What's A Good LED System?

[Anemone]

First, a different question? How long do LED fixtures last? MY AP700 just turned 6 years old, and I finally got a PAR meter and found the lighting was only hitting about 250 PAR at the surface (at 100%)!

So, back to the original question: I have a Red Sea Reefer 425XL - 48" x 24" x 22" (deep). What system would be good to get my PAR up into at least the 300s at the rockwork crest? Oh, and one that is reliable and durable?

Red Sea? Kessil? Something else?

Thanks!
Kevin

 

[OldReefGuy]

I bought this one on closeout....couldn't be happier for my 525XL.

Maxspect Razor X 300w LED Lighting Fixture (CLOSEOUT)

Effective Coverage: 64in x 22in | Maximum Coverage: 72in x 26inDimensions: 47.2in x 10.2in x 1.25in (LxWxH) | Suited for tanks: 47in - 59in

store.coralvue.com

 

[kharmaguru]

First, a different question? How long do LED fixtures last? MY AP700 just turned 6 years old, and I finally got a PAR meter and found the lighting was only hitting about 250 PAR at the surface (at 100%)!

So, back to the original question: I have a Red Sea Reefer 425XL - 48" x 24" x 22" (deep). What system would be good to get my PAR up into at least the 300s at the rockwork crest? Oh, and one that is reliable and durable?

Red Sea? Kessil? Something else?

Thanks!
Kevin

If you want lots of quality par for good value, perhaps look at the Reefi Uno or Duo.

ReeFi Lab – Smart Aquarium Solutions

 

[oreo57]

First, a different question? How long do LED fixtures last? MY AP700 just turned 6 years old, and I finally got a PAR meter and found the lighting was only hitting about 250 PAR at the surface (at 100%)!

So, back to the original question: I have a Red Sea Reefer 425XL - 48" x 24" x 22" (deep). What system would be good to get my PAR up into at least the 300s at the rockwork crest? Oh, and one that is reliable and durable?

Red Sea? Kessil? Something else?

Thanks!
Kevin

First some par readings on a err "new" AP700 2 100%
Soo kind of pick the spot you took your reading from. Also note if you are at the same height.
At the surface measurements with lenses like the AP can be a bit deceiving.

AP700 par readings on RSM C-250

I was curious about the PAR values in my RSM C-250 with the Kessil AP700. I used the Apogee SQ-520. I roughly gridded out the tank using painters tape and a ruler. Measurements: Depth below water at 1, 6, 12 and 18 (sandbed) inches. Width from back at 3, 6, 9, 12 and 15 inches. Length from...

www.reef2reef.com

To be honest.. nobody knows which brands last the longest for the most part.
5-10 yrs is a long time.
Kessils form factor (high power in a compact package) isn't the best for longevity BUT mere speculation.
AP700 should be the better one but it depends where they stuck the drivers and asst. circuitry.

One of the better "systems" including replaceable leds is the GHL Mitras line.
But you do pay for it.

 

[reefing102]

You’ve got some decent suggestions here. It seems the average for LED is said to last somewhere between I believe 25k-35k hours. That said, though I don’t know the research, I think like all bulbs, there is a spectral shift as time goes on which can affect par.

 

[wvned]

Both my viparspectras and My Photon V2 are still going 100% and I had them before we moved to this house 5 years ago.
2 viparspectras @ 165 watts each = 330 watts
Photon V2 48 = 240 watt
Now I use
4 Noopsyches @ 140 watts each = 560 watts.
I use 4 on a 6 foot tank and 6 on an 8 foot, both 24 inches deep.
I have them in LED CoralCovers so I am cheating a bit.
NP run 55% and the Coralcovers 33%. Nothing gets hot.
6 Noopyches in Coral covers replaced 1400 watts MH/T5 and the tank never noticed.
I looked and looked. I bought the Noopsyches
If you want a pretty app pass on them though. It is usable but really clunky.

AP700 = 185 watts

 

[oreo57]

Both my viparspectras and My Photon V2 are still going 100% and I had them before we moved to this house 5 years ago.
2 viparspectras @ 165 watts each = 330 watts
Photon V2 48 = 240 watt
Now I use
4 Noopsyches @ 140 watts each = 560 watts.
I use 4 on a 6 foot tank and 6 on an 8 foot, both 24 inches deep.
I have them in LED CoralCovers so I am cheating a bit.
NP run 55% and the Coralcovers 33%. Nothing gets hot.
6 Noopyches in Coral covers replaced 1400 watts MH/T5 and the tank never noticed.
I looked and looked. I bought the Noopsyches
If you want a pretty app pass on them though. It is usable but really clunky.

AP700 = 185 watts

Well your Viparspectras do not "do" 165 watts
Most estimates are 110w with both channels at 100% Each channel is roughly 55 watts. Minor difference between the 27 and 28 led channels.
Drivers are around 550mA and led voltage is around 3.6 so 3.6 x .550 x 28 = 55.44 watts.
Photons " honest".

No idea of the noopsyches.

Just an fyi...
Oh probably any light where the states watts divided by the number of LEDs comes out to 3 or more is probably lying since must "3 watt class" LEDs are rarely run at 3 watts.More like 2.
"5 watt class" probably more like 3-4ish though.

One of the reasons they can last a long time. Less heat.

 

[wvned]

Well your Viparspectras do not "do" 165 watts
Most estimates are 110w with both channels at 100% Each channel is roughly 55 watts. Minor difference between the 27 and 28 led channels.
Drivers are around 550mA and led voltage is around 3.6 so 3.6 x .550 x 28 = 55.44 watts.
Photons " honest".

No idea of the noopsyches.

Just an fyi...
Oh probably any light where the states watts divided by the number of LEDs comes out to 3 or more is probably lying since must "3 watt class" LEDs are rarely run at 3 watts.More like 2.
"5 watt class" probably more like 3-4ish though.

One of the reasons they can last a long time. Less heat.

I suppose I was trying to make a point comparing apples to apples.
I looked at the AP700 but never bought one. I was never comfortable pushing one to max coverage and when I considered buying 2 it priced it out of consideration.
I don't use my lights at 100%. or max coverage.
The 2 Viparspectras are on a 29 gallon tank now.
The Photon 48 is in the fish room on the 75 still. That light is made for a 75. Would be great on a deeper 90 with the same H and W.
I upgraded mine and it has a nice app now on my phone.
I get cheaper lights and use more at 40-70% power. No failed diodes or drivers so far.

I found this on the ReefFi page. a Nice comparison.

The lights I am using are $154 (no hanger/arm) for 140 watts and cover 24x24inches.
You can get more watts or wider coverage but I was comfortable these would do what I wanted
I hedged my bets and put them in LED CoralCovers. I could have used T5 hybids but NO MORE BULB CHANGES.
This made my cost about the same as buying Hydras but I have lots of light over my tank and they are running easy at 30-50%
Hydra 32s were my second choice but the cost of a T5 hybrid added to them made my choice for me.
So I used them on the 180 when I set it up and ran them next to the MH/T5 on the 240.
They worked well.
Now the 240 has the same setup after the strange day of ballast death that took out 1/2 the lights over the 240.

 

[griss]

@Anemone I know it's a bit of a distance from you but, someone is selling some Mars Aquas on the board.

for sale LED - Mars Aqua

Hi All, I have three LED fixtures that we no longer need. Two 300 watt and one 165 watt Led fixtures. $60 each for the large and $30 for the small. They all work great! Local only. Mark (650) 619-8447

forums.reefcentral.com

 

[shred5]

If you want lots of quality par for good value, perhaps look at the Reefi Uno or Duo.

ReeFi Lab – Smart Aquarium Solutions

Yea defiantly highest par for the money. Really well built. Interface needs a little help but has been improved significantly. The guy helps out really fast. I asked if a feature could be added to the interface and never thought he would and it was in there in a months time. You are lucky if a company even listens to a customer let alone implement a change. Normally it would take the whole community screaming to get a change so props to the owner of ReeFi.

They also send multiple angled reflectors and do not charge a arm and a leg for different reflectors.

You do have to be careful though because they are really really really high par. I think when I tried mine at the surface I was like 800 par full on.
Probably the top fixture for those that know what they are doing. They blow away the Ecotech Radions.


As for leds lasting that is a loaded question. So many things can affect leds and there are difference in quality of leds. Allot depends on how they are driven and cooled.

Personally I use allot of Kessil and highly recommend them especially to beginner's because they are so easy to use. Two dials. No spectrum to mess with and that is one thing that can have detrimental affects on tank if the user does not understand spectrum. They are expensive though and over priced in my opinion.
.

 

[five.five-six]

I’m so glad I run metal Halide. I don’t have to worry about any of this

 

[shred5]

I’m so glad I run metal Halide. I don’t have to worry about any of this

Still my favorite lighting and easy to use. It always felt like diving on the reef. LEDS have more of a cold feeling to them because of how blue they are.
My problem is most of my stuff are on racks and the fixtures are just to big.

 

[wvned]

I got over my fears

They are any color I want them to be. Why do you think LEDS are just blue.

 

[Anemone]

I’m so glad I run metal Halide. I don’t have to worry about any of this

Yeah, but halides are HOT, and use more electricity. Plus less bulb changes with LEDs (okay, no bulb changes with LEDs).

Kevin

 

[griss]

Yeah, but halides are HOT, and use more electricity. Plus less bulb changes with LEDs (okay, no bulb changes with LEDs).

Kevin

True and, as someone still running MH, bulbs and electronic ballasts are getting near to impossible to find.

 

[wvned]

My other problem was 1 out of 4 bulbs I got shipped were defective on my last relamp. Both Hamilton MH and ATI T5s

 

[shred5]

Yeah, but halides are HOT, and use more electricity. Plus less bulb changes with LEDs (okay, no bulb changes with LEDs).

Kevin

There not that hot. 250 watts of heat is 250 watts of heat no matter where it comes from.
Halides do produce some IR heat though.
Most led fixtures are nearing or higher wattage than Halides and the trend is moving up. The ReeFi fixture talked about above can do 270 watts. That means in theory it is putting out more heat than a halide at full. I know not everyone runs their lights at full either.

The only reason Halides seem so hot is how they disperse the heat. LEDs usually have a heat sink which directs the heat away and also spreads it out. If You touch my leds fixtures with exposed heat sinks for my seed starting indoor garden they are pretty darn hot.

I know I know there is some IR heat produced by halides.

The thing about leds is the way they are used in the hobby they loose their efficiency. LEDs are very good at lighting a horizontal surface and are very good at putting light where it needs to be and in allot of cases that is a positive and saves energy. They are a very directional light source. In the hobby it creates shading (you end up with a ton of light on top a coral but very little on the sides. . As manufacturers try to spread the light out and overcome the shading the fixtures loose efficiency. They are doing this by adding lenses to fixtures which cuts down the light. Some manufacturers are going away from pucks and spreading the leds out and adding more of them like with the Radions, some are doing both. There are tricks used. As manufacturers work to make lighting better the difference between metal halides and leds shrinks in terms of heat and efficiency.

 

[Anemone]

There not that hot. 250 watts of heat is 250 watts of heat no matter where it comes from.
Halides do produce some IR heat though.
Most led fixtures are nearing or higher wattage than Halides and the trend is moving up. The ReeFi fixture talked about above can do 270 watts. That means in theory it is putting out more heat than a halide at full. I know not everyone runs their lights at full either.

The only reason Halides seem so hot is how they disperse the heat. LEDs usually have a heat sink which directs the heat away and also spreads it out. If You touch my leds fixtures with exposed heat sinks for my seed starting indoor garden they are pretty darn hot.

I know I know there is some IR heat produced by halides.

The thing about leds is the way they are used in the hobby they loose their efficiency. LEDs are very good at light a horizontal surface and are very good at putting light where it needs to be and in allot of cases that is a positive and saves energy. They are a very directional light source. In the hobby it creates shading (you end up with a ton of light on top a coral but very little on the sides. . As manufacturers try to spread the light out and overcome the shading the fixtures loose efficiency. They are doing this by adding lenses to fixtures which cuts down the light. Some manufacturers are going away from pucks and spreading the leds out and adding more of them like with the Radions, some are doing both. There are tricks used. As manufacturers work to make lighting better the difference between metal halides and leds shrinks in terms of heat and efficiency.

I can see your point, however, my 285 watt LED fixture feels A LOT cooler than my old 300 watt (2 x 150 DE bulb) MH fixture. Maybe it is the better heat sinks; maybe it's IR heat. Either way, my old MH fixture radiated more heat, both into the air and into the tank.

Kevin

 

[kharmaguru]

In Leds vs halide or even T5, watts are not equal in terms of brightness or heat produced. If it makes less heat per watt, it by default produces more light per watt. A 1000w halide is regularly replaced by a 300w led in horticulture situations.

 

[wvned]

In Leds vs halide or even T5, watts are not equal in terms of brightness or heat produced. If it makes less heat per watt, it by default produces more light per watt. A 1000w halide is regularly replaced by a 300w led in horticulture situations.

That is about how it worked out for me. 1400 watts to 900w of but only running 30 and 50%..
The difference was visible on the power bill.
Between the lower power bill and not replacing bulbs my change to LEDs has paid for itself after 2 years. 8 54w T5 bulbs and 4 250w MH bulbs got pricey.