What Exactly is Old Tank Syndrome ?
- Thread starter Reef Frog
- Start date
Reef Frog
New member
Since part of doing water changes is removing water from the tank, you won't build up elements by doing water changes
Hmm. Well it's Friday & didn't think that one through apparently! I guess that's possible unless one is adding supplements or there are impurities or additives from dosing calcium or magnesium supplements! But that seems unlikely too.
krzyphsygy
Active member
Does any one dose any bacteria? Or add any from time to time?
elegance coral
They call me EC
I am impressed by the direction this thread has taken. Several years ago it would have been much different. There would have been all kinds of theories proposed. Not enough sand bed infauna, sand not deep enough, not enough clean up crew, lack of biodiversity, lack of nutrients, fuge not big enough........ It's good to see that we're getting away from this type of thinking.
I like the "LARS" thing, but don't think that's the case with every old tank problem. I make a living, at least in part, by helping people through tank problems. What I often find is that the problem isn't laziness. Usually, when it is laziness, the reefer already knows what the problem is. The problem is often a product of misinformation, or a lack of understanding. Many hobbyists that I talk to are afraid of water changes, or doing much of anything to their systems. They fear that they will remove to many "good" bacteria, or to much of the needed nutrients in the system, or that a large water change may shock and kill everything in the tank. All of which is simply absurd.
The reality is that we shouldn't call this OTS (old tank syndrome) It should be called DTS (dirty tank syndrome). Tanks don't suffer because they get old. They suffer because they get dirty. Just as with any other animal we keep in a small enclosure, if we force them to live in their own filth, they are highly likely to become ill and die. If we keep that enclosure clean, the animal is much more likely to live a long healthy life. In this regard, coral and fish are no different that hamsters and birds, or virtually any other animal we keep in small enclosures.
The reason that many tanks run into problems after they have aged a bit, is that the maintenance and filtration simply isn't quite keeping up. (NOTHING IS PERFECT) Lets say the maintenance and filtration is handling 99% of the organic / nutrient / waste build up over a weeks time. That means that 1% of the food we add in that week remains within the system. Now 1% isn't enough to do much of anything, so while the tank is young, everything seems great. It isn't until that 1% is added to the 1% from the week before, and to the week before that, and ................. Over time, this can build to problem causing levels. Often the hobbyist is confused. They've been doing their weekly 10% water change, ritualistically, just like the book told them to. They're doing everything "right", and don't understand why their tank is going down hill. We need to start looking at the home we provide to our coral and fish more like our own homes. We all have routine maintenance we perform in our homes. We sweep, mop, dust, do the dishes, and take out the garbage. Rarely is this sufficient to keep up. Over time filth just manages to build up. This is when we do our "spring cleaning". We wash down door jams, take the curtains down and wash them, move the furniture and clean under it....... We should be doing the same thing to our systems. Periodically do a LARGE water change, clean the crud out of the bottom of those overflow boxes, clean the sump, skimmer body, and all those other devices, get behind the rocks and remove the crud that's there. If everyone could start doing this, OTS would become a thing of the past.
Peace:wavehand:
EC
I like the "LARS" thing, but don't think that's the case with every old tank problem. I make a living, at least in part, by helping people through tank problems. What I often find is that the problem isn't laziness. Usually, when it is laziness, the reefer already knows what the problem is. The problem is often a product of misinformation, or a lack of understanding. Many hobbyists that I talk to are afraid of water changes, or doing much of anything to their systems. They fear that they will remove to many "good" bacteria, or to much of the needed nutrients in the system, or that a large water change may shock and kill everything in the tank. All of which is simply absurd.
The reality is that we shouldn't call this OTS (old tank syndrome) It should be called DTS (dirty tank syndrome). Tanks don't suffer because they get old. They suffer because they get dirty. Just as with any other animal we keep in a small enclosure, if we force them to live in their own filth, they are highly likely to become ill and die. If we keep that enclosure clean, the animal is much more likely to live a long healthy life. In this regard, coral and fish are no different that hamsters and birds, or virtually any other animal we keep in small enclosures.
The reason that many tanks run into problems after they have aged a bit, is that the maintenance and filtration simply isn't quite keeping up. (NOTHING IS PERFECT) Lets say the maintenance and filtration is handling 99% of the organic / nutrient / waste build up over a weeks time. That means that 1% of the food we add in that week remains within the system. Now 1% isn't enough to do much of anything, so while the tank is young, everything seems great. It isn't until that 1% is added to the 1% from the week before, and to the week before that, and ................. Over time, this can build to problem causing levels. Often the hobbyist is confused. They've been doing their weekly 10% water change, ritualistically, just like the book told them to. They're doing everything "right", and don't understand why their tank is going down hill. We need to start looking at the home we provide to our coral and fish more like our own homes. We all have routine maintenance we perform in our homes. We sweep, mop, dust, do the dishes, and take out the garbage. Rarely is this sufficient to keep up. Over time filth just manages to build up. This is when we do our "spring cleaning". We wash down door jams, take the curtains down and wash them, move the furniture and clean under it....... We should be doing the same thing to our systems. Periodically do a LARGE water change, clean the crud out of the bottom of those overflow boxes, clean the sump, skimmer body, and all those other devices, get behind the rocks and remove the crud that's there. If everyone could start doing this, OTS would become a thing of the past.
Peace:wavehand:
EC
krzyphsygy
Active member
Good write up! Very true also. After my 100% water change, and spring cleaning...my tank looks great. Next I need to clean my return pump and overflow boxes.
Thanks for keeping it simple!
Thanks for keeping it simple!
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igot2gats
Deeeetroit Basketball!
My take on what Julian is saying: just not keeping up on maintaining pumps, water changes, etc. If all equipment and maintenance is kept up, I'm not a believer that OTS can happen.
I understand that it does, but can be avoided.
this was a good read
http://************.com/2015/11/07/tank-syndrome-revisited/
http://************.com/2015/11/07/tank-syndrome-revisited/
ok lets try it again
http://************.com/2015/11/07/tank-syndrome-revisited/
http://************.com/2015/11/07/tank-syndrome-revisited/
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Sorry gentlemen but you guys looking in the wrong subject
... Answer is very simple is about depleting bio electricity a.k.a. blueprint .
when you're looking very closely how everything works in nature and how nature can rejuvenate himself after big crashes question is how nature do it ....
Reef aquariums are only a very small bio system and will never be similar like oceans ...
Water changes that will help a little bit but only to deplete use chemicals ..
Unfortunately Bio system like bacteria's and another small creature cannot involve without nature bioelectricity ... Is all about nature stupid .....
... Answer is very simple is about depleting bio electricity a.k.a. blueprint .
when you're looking very closely how everything works in nature and how nature can rejuvenate himself after big crashes question is how nature do it ....
Reef aquariums are only a very small bio system and will never be similar like oceans ...
Water changes that will help a little bit but only to deplete use chemicals ..
Unfortunately Bio system like bacteria's and another small creature cannot involve without nature bioelectricity ... Is all about nature stupid .....
Not sure what you are talking about. What is bioelectricity?
When the software is automatically censoring something, that should be a hint not to find ways around those *****
When the software is automatically censoring something, that should be a hint not to find ways around those *****
I guess
slief
RC Sponsor
I agree 100%.. Old tank syndrome as it would be called would be the result of neglecting to take care of the tank and allowing it to become dirty for too long to the point that the waste and organics bind with the substrate and rocks. Things like regular water changes and maintenance can help alleviate that. Good flow that prevents stuff from settling can also help to mitigate it provided you have a means of exporting it.
My tank has been up and running for about 18 years and is healthier than ever. My fish thrive as to my corals. I attribute my tanks health to the combination of a number of factors. The key after all these years is cleanliness and the way my tank has been maintained for all these years. This is in part the result of very good flow that prevents waste from settling. Filter socks to remove the solids that get suspended and sent over the overflow. This in turn results in a cleaner sump. Without the socks, regular vacuuming of the sump would be needed otherwise, the detritus would make it's way back through the display.. A very good protein skimmer that does it's job in helping to remove dissolved organics from the water. In all my years in this hobby, a good protein skimmer was never a corner I cut. Regular daily automated water changes that help maintain pristine water quality. A huge well established bacterial bed within my several hundred pounds of live rock as well as my good sized deep sand/mud bed in one of my refugiums. UV filtration that helps oxidize organics. While I wouldn't consider some of the above to be a necessity, it is the combination of all of the above that I attribute to my tanks health at it's current age. Every little bit helps. Especially when it comes to long term health.
My tank has a pretty heavy fish load with over 60 fish. Many of which are larger tangs and such. I have been overfeeding for many many years. Despite that, I have no nuisance algae issues, no detectable nitrates, I don't carbon dose or use nitrate reactors and my water changes are only about 20% per month or 5 gallons a day. I do however run carbon and GFO and address elevated Po4 on an as needed basis. I'm not great about my GFO change intervals and due to my heaving feeding, my Po4 does tend to creep up slowly. About every 10 months I dose 5ml of Lanthanum Chloride mixed into 1 liter of RODI water using an IV bag. I dose the mixture at a rate of 1 drop per second directly into 10 micron filter socks. This process reduces my Po4 levels in my 650G system from about .10-.12 down to about .04-.06 over the course of about 8 hours. I am sure if I changed my GFO out ever 2 weeks, this wouldn't be needed but I don't change it nearly often enough and have had good success for the last several years using my current method.
Bottom line... If you take good care of your system and prevent waste and nutrients from accumulating, old tank syndrome in a properly designed and well appointed system should be a non issue. In fact, based on my experience, it should be the opposite. A well cared for and properly designed and maintained system is like a fine wine. It will only get better with age.
pilot.darren
New member
I agree with the buildup in the sand bed. while doing a wc vac the sand.
krzyphsygy
Active member
How exactly do you vacuum sand?
