system up and running. They say those pumps can lift water over 30 feet and push up around 60 feet IRC