What you need to know about copper and coral

[IridescentLily]

Total copper includes all forms of copper including the less toxic organic forms. The salt mixes contain the inorganic forms of copper, which is why it is recommended to only change say 30% of your tank water or less at a time.

Running GAC if your are not currently doing this will help remove the organic forms of copper. Running Cuprisorb and polyfilters will remove the inorganic forms of copper which are much more toxic to our organisms. One reason why it is not recommended to add too much of the alk, calcium and mag supplements at one time.

out.

Wow. I wasn't aware, now i know why it's always suggested not to do many large water changes in a row.
And i also didn't know the 'whys' about GAC vs. cuprisorb or polyfilter.
Many thanks for sharing your knowledge.

 

[andyrm66]

X2, thank you! Picked up a cuprasorb pad today. Running it in the filter sock.

 

[HighlandReefer]

You're welcome.

Glad I can help.

 

[Aquarist007]

Wow. I wasn't aware, now i know why it's always suggested not to do many large water changes in a row.
And i also didn't know the 'whys' about GAC vs. cuprisorb or polyfilter.
Many thanks for sharing your knowledge.

of what impact is there on new tank setups or tank rebuilds where 50 to 60 per cent of the water might be changed with new salt water

 

[tmz]

Some of the salt mixes include some organics ; some folks call call them vitamins. I think it's an effort at a sort of metals impurity safety net for tanks that don't have enough ligands to take care of the free metals. Still, I'd be careful abut large water changes.

Large changes also risk upsetting other elemental balances.

New tanks should cycle before putting living things in them allowing time for metal adsorbtion by ligands as well as the more well known nitrogen cycle. Fish are less sensitive to copper and some other metals than invertebrates are. So, for qt tanks using new water,for example , free metals are less of a concern than in reef tanks. Copper can harm corals at very low ranges, parts per billion.
Other metals are potential hazards too.
FWIW I do 1% changes per day with 5% once in a while associated with maintenance.

 

[greenvillecoins]

wierd stuff

wierd stuff

sorry the pics are dark but you can still see the brown stuff this stuff is collecting in the lines to the filter and on the power heads looks like dark potted meat stuff,,,i know nast refference but once i touch it it flys all over the tank.... i havent changed the filter or charchol this month yet and i did post under the chemical thread that might explain more please help if you can,,,,thanks so much ken[/ATTACH][/ATTACH]

 

[HighlandReefer]

Looks like bacterial biofilms growing, especially if it is growing in lines that don't get light. JUst clean them up. The yellow stuff is some other organism growing. Again keep it clean.

 

[greenvillecoins]

thanks so much im gonna take the cannister apart and soak it with the lines in viniger tommorow,,, with the power heads...can someone give me advise on where to place the powerheads and in what direction to benifit the tank the most.....its a 55...now it looks like its blowing everything around to much....

 

[bertoni]

Can you post a video of your tank? If there's too much motion, you'll likely need to replace or tune down the powerheads. Changing the output direction only does so much.

 

[greenvillecoins]

sure ill do it when the lights go on at 12 never posted a video but ill try should be the same as reg, pic post...

 

[BuckeyeFrags26]

A big thanks to everyone that has weighed in on this topic. I have a found out alot from this thread and appreciate everyones input. thanks again!


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[sdube]

I don’t know why I didn’t read this post before, very interesting. I am doing a lot of analysis here up north for the last year and just wanted to share with you some of the finding I did. You have to excuse my poor English because I am French. I don’t qualify myself as a specialist in marine chemistry but I know a lot in metals testing.

All the analysis I did were done with an ICPMS with CRC. In short, it is an ICP with a mass spectra detector and equip with a collision cell and reaction cell to remove all of the interferences bind to regular ICPMS. The result, I can go pretty low in detection limit. I have to do a 1 to 10 dilution of the salt water because of the high concentration of dissolve solids. So actually my detection limits is 0.02 ug/l for regular water and 0.2 ug/l for salt water.

What I have saw so far, I tested my aquarium over 50 times over the last year for more than 35 metals and copper is one of them. At the beginning the copper value was fluctuating between 10 and 20 ppb for the first 3 months. After that the level was lower and fluctuating between <0.2 ug/l and 7 ug/l. I don’t add any metals commercial supplement, I just do the regular Calcium, Alk and Magnesium of pharmaceutical grade. The fluctuation was mainly because of water change and cleaning or addition like GFO or GAG.

I have test many supplement of those for trace metals and the highest one is the magnesium supplement with one brand reaching 173 ug/l.

I have test also many brands (9) of saltwater and some from three different lot numbers and the value were between 0.7 ug/l to 13 ug/l, so not pretty high.

I have test many hobbyist tank and the copper, except in one case after a GAG poisoning ) were in the correct range from 5 to 20 ug/l.

Hope you like my post, any question, feel free

 

[tmz]

sdube

Thankyou for sharing your results.

When testing for metals does your method measure metals bound to organics ,free metals or both?Free metals are toxic but most of them bind with organics in a short time in reef tanks. Some are assimilated by liing things or exported along with organics or bound to substances like gfo

 

[sdube]

Hi TMZ

Yes sample goes through a plasma (7000 Celcius), so it read both free and bind copper

 

[jason12345]

This is probably a really noob question for you guys but I am attempting to understand this.

So you guy's do not recommend large water changes due to the ~7 ppb of copper in it? Randy, you said your tank sits at about 15 ppb, wouldn't water changes be good to dilute this 15pbb? Or is it not recommended because the copper in water changes is inorganic and more toxic then what is in Randy's tank?

Also if Water changes always have this 7pbb, So is this why you are suggesting reefers to constantly remove copper?
Thanks guys!

 

[bertoni]

I avoid large water changes, but not due to the copper. That level might be safe enough, although more of the copper in fresh saltwater might be inorganic, as you've noted.

I don't think there's any need to have special copper removal media for most tanks. Such media, like CupriSorb, might be useful in a tank that has been contaminated with copper, though.

 

[jason12345]

Thank you for the reply, defiantly appreciated.

 

[bertoni]

You're welcome!

 

[tmz]

What I have saw so far, I tested my aquarium over 50 times over the last year for more than 35 metals and copper is one of them. At the beginning the copper value was fluctuating between 10 and 20 ppb for the first 3 months. After that the level was lower and fluctuating between <0.2 ug/l and 7 ug/l. I don’t add any metals commercial supplement, I just do the regular Calcium, Alk and Magnesium of pharmaceutical grade. The fluctuation was mainly because of water change and cleaning or addition like GFO or GAG.

Where do you think the copper is going: gac/gfo export , consumption by organisms or sunk elsewhere?

 

[SantaMonica]

Bacteria and algae will help remove copper when they are skimmed out

Don't forget that algae in general consumes copper when the algae is harvested in a fuge or scrubber.