Wet Skimmate Water Changes?
- Thread starter JMBoehling
- Start date
After I saw your initial email, no, we've not connected.
Randy, this is a question unrelated to this thread but I don't know how to reach you otherwise, so I apologize to our readers...
can LaCl be safely combined with MgCl/MgS04? I'm dosing each and considering combining them, also, can acetic acid (vinegar) be combined with either of them as well?
many thanks!
can LaCl be safely combined with MgCl/MgS04? I'm dosing each and considering combining them, also, can acetic acid (vinegar) be combined with either of them as well?
many thanks!
Yes, all of those can likely be mixed OK. Lanthanum sulfate will precipitate if you make it too concentrated.
thanks! could they also be mixed with a Kalk solution?
No, aside from vinegar, none can be mixed with limewater.
JMBoehling
Premium Member
Update and a slight modification 
Well I recently added a Reefkeeper Light to my setup. Main reason is I wanted a way to control my PH, as it would dip a little lower than I liked at times.. Well here is what I have done and it seems to keep things nicely in check, and compliments my wet skimmate water changes.
First the setup:
(01) Aqualifter
(01) Ph Controller (Reefpkeeper Lite for me )
Here's how it works. If my PH goes below 8.19, the PH controller turns on my Aqualifter. It removes saltwater from my sump. As it removes saltwater from my sump into my 5 gallon wet skimmate bucket, my kent float valve opens, and allows Kalk to drip very slowly at the same rate my Aqualifter is set via a Micro Air Adjuster.
Here are some picture of the results (6 hour results of my PH today)
I use a aqualifter prefilter so the diaphram doesn't get clogged
Here's the collection bucket. If anything goes crazy the venturi from my skimmer will suck water back into the fuge and stop kalk from dripping . I realize this is not optimal, and there are other ways to skin this cat, but this seems to work fine for me.
Another shot of the setup..
I empty about 1 gallon of water a day and simply add makeup salt via a net hanging in my sump...
Just hoping to give some of you battling eradic PH spikes with a solution that doesn't cost an arm and a leg..
Later,
Jim
Well I recently added a Reefkeeper Light to my setup. Main reason is I wanted a way to control my PH, as it would dip a little lower than I liked at times.. Well here is what I have done and it seems to keep things nicely in check, and compliments my wet skimmate water changes.
First the setup:
(01) Aqualifter
(01) Ph Controller (Reefpkeeper Lite for me )
Here's how it works. If my PH goes below 8.19, the PH controller turns on my Aqualifter. It removes saltwater from my sump. As it removes saltwater from my sump into my 5 gallon wet skimmate bucket, my kent float valve opens, and allows Kalk to drip very slowly at the same rate my Aqualifter is set via a Micro Air Adjuster.
Here are some picture of the results (6 hour results of my PH today)
I use a aqualifter prefilter so the diaphram doesn't get clogged
Here's the collection bucket. If anything goes crazy the venturi from my skimmer will suck water back into the fuge and stop kalk from dripping . I realize this is not optimal, and there are other ways to skin this cat, but this seems to work fine for me.
Another shot of the setup..
I empty about 1 gallon of water a day and simply add makeup salt via a net hanging in my sump...
Just hoping to give some of you battling eradic PH spikes with a solution that doesn't cost an arm and a leg..
Later,
Jim
Last edited:
jonnybravo22
New member
question! i tend to agree with the logic behind wet skimmate being dirtier water than a normal water change.
by this logic, curious to know why some people choose to do very dry skimmate? i know it looks cool, but isnt it less effective just given the longer time horizon that it takes to pull stuff out / less volume it removes? just wondering.
by this logic, curious to know why some people choose to do very dry skimmate? i know it looks cool, but isnt it less effective just given the longer time horizon that it takes to pull stuff out / less volume it removes? just wondering.
wet and dry skimmate have different components of detrius which is why some people run two skimmers, one wet and one dry, however regarding the use of skimmate to perform water changes it is more effective to run your skimmer wet since it is being replaced with fresh seawater based on it's volume and not it's density
fishoutawater
New member
I tried this weekend before last. Worked great. Changed 5 gallons in just about 12 hours. I could have gone wetter and done it faster but I wasn't in any hurry. For the next week I only skimmed out a quart of skimmate. When the weekend arrived I got setup to do another 5 gallons but,... no matter how wet I set my skimmer, I could only get about 1 gallon for the entire weekend. I checked airdraw on the skimmer and water output, everything seemed normal. I have a 40gal. breeder with about 60lbs live rock, about 50 gal total system volume, and 5 fish all under 4 inches. Could there just be nothing left to skim?
however regarding the use of skimmate to perform water changes it is more effective to run your skimmer wet since it is being replaced with fresh seawater based on it's volume and not it's density
Sorry, I can't understand the logic. What does that mean?
by this logic, curious to know why some people choose to do very dry skimmate? i know it looks cool, but isnt it less effective just given the longer time horizon that it takes to pull stuff out / less volume it removes? just wondering.
If you are not set up to do it, then replacing the salt water frequently can be a pain, and dry skimmate is more efficient in terms of organics removed per unit of salt and/or salt water.
Sorry, I can't understand the logic. What does that mean?
by this logic, curious to know why some people choose to do very dry skimmate? i know it looks cool, but isnt it less effective just given the longer time horizon that it takes to pull stuff out / less volume it removes? just wondering.
If you are not set up to do it, then replacing the salt water frequently can be a pain, and dry skimmate is more efficient in terms of organics removed per unit of salt and/or salt water.
Agreed. I just did not understand the mention of density.
Gregster
New member
Just a question from a newbie here.
Is it possible that at any given time there is only so much skimmable organic matter in a system at a given time and in doing this concentrated waste/water change, what your seeing is just the same amount of skimmable organic waste as normal skimming produces with the exception that it is diluted by the extra water passing thru the protein skimmer due to it being dialed up?
ie; one spoon of instant tea can taint a lot of water.
I love the concept and have considered implementing it in a future system, but I can't seem to get past my thoughts on this being a possible illusion.
Maybe re-skimming the concentrated waste water again to remove the waste under normal duty thru the same skimmer might shed some insight as to what amount is really being removed compared to an average amount (same time duration) of standard duty skimming?
Is it possible that at any given time there is only so much skimmable organic matter in a system at a given time and in doing this concentrated waste/water change, what your seeing is just the same amount of skimmable organic waste as normal skimming produces with the exception that it is diluted by the extra water passing thru the protein skimmer due to it being dialed up?
ie; one spoon of instant tea can taint a lot of water.
I love the concept and have considered implementing it in a future system, but I can't seem to get past my thoughts on this being a possible illusion.
Maybe re-skimming the concentrated waste water again to remove the waste under normal duty thru the same skimmer might shed some insight as to what amount is really being removed compared to an average amount (same time duration) of standard duty skimming?
Is it possible that at any given time there is only so much skimmable organic matter in a system at a given time and in doing this concentrated waste/water change, what your seeing is just the same amount of skimmable organic waste as normal skimming produces with the exception that it is diluted by the extra water passing thru the protein skimmer due to it being dialed up?
That is certainly possible, yes. I can't see a downside, but there is little demonstrated proof (at least that I have seen) of how much more effective is wet skimming.
That is certainly possible, yes. I can't see a downside, but there is little demonstrated proof (at least that I have seen) of how much more effective is wet skimming.
the concept here is simply to replace your most "dirty" water (skimmate) with fresh seawater
Gregster
New member
For sure it is a cool set-up, and I understand the requirement to use saltwater to replenish with.
I was just trying to see what the benefits were to implementing this technique from a water quality perspective, because it appears to me that if a skimmer is properly running, it is removing waste already, so I can't understand the benefit/advatage of wet skimming a water change.
I'm not trying to put it down, just trying to understand.
-Greg.
The proposed advantage is that very wet skimming removes as much or hopefully more organic material as an ordinary water change plus the same skimmer set to a dryer skimmate. It cannot really remove less, if done properly, and the hope for more is reasonable. So it is just an "improved" way of doing water changes.
I discuss such issues with respect to wet skimming here:
What is Skimming?
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-08/rhf/index.php
from it:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-08/rhf/index.php#21
Wet vs. Dry Skimming
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Foam draining is a critical stage for most skimmers. One problem with drainage is that some organics are washed away with the draining water. There is always an equilibrium between organics in solution, and those actually attached to the interface. As water continues to drain, some of the organics are lost. Further, as some bubbles pop and their organics are redistributed into the nearby water, the local concentration of organics in the water between the bubbles in the foam can rise to concentrations far higher than are present in the aquarium. For this reason, the most effective skimming, in terms of total organic removal, comes from removing somewhat wet foam, rather than waiting for this same wet foam to drain prior to removal. The primary difference between wet foam, and drained dry foam, is that additional water and some organics have drained away. A dry form is more efficient in terms of the amount of organic removed in relation to the water volume, and all skimmers and their potential adjustments strike some balance between removing more water and slightly more organics, or less water and slightly fewer organics. Perhaps a careful analysis of different types of skimming will, in the future, show this expected result experimentally.
I discuss such issues with respect to wet skimming here:
What is Skimming?
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-08/rhf/index.php
from it:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-08/rhf/index.php#21
Wet vs. Dry Skimming
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Foam draining is a critical stage for most skimmers. One problem with drainage is that some organics are washed away with the draining water. There is always an equilibrium between organics in solution, and those actually attached to the interface. As water continues to drain, some of the organics are lost. Further, as some bubbles pop and their organics are redistributed into the nearby water, the local concentration of organics in the water between the bubbles in the foam can rise to concentrations far higher than are present in the aquarium. For this reason, the most effective skimming, in terms of total organic removal, comes from removing somewhat wet foam, rather than waiting for this same wet foam to drain prior to removal. The primary difference between wet foam, and drained dry foam, is that additional water and some organics have drained away. A dry form is more efficient in terms of the amount of organic removed in relation to the water volume, and all skimmers and their potential adjustments strike some balance between removing more water and slightly more organics, or less water and slightly fewer organics. Perhaps a careful analysis of different types of skimming will, in the future, show this expected result experimentally.
lets compare the two
1. Convention water change: removes aquarium water and replaces it with fresh seawater
2. Wet skimmate water change: removes skimmate water and replaces it with fresh seawater
skimmate water has much more organics per unit volume than aquarium water, which is why wet skimmate water changes are more effective than conventional water changes at removing organics
1. Convention water change: removes aquarium water and replaces it with fresh seawater
2. Wet skimmate water change: removes skimmate water and replaces it with fresh seawater
skimmate water has much more organics per unit volume than aquarium water, which is why wet skimmate water changes are more effective than conventional water changes at removing organics
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