What's A Good LED System?

[shred5]

In Leds vs halide or even T5, watts are not equal in terms of brightness or heat produced. If it makes less heat per watt, it by default produces more light per watt. A 1000w halide is regularly replaced by a 300w led in horticulture situations.

The disadvantage of halides is they throw light everywhere, They waste allot of light, it is not necessarily they put out less light. Some of the light is lost as it is directed back at the bulb and some is lost on the walls. Yes there is a little bit of efficiency.

When we switched to T-5 from T-10 or t-12 was not necessarily that they produced more light the smaller bulb allowed for better reflectors which made better efficiency so the bulbs could be less wattage.

With all light there are advantages and disadvantages.

The advantage led is they are like a beam of light and very directional. They can light up a desk really well. Now move them into a warehouse with high racks and they are not that great because they do not do vertical very well because they are directional. You could not see the racks and labels on them. They make the place look like a cave too, so now some are being made to have up-light which means more watts and more leds.

The thing is people say I use so much less on my tank but your not getting as good of a lighting job. Shading is a issue as corals grow and not as obvious with smaller sps or softies . It is becoming less of a issue now but the fixtures are changing to help with shading. As the fixtures evolve to combat this shading they are loosing the advantage.

For example:

Radion XR30 gen2 140 watts
Gen 3 150w Gen 3 pro 170w
Gen 4 pro 190 watts
Gen 5 pro 215 watts

Neptune sky 219 watts.

etc

Up and up but the lighting job they do has improved.


The disadvantage for halides was also a advantage in some situation by bouncing light all around they lit the sides of our corals. There was less shading.
Fluorescent fixtures was the best at lighting the sides of our corals because it was a wall of light. That is how it is starting to go with led fixtures in the hobby look at the top fixtures..
Look at Philips Coral care or Neptune sky, Orphek Atlantic iCon. Look at the Radions no longer being pucks.

Led fixtures as they try to get more versatile and do a better lighting job instead of just putting allot of light straight down are going up in wattage.

 

[Anemone]

In Leds vs halide or even T5, watts are not equal in terms of brightness or heat produced. If it makes less heat per watt, it by default produces more light per watt. A 1000w halide is regularly replaced by a 300w led in horticulture situations.

I'm not a physicist, but I seem to remember something about electrical energy being transformed into either light or heat, so it would make sense to me that for the same wattage, more light energy would mean less heat energy. My 300 Watt heater doesn't produce much light at all...

Kevin

 

[griss]

Kevin, have you looked at the PopBloom RL90’s? They appear to be knockoffs of the Red Sea LEDs. I don’t know anything about them but, PopBloom has been airing on eBay for a very long time.

 

[wvned]

Not to pick on anyone (like the OP) but you can't buy only one light and push it to maximum spread and expect stellar results.
I admit I watched a lot of the BRS light reviews about placement, coverage and par.
The vast majority of lights in the 90-100 something range are designed to cover 24x24 inches of tank. Many do much better if you add 1 extra with shadowing and the ends.
I think you could put together many different combinations of lights that would work now.
Only a cube tank under 24 inches on a side is going to work with only one. There are lights that violate that rule like my Photon V2 that is the same width as the tank. I almost used them on the 240 but the price had greatly increased and I was never totally happy with the color of the LEDs in the white channel. I like a 10k look and I could never get it quite right.
Small things matter with stuff you look at everyday.

 

[shred5]

Not to pick on anyone (like the OP) but you can't buy only one light and push it to maximum spread and expect stellar results.
I admit I watched a lot of the BRS light reviews about placement, coverage and par.
The vast majority of lights in the 90-100 something range are designed to cover 24x24 inches of tank. Many do much better if you add 1 extra with shadowing and the ends.
I think you could put together many different combinations of lights that would work now.
Only a cube tank under 24 inches on a side is going to work with only one. There are lights that violate that rule like my Photon V2 that is the same width as the tank. I almost used them on the 240 but the price had greatly increased and I was never totally happy with the color of the LEDs in the white channel. I like a 10k look and I could never get it quite right.
Small things matter with stuff you look at everyday.

Reef breeders Photon is a really good light with really good even coverage. I picked up 3 lights to test and that was one of them and it was impressive. I thought there would be some dico effect but there wasn't.
Very decent par but not as good as the ReeFi but great spread and even. If someone is looking at the Chinese lights this is the one I would recommend. It is a little more expensive than the others but I think worth the extra cost.
If someone is lighting a 3 foot tank this is really the only light. The 32" covers them nicely. Most other fixtures on the market would require 2 fixtures for coverage since like said they are meant for 24".

 

[wvned]

Reef breeders Photon is a really good light with really good even coverage. I picked up 3 lights to test and that was one of them and it was impressive. I thought there would be some dico effect but there wasn't.
Very decent par but not as good as the ReeFi but great spread and even. If someone is looking at the Chinese lights this is the one I would recommend. It is a little more expensive than the others but I think worth the extra cost.
If someone is lighting a 3 foot tank this is really the only light. The 32" covers them nicely. Most other fixtures on the market would require 2 fixtures for coverage since like said they are meant for 24".

So which lights are not made in China? To me any light made there is a Chinese light. Some just cost more.

The biggest difference I observed is you put 1400 watts of MH/T5 over a tank and turn it all on and everything is fine. If I ramp up my LEDs to around 60% some corals start to get really unhappy even though I am doing it over a month or 2. I turn them down a bit. It's pretty easy to see with a volley ball sized hammer coral.
I finally stopped trying to go over where I have them now. All I change is how long they are on in a day.

 

[shred5]

So which lights are not made in China? To me any light made there is a Chinese light. Some just cost more.

The biggest difference I observed is you put 1400 watts of MH/T5 over a tank and turn it all on and everything is fine. If I ramp up my LEDs to around 60% some corals start to get really unhappy even though I am doing it over a month or 2. I turn them down a bit. It's pretty easy to see with a volley ball sized hammer coral.
I finally stopped trying to go over where I have them now. All I change is how long they are on in a day.

I meant to say Chinese manufacturer lights, Chinese companies all the copy cat lights. Mainly the rebranded ones made by Evergrow.

There also is a difference between Chinese lights made in China and lights manufactured in China where quality is controlled or to a certain specification by a USA company or in a USA plant in China.

If you look at Reefbreeders lights for example there are a few others selling lights that are exactly the same. For example Semigrow or for that matter EverGrow or Tengeri etc. There is basically one plant making all these lights. You contact them and you pick yourStyle, led combo, and company name and you are now a light manufacturer. These the lights on Amazon that look the same and have like 20 different manufacturer names on them.

They also make all the strip lights that all look the same..

There is a big difference in lights. For example Kessil uses drivers made by Meanwell. The cheap Chinese fixtures use their own drivers made with cheap Chinese capacitors. Reefi uses his own drivers he designed and they are huge and heavy. There are also differences in Leds and heat sinks. Allot of the Cheap Chinese fixtures use a thin piece of sheet metal.

There are some decent Chinese lights manufacturers like Maxspect too. I was mainly talking the cheap ones that are rebranded everywhere.

Here at work if a contractor comes back with Cheap Chinese fixtures we wont approve them. If the owner want to use them it is his choice to save money we will not sign off on them. Just so you know I work in the lighting business not reef related..

By the Way Ecotech are made in USA, Kessil made in Taiwan.

​

.

 

[wvned]

I meant to say Chinese manufacturer lights, Chinese companies all the copy cat lights. Mainly the rebranded ones made by Evergrow.

There also is a difference between Chinese lights made in China and lights manufactured in China where quality is controlled or to a certain specification by a USA company or in a USA plant in China.

If you look at Reefbreeders lights for example there are a few others selling lights that are exactly the same. For example Semigrow or for that matter EverGrow or Tengeri etc. There is basically one plant making all these lights. You contact them and you pick your led combo and name and you are now a light manufacturer. There the lights on Amazon that look the same and have like 20 different manufacturer names on them.

They also make all the strip lights that all look the same..

There is a big difference in lights. For example Kessil uses drivers made by Meanwell. The cheap Chinese fixtures use their own drivers made with cheap Chinese capacitors. Reefi uses his own drivers he designed and they are huge and heavy. There are also differences in Leds and heat sinks. Allot of the Cheap Chinese fixtures use a thin piece of sheet metal.

There are some decent Chinese lights manufacturers like Maxspect too. I was mainly talking the cheap ones that are rebranded everywhere.

Here at work if a contractor comes back with Cheap Chinese fixtures we wont approve them. If the owner want to use them it is his choice to save money we will not sign off on them. Just so you know I work in the lighting business not reef related..

​

.

There used to be choice. Now there are poorly made things and somewhat nicely made things but all are made in China.
Try and find a decent kitchen knife you can sharpen. Yes I found some made in Spain with German steel.
Just so you know I am an old guy who likes nice stuff. I worked in many things. Now I loaf at many things
I will put my lights up against any you pick. I have had them in my hand and mounted them and used them for quite a while now.
I liked the first batch so well I bought more for the bigger tank. I have 10 of them. They do what I want and none have failed.
They do not feel cheap. They only cost $154 dollars each now.
I am happy. I would buy 10 more.

I should buy a couple of spares. They will fail some time in the future. Most things do.
Thanks for making me think of that.
Vortechs now come with cheep no name tiny power supplies. I was disappointed. Jebao wave makers are now much better than the ones 5 years ago. I have 8-10 of them here now.

This is from their page

MEAN WELL’s quality policy and corporate principals
Mr. Lin came up with 「明緯」as the company's Chinese name.

There have always been cheap things and well made things. The Chinese part is irrelevant these days.

As I said I am happy. Not only with my Noopsyches but also the Reefbreeders and Viparspectras. All of which make day come to the Appalachian sea. Lighting is a significant cost in this hobby but there is no need to spend 3-5 thousand dollars to do it.

 

[Timfish]

Well, just to through a couple more variables into the mix, coral respond differently (skeletal changes) to differences in lighting technology. Just like any other variable corals will demonstrate species specific (and likely genotypoe/variety) differences. Corals also have been demonstrated long term memories about environmental conditions frags of the same species/genotype/variety may react differently if the mother colonies they came from lived in different conditions. Ideally, best chance of success is to setup a system identical to the system the corals of choice grew in.

Contrasting Light Spectra Constrain the Macro and Microstructures of Scleractinian Corals

The morphological plasticity of scleractinian corals can be influenced by numerous factors in their natural environment. However, it is difficult to identify in situ the relative influence of a single biotic or abiotic factor, due to potential interactions ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Decadal environmental ‘memory’ in a reef coral?

West sides of the coral Coelastrea aspera, which had achieved thermo-tolerance after previous experience of high solar irradiance in the field, were rotated through 180o on a reef flat in Phuket, Thailand (7o50´N, 98o25.5´E), in 2000 in a

www.academia.edu

Bleaching patterns in reef corals - Nature

Coral reefs are under threat from the effects of bleaching, in which symbiotic algae or their photosynthetic pigments are destroyed by increased sea temperatures and solar radiation1,2. Here we show that the bleaching susceptibility of Goniastrea aspera, a shallow-water Indo-Pacific coral, can...

www.nature.com

Coral Coloration and Incident Light: A Photographic Essay

Departments of Chemistry and Industrial and Manufacturing Engineering, The Pennsylvania State University, University Park, PA 16802

reefs.com

 

[shred5]

There used to be choice. Now there are poorly made things and somewhat nicely made things but all are made in China.
Try and find a decent kitchen knife you can sharpen. Yes I found some made in Spain with German steel.
Just so you know I am an old guy who likes nice stuff. I worked in many things. Now I loaf at many things
I will put my lights up against any you pick. I have had them in my hand and mounted them and used them for quite a while now.
I liked the first batch so well I bought more for the bigger tank. I have 10 of them. They do what I want and none have failed.
They do not feel cheap. They only cost $154 dollars each now.
I am happy. I would buy 10 more.

I should buy a couple of spares. They will fail some time in the future. Most things do.
Thanks for making me think of that.
Vortechs now come with cheep no name tiny power supplies. I was disappointed. Jebao wave makers are now much better than the ones 5 years ago. I have 8-10 of them here now.

This is from their page

MEAN WELL’s quality policy and corporate principals
Mr. Lin came up with 「明緯」as the company's Chinese name.

There have always been cheap things and well made things. The Chinese part is irrelevant these days.

As I said I am happy. Not only with my Noopsyches but also the Reefbreeders and Viparspectras. All of which make day come to the Appalachian sea. Lighting is a significant cost in this hobby but there is no need to spend 3-5 thousand dollars to do it.

I do realize Meanwell is Chinese. I work for a Electrical consultant and about 1/3 our job is lighting buildings, and parking lots.. I am also not a young guy anymore.

I was just stating Ecotech was made in the USA. They are not quality in my opinion. Radions use mostly standard leds used in most of the led fixtures. They look like cheap plastic and are severely over priced. I do not like Mobius. I had 4 for about a year and hated them and sold them. I got a really good deal on them so I thought why not give them a try. Can they keep coral certainly they can. I am sure the farms like WWC get massive deals on these fixture's so they use them. It is great marketing so they sell. BRS is also the king of marketing. Ecotech also is not Ecotech really anymore they are Bertram Capital who owns BRS, same with Neptune.

As for Ecotech pumps they changed a while back even before they were bought and were not the quality they used to be. The shaft rust now and so do the magnets.

Price does not always equal quality. There seems to be allot that think so. There also those who like to show off their expensive stuff thinking others are impressed. Most are not.

 

[wvned]

I only post about things I have used.
I don't bother forming opinions on ones I haven't. I have never even held a Radion. I don't think something simple should cost that much.
My old Vortechs are mules that just keep going. The new ones are more cheaply made. I probably wont buy another. I like Mobius and have both the 180 and 240 pump groups programmed in it. I can buy parts if I have an oops. New wetsides are not as nice and feel like they are of a cheaper plastic than the older ones.
The MP40 I purchased last year says assembled in Pennsylvania on it. I wonder where the circuit board was assembled and plastic was molded at? The power brick is a standard cheap Chinese made small one. To me "made in" applies to where it is manufactured. Not where corporate headquarters is or someone put a few screws and stuck a knob on.

Brand names mean nothing anymore. This applies to most everything, not just aquarium stuff.
My Ray-Ban eyeglass frames I just got say - guess what - on them? My Cuisinart coffeemaker.
Some products made in China are as good as you are going to get on earth. Some aren't. You pay your money and take your chances.
In an era where everything is bought online I like to see and touch and try out things so I can tell what I am getting as much as possible.
Now you buy a car on your phone and have it dropped on your driveway.

Can I interest you in a nice Italian light. $1400 for 140w. Sicce pumps, the plastic failed from applying pipe compound to the threads. I use Jebao ones now.
I am getting things that have nonstandard nuts and bolts that only work together but you cant go buy another nut ay HD if you lose one because they aren't exactly a standard size.

It's the world we live in now.

Do I think MH is better. Yes I do. Easier too. But I am not willing to spend time scrounging parts that suit me. I moved on.
LED is scary. You can spend a lot and still not get what you want. Then you spend more adding T5 or LED bars and hangers.
After reading and watching videos I came up with what I bought and am happy.
Now that is called research. To me research used to mean test tubes, microscopes, atom smashers and things like that.
It used to be called due diligence.
Due diligence is an investigation, audit, or review performed to confirm facts or details of a matter under consideration.
let the buyer beware
Getting some responses on a thread on the internet dont count for me. I read installation manuals, videos, reviews and look for use over time posts in forums. But our new search engines don't find much anymore. Buy it on Amazon now, get's there tomorrow.

 

[shred5]

I only post about things I have used.
I don't bother forming opinions on ones I haven't. I have never even held a Radion. I don't think something simple should cost that much.
My old Vortechs are mules that just keep going. The new ones are more cheaply made. I probably wont buy another. I like Mobius and have both the 180 and 240 pump groups programmed in it. I can buy parts if I have an oops. New wetsides are not as nice and feel like they are of a cheaper plastic than the older ones.
The MP40 I purchased last year says assembled in Pennsylvania on it. I wonder where the circuit board was assembled and plastic was molded at? The power brick is a standard cheap Chinese made small one. To me "made in" applies to where it is manufactured. Not where corporate headquarters is or someone put a few screws and stuck a knob on.

Brand names mean nothing anymore. This applies to most everything, not just aquarium stuff.
My Ray-Ban eyeglass frames I just got say - guess what - on them? My Cuisinart coffeemaker.
Some products made in China are as good as you are going to get on earth. Some aren't. You pay your money and take your chances.
In an era where everything is bought online I like to see and touch and try out things so I can tell what I am getting as much as possible.
Now you buy a car on your phone and have it dropped on your driveway.

Can I interest you in a nice Italian light. $1400 for 140w. Sicce pumps, the plastic failed from applying pipe compound to the threads. I use Jebao ones now.
I am getting things that have nonstandard nuts and bolts that only work together but you cant go buy another nut ay HD if you lose one because they aren't exactly a standard size.

It's the world we live in now.

I never used mobius for pumps only lighting. Pain for lighting but some like it.

I like Sicce pumps and have some that are really old and mostly good luck with them. They make a really good skimmer pumps too.
I know some have had issues with the DC pumps. I just picked one up that came with my new/used skimmer so we will see.

 

[wvned]

I never used mobius for pumps only lighting. Pain for lighting but some like it.

I like Sicce pumps and have some that are really old and mostly good luck with them. They make a really good skimmer pumps too.
I know some have had issues with the DC pumps. I just picked one up that came with my new/used skimmer so we will see.

I used all Sicce pumps. Every one attached to plumbing by me crumbled where I screwed the PVC pipe on. I have 2 running on recirculating reactors that are fine but I didn't seal the threads and don't care if they leak because they are in they sump. Yes the run a long time but can be a bit loud.
I tried to buy new volutes but could not find them anymore.

 

[five.five-six]

True and, as someone still running MH, bulbs and electronic ballasts are getting near to impossible to find.

Not really a problem for me. I’ve stockpiled 4 spare ballasts and 40 bulbs. By the time I run out LED will be as good as halide.

 

[T Diddy]

If you want lots of quality par for good value, perhaps look at the Reefi Uno or Duo.

ReeFi Lab – Smart Aquarium Solutions

I’ve done plenty of research on the available led lights (which is why I’m still building my own), but if I were going to actually buy one, the Reefi would be on my short list.

 

[Anemone]

I’ve done plenty of research on the available led lights (which is why I’m still building my own), but if I were going to actually buy one, the Reefi would be on my short list.

I ordered two of the ReeFi lights. They'll ship sometime later this month when the mounting arms arrive. I'll let you know what I think then.

Kevin

 

[T Diddy]

I doubt you’ll be disappointed. Which model did you go with?

 

[reefing102]

Agree I doubt you’ll be disappointed. I haven’t used them but have heard fantastic things about them.

 

[Anemone]

I doubt you’ll be disappointed. Which model did you go with?

Uno 2.0 Pro.

Kevin

 

[T Diddy]

Sweet!