What to feed...acropora frag

[vr697getta]

nice set up
just one question is that a Panther Grouper and is it in your tank
i see you want to upgrade to a larger tank and thats good that fish can grow to over 1.5 feet
but it is a awesome though

 

[Peter Eichler]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12377360#post12377360 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by newclean
I think I'm feeling it now. I will continue to feed cyclopeez and no longer phytoplankton (good thing because I left it out of the fridge last night) and supplement with other fresh frozen and dry foods. When the animals in the system mature and diversify and grow to maximize the efficient renewal of nutrients, I will feed less, and maintain an environment that is less friendly to pathogens.

Thank you all!

I'd suggest picking up some DT's oyster eggs if you really want to feed your SPS. Cyclopeeze in most cases probably has too large of a micron size to be useful for many SPS.

 

[newclean]

I hit the reset form button...thought it was a preview post button....so short and sweet

Peter,

I'm right on top of that...pick it up Monday.

vr697getta,

Yes. I know, I know, I know. Building 166 gal....hope he will coexist with sps.

capn_hylinur,

thanks for the kind words.

tmz,

We'll see...

TY,
C

 

[newclean]

When I feed cyclpeeze, both acro frags string a mucus from various polyps, and I see small clumps along the mucus string, where I suppose some of the cyclpeeze got snagged. The mucus blows off within a couple hours.
Is the animal showing a feeding response? If so, is the animal benefiting?

I have a second acro frag that was dying in the LFS tank. The frag was loose, and propped between rock cracks in the LFS tank. I super glued (gel) the base of the frag to a oyster shell.

I notice that the second frag has some completely dead tissue around its base (lower left in picture). There is just white skeleton in the dead areas.

Should I seal those by applying super glue all over them? Will the frag contract diseases through its unsealed skeleton?

Thank you,
Carson

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12457466#post12457466 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by newclean
When I feed cyclpeeze, both acro frags string a mucus from various polyps, and I see small clumps along the mucus string, where I suppose some of the cyclpeeze got snagged. The mucus blows off within a couple hours.
Is the animal showing a feeding response? If so, is the animal benefiting?

I have a second acro frag that was dying in the LFS tank. The frag was loose, and propped between rock cracks in the LFS tank. I super glued (gel) the base of the frag to a oyster shell.

I notice that the second frag has some completely dead tissue around its base (lower left in picture). There is just white skeleton in the dead areas.

Should I seal those by applying super glue all over them? Will the frag contract diseases through its unsealed skeleton?

Thank you,
Carson

i would snip the dead branch off with a pair of snipping pliers--you don't want to leave dead tissue on a healthy coral

 

[tmz]

Natural shading as the coral grows can cause some areas to die out.or it could be stn(slow tisuue necrosis) which can become rtn (rapid tissue necrosis)Watch it closely if it starts to spread , cut it about a quarter of an inch above the death into healthy tissue and administer a lugol's or tmpc dip.

I've seen mine put out mucous nets when I stir up the detrius or when I feed. As long as you have some good flow, I don't think I'd worry. If the mucous lingers it may be come a source for infection.
I don't know for sure if the coral is feeding but it seems so.

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12460183#post12460183 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tmz
Natural shading as the coral grows can cause some areas to die out.or it could be stn(slow tisuue necrosis) which can become rtn (rapid tissue necrosis)Watch it closely if it starts to spread , cut it about a quarter of an inch above the death into healthy tissue and administer a lugol's or tmpc dip.

I've seen mine put out mucous nets when I stir up the detrius or when I feed. As long as you have some good flow, I don't think I'd worry. If the mucous lingers it may be come a source for infection.
I don't know for sure if the coral is feeding but it seems so.

what is that mucous net--defensive mechanism---I thought they relied on touching another coral for killing the competition

 

[newclean]

Okay, thats what I was afraid of....

I will snip it and dip it. There will be two tiny frags, and about 15% of its healthy tissue will have to be discarded.

I can use super glue or epoxy putty. Which should I use? How do I prevent the same thing from happening right where I snipped it?

Also, before I do this....What about just covering and sealing the dead tissue with super glue? Isn't this what I will do when I frag it, just on a smaller region?

Thank you very much,
Carson

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12460476#post12460476 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by newclean
Okay, thats what I was afraid of....

I will snip it and dip it. There will be two tiny frags, and about 15% of its healthy tissue will have to be discarded.

I can use super glue or epoxy putty. Which should I use? How do I prevent the same thing from happening right where I snipped it?

Also, before I do this....What about just covering and sealing the dead tissue with super glue? Isn't this what I will do when I frag it, just on a smaller region?

Thank you very much,
Carson

I would just make sure I snipped below the level of necrosiss
as far as gluing the frag down--your call on expoxy or super glue
I would not add super glue etc to the wound area--why burn more good tissue
As far as placing it back in the same position--how did you acclimatize this coral in the first place?

 

[tmz]

Again, unless it is progressing you don't have to cut it. The way fragging sometimes prevents spreading is by getting ahead of the necrosis by cutting away good tissue which you hope is not yet infected.
I have read about using epoxy in the wild to save infected porites. A ring of expoxy is placed into good tissue ahead of the infection. I tried this once on a stylopora with success. The spread stopped wether the expoxy did that or it was coincidence is hard to prove.

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12460599#post12460599 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tmz
Again, unless it is progressing you don't have to cut it. The way fragging sometimes prevents spreading is by getting ahead of the necrosis by cutting away good tissue which you hope is not yet infected.
I have read about using epoxy in the wild to save infected porites. A ring of expoxy is placed into good tissue ahead of the infection. I tried this once on a stylopora with success. The spread stopped wether the expoxy did that or it was coincidence is hard to prove.

IMO you are setting up good tissue for further necrosis by killing it with expoxy
but your the expert here

 

[newclean]

Its under eggcrate and two layers of screen. I will remove one layer of screen on monday (1 week), next layer next monday (2 weeks), and finaly the eggcrate in 3 weeks. All the while the photoperiod has been climbing by 30 min each day but that will be finished in 4 days.

The distraught frag was very pale and had only barely visible retracted polyps. In my tank since monday, it has gained some color (brown) and doubled the size and probably the mass of its polyps.

This necrosis or dead tissue is an issue the coral developed laying on its side in the LFS display. I had to assure the kid that it was still alive. Only the manager even knew it was there. Got it for 5.99.

I still don't understand how I can completely eliminate some sort of exposed skeleton by cutting the frag. The trauma from crushing on the coral will surely result in death of tissue. And, if the super glue does in fact, burn the tissue on its perimeter then a ring of exposed skeleton will be created. right? Can the tissue spread back onto its own dead skeleton?

Maybe the ring of dead tissue cannot be avoided, and when the skeleton is exposed, the frag is very susceptible to disease. And, then maybe the coral will encrust, rather than reoccupy its exposed skeleton, and completely seal it off. So after the snip and dip, while the coral is vulnerable, I need to do regular dips in lugols.

 

[tmz]

Exposed skeleton is only exposed skelton,plain naked calcium carbonate. It will not rot or spread infection. The tissue that grows over it is the coral colony. If death in the tissue is not spreading I would not cut it at all.

 

[mixed_reefer]

Yes tissue can grow back over skeleton as it will anything else. You dont have to seal anything up with glue, exposed skeleton will just grow over with tissue so to speak. Dont cut it for any reason UNLESS its spreading. I would not cut that coral, you say it was layin on the side in the rocks at the fish store, i think its most likely from that. Dipping an already stressed out coral might not be the smartest thing to do. With it being a new coral and coming from harsh conditions like it was, i would monitor it very closely before i took any action. Its polyps are out and it is extremely possible that it will turn itself around once acclimated to your tank and established.

 

[newclean]

Excellent!! Thank you both.

lol. If he is stressed, then he doesn't show it. He might have died on Monday at the LFS if I hadn't....nitrates were >20ppm. Mine are .02ppm.

I am taking pictures every day so in a week...

 

[tmz]

I belive the idea behind an expoxy ring is the same as fragging. In one you amputate by cutting in the other by sealing it off.
In both, you kill some good tissue on the periphery as cleanly as you can and hope to seal off the infection without strating a new one.In both cases a key word is hope,since the infection may have already contaminated tissue that appears healthy Lugol's or tmpc dips may or may not help but are accepted practice. A fresh water dip will likely kill and sps very quickly.
The article I read conerned reef conservation efforts on massive porites which would otherwise require and undersea jackhammer to frag. When I did this to a stylopora, the coral was suffering from a very slow necrotic condition that kept moving forward a milimeter or so per day. There was no way to frag it without being left with little bits so I tried the epoxywith success.
Cap'n I'm no expert but do work with sps a good deal and I am still learning. Thanks for the compliment but as you know the fun in this hobby is in large measure the learning that comes with it.

BTW if I can take the coral out of the tank to frag it I prefer to cut it with a diamond wheel bit on a dremmel(clean cut) rather than crushing and ripping with snip like cutters. I do use the snip type when the coral can't be removedto frag right in the tank.

 

[newclean]

I picked up two more frags today from the same LFS, $9.99 for both. They are rumored to be A. Humilis. Here are some pictures of them being acclimated. I had to glue them right out of the bag, since they too were loose and laying on their sides. I did not remove the dead skeleton because I have decided that I need a dremel with a cutting wheel first, then the frag will suffer less collateral damage...Thanks Tom (tmz). But cutting off their uninhabited skeletons doesn't appeal to me anyhow, unless the live tissue is receding.

I will take daily pictures of the individual frags in my tank, its 4 now...well 5 if you count the zoas...and 7 if you count 3 diff zoas on the rock, but I will just take daily pics of the acros....So, tune in next week for "Feed the Acros."

Carson

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12460770#post12460770 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tmz
Exposed skeleton is only exposed skelton,plain naked calcium carbonate. It will not rot or spread infection. The tissue that grows over it is the coral colony. If death in the tissue is not spreading I would not cut it at all.

but how do you know that Tom--how do you know some of the infections or bacteria is festering under the unexposed skeleton

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12460837#post12460837 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tmz


Cap'n I'm no expert but do work with sps a good deal and I am still learning. Thanks for the compliment but as you know the fun in this hobby is in large measure the learning that comes with it.

we share the same perspectives on alot of things Tom:smokin:

but I will be the first to admit I have learned more from you then most others here:smokin:

 

[tmz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12464364#post12464364 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
but how do you know that Tom--how do you know some of the infections or bacteria is festering under the unexposed skeleton

I don't know it.
If the coral is slouging off tissue it's a good bet that the infection is virulent requiring aggressive treatment.Rtn requires almost immediate fragging and even then the frags have a slim chance of survival. You can see it move within hours and it can strip a coral to bare skeliton overnight.Sometimes it's agood idea to frag a few tips of a half inch to an inch in addition to any larger frags. I chopped up a pretty purple Acropora gemifera about a year ago. Out of the five frags one tiny tip survived and rewarded me with a new colony, currently 3 inches
If on the other hand there is a dead spot some old and even some some new in a shaded area it requires observation. If you wan't to cut away the dead spot for aesthetics or to act against potential spreading you can but every fragging particulary on a newly acclimated specimen carries risk. I have some large colonies that are flourishing and many have dead areas that have been shaded over.

Then there is STN which moves slowly a milimeter a day perhaps and may stop on it's own or may accelerate.. At some point you have to make a judgement.

Generally when I think a coral is in jepardy I'l lean towards fragging it sooner rather than later but not always.