Weeds

[Chasmodes]

Michael and Dawn, that's what happens with my entire yard!:lolspin:

Theoretically you could have two screens, one would be in the display for fish feeding for a week while the other screen does the filtering.

Feeding isn't expensive. Nori is pretty cheap & in a form very practical for feeding. I also feed blended seafood bought fresh from the market.

That makes sense. I thought your idea was a good one though, to not let your algae go to waste LOL.

 

[vlangel]

Michael and Dawn, that's what happens with my entire yard!:lolspin:

I hear ya Kevin. I have a banner in my garden that reads:
Don't mind the weeds, I am feeding the bees! LOL

 

[vlangel]

Michael and Dawn, that's what happens with my entire yard!:lolspin:

I hear ya Kevin. I have a banner in my garden that reads:
Don't mind the weeds, I am feeding the bees! LOL

 

[Scrubber_steve]

yard!:lolspin:
That makes sense. I thought your idea was a good one though, to not let your algae go to waste LOL.

Its good garden compost

 

[Michael Hoaster]

True! Great garden compost.

 

[neilp2006]

amazing tank and macros- been a pleasure to read Michael. im in the process of doing the same thing in a 40gallon section of my sump and this has been an inspiration

I have a question from a few posts ago- you mentioned 'pulling' the shoal grass. Are you pulling up the entire root and stolons or just trimming back the leaves? Ive been looking for shoal grass but it looks like harvest season isnt here yet and the lockdown sitauation might make procurement difficult. If you are truly pulling it, it would be a shame to waste.

 

[neilp2006]

Those nutrient levels are perhaps too low, even for sps corals, so very challenging for plants. Seagrasses can flourish in lower nutrients, but not that low. I'd try to nudge those nutrient levels up to the higher accepted ranges for your corals. That's the tightrope.

I would definitely increase the fish feeding. That'll help get nitrate and phosphate up a little. For carbon, plants prefer CO2, so if you have a calcium reactor you're good. If not, typical reef tank alkalinity levels should provide enough bicarbonates for them to convert to CO2.

What you're doing is challenging, but I think it can be done, with a few changes. Right now, I think you are a little too reef oriented. Bump up those nutrients a touch. And remove the competition - the scrubber and refugium. The fast growing algae on scrubbers will always outcompete grasses for nutrients.

Whats a good nitrate/phosphate level for growing grasses? You say that 20ppm nitrate may be too low, but where is the sweet spot? ive been running my tank at 5ppm nitrate, 0.1ppm phosphate, but ive still to add sps. just lps and softies right now. I know they can be pushed higher, and id like to do SPS too.

thoughts on where i should aim, given that i currently have to dose nitrate and phosphate to hit those levels even with good feeding? i inadvertantly ran ULN for a few months about 18 months ago, and got hit bad with chrysophytes, and the only way to eradicate it was to dose. Ive ended up with a really robust denitrifying bacteria population that reduces my nitrate to 0ppm in 48 hours if i dont dose (180 g display, 180 sump system) so im already used to dialing in those parameters

also- any comment on CO2 injection vs maintaining a water change schedule? i find i dont have to do too many changes as my system stays pretty clean. with such a large volume, injection may be preferable over large volume WCs.

thanks!

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks neilp2006! Your sump refugium sounds cool. What are you doing exactly?

On the shoal grass, yes I will be pulling some soon. I've pretty much promised those plants to vlangel. We're going to make a trade I think. If I have more I'd be happy to work something out with you too.

 

[neilp2006]

Awesome.

I have a 180g display and a basement fishroom with a 180 sump. Theres a 40g 32" chamber in there thats a failed chaeto fuge. Failed because ive never had nutrients high enough to support growth

Its coming uo for its 2 year birthday and im so bored looking at a dry chamber- so im building a small fake rock wall to separate the back 1/3rd from the front, and making a 7" deep mud bed in back for grasses, and a 2" deep bed to put rocks on for 5-6 macros.

Check out my awesome rendering, lol!





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[Michael Hoaster]

Neilp2006, I don't know what nitrate/phosphate levels are ideal for seagrasses. I do know the ratio of macro nutrients for seagrasses and macro algae (Carbon/Nitrogen/phosphorus-also known as C/N/P). That ratio is 550-30-1, known as the Atkins Ratio, not to be confused with the Redfield Ratio, which refers to phytoplankton.

In my tank, I'm feeding higher nutrients for strong plant growth, with no worries of corals. I rarely test. So I don't know the low end of their range. In the quote above, I'm suggesting you maintain nutrients at the higher end of the coral's range, so they're happy, and maybe there's little leftover for the grasses. I assume the corals are the priority. So start with the coral's preferred numbers. Sorry I don't have solid numbers for you on grasses. I have read that seagrass can outcompete macro algae by surviving in lower nutrient waters. This leads me to believe seagrasses could partner well with corals.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks for fleshing that out! I think your design should work well. Do you have a thread for this project? I'd follow!

 

[neilp2006]

I do on the other forum, kinda. Big build thread. But i will be doing a standalone since its a new project and would be a nice focussed thread.

I like your idea of doing 'ground cover' around the grasses- what are you using to do that?


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[Michael Hoaster]

Right on. I think it's worth it to do a thread.

I was hoping the Caulerpa verticillata (petticoat) was going to be my ground cover, but I'm not so sure. It doesn't seem to like the sand so much. I've shifted it to the fake wall and its doing very well. Right now I have a lot of gauzy algae between the grasses. The pods and mini serpent stars like it but I don't. It's brown. Not a fan of brown. I think a Herald's Angelfish would chow down on it, but I need to wait on that. I also tried fern and feather caulerpa between the grasses. I'm removing them. I like them in general, but I didn't like them in the grasses. I'd prefer to confine them to the wall.

So, my ground cover choice is undecided so far. Great refuge for pods 'n friends, so a good idea I think. I may try to chill and see what Nature comes up with. As long as it's not hideous and provides good refuge…

 

[neilp2006]

Oof. This is an awesome thread... power reading through it for info. I think im at post 450 or so, lol

I love the substrate. Ive been planning to layer 1" sugar sand, 4" sand and miracle mud mix, 2" top layer of medium course special grade. Thinking if a few flourish tabs right at 4" firva boost.

That would allow me to plant the grass stolons 4" deep, right into that mud mix.

A question, if i may- i love microfauna, but the idea of adding non-quarantined live mud into my clean system (ive been meticulous with QT everything so far) gives me pause. Where are you sourcing things like microbristleworms, etc?

I plan to QT my mud crew by setting up a smaller tank, and adding saltwater adapted mollies as 'canaries'. I can then let it go for 2 weeks, them if the mollies are clean, use the substrate in the seagrass section.

This, of course, depends on the source of the 'live mud'- if its a fish-less system, im good. I just dont know really where to start procuring that.


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[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks for reading neilp2006!

Indo-Pacific Sea Farms (ipsf.com) has some great detrivores, and other critters - Captive bred. Your substrate sounds good. I applaud your meticulousness! QT to your heart's content. The mollies won't give birth to babies if there is ICH.

I got my mud from my yard. If I couldn't do that I'd buy garden soil with no vermiculite.

 

[neilp2006]

Thanks for reading neilp2006!

Indo-Pacific Sea Farms (ipsf.com) has some great detrivores, and other critters - Captive bred. Your substrate sounds good. I applaud your meticulousness! QT to your heart's content. The mollies won't give birth to babies if there is ICH.

I got my mud from my yard. If I couldn't do that I'd buy garden soil with no vermiculite.

Awesome -IPSF. Thanks for the tip. Ive read into them before but lost my bookmarks when i lost my phone .

The black mollies show any presence of ich or velvet extremely well. Ive used them following h2o2 baths combined with TTM for my current QT with great success. In fact, everyone is so healthy my mollies (4 females, two males) have broods pretty much every two weeks.

Im going to keep reading over the next few days. Looking forward to following along


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[Michael Hoaster]

I'm impressed to hear of someone else taking advantage of mollies' utility. They're great algae eaters too.

Enjoy the read. Let me know if anything else piques your interest. Also, I found some good reading in the sticky: Forum favorites (old helpful posts), here in the macro section.

 

[vlangel]

Thanks for reading neilp2006!

Indo-Pacific Sea Farms (ipsf.com) has some great detrivores, and other critters - Captive bred. Your substrate sounds good. I applaud your meticulousness! QT to your heart's content. The mollies won't give birth to babies if there is ICH.

I got my mud from my yard. If I couldn't do that I'd buy garden soil with no vermiculite.

I do on the other forum, kinda. Big build thread. But i will be doing a standalone since its a new project and would be a nice focussed thread.

I like your idea of doing 'ground cover' around the grasses- what are you using to do that?


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I will enjoy following your new thread neilp2006. It is similar to my system only much bigger.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

I believe setups like yours, Dawn, are bridging the gap between reefers and plant guys. People see these and realize it is possible to keep reefs AND plants. And it doesn't have to be just chaeto in a fuge. It can be something worthy of display and entertaining in its own right.

Being more plant focused makes my setup easier, but it seems most folks aren't quite ready to go whole hog. I'm not exactly seeing a tidal wave of marine planted tanks. So these hybrid setups may help transition more people to the joys of keeping plants.

 

[vlangel]

I believe setups like yours, Dawn, are bridging the gap between reefers and plant guys. People see these and realize it is possible to keep reefs AND plants. And it doesn't have to be just chaeto in a fuge. It can be something worthy of display and entertaining in its own right.

Being more plant focused makes my setup easier, but it seems most folks aren't quite ready to go whole hog. I'm not exactly seeing a tidal wave of marine planted tanks. So these hybrid setups may help transition more people to the joys of keeping plants.

I really love this 'hybrid' setup. I love the lush diversity plus the nutrient control makes this tank easy to maintain even with a fairly heavy fish load.