When to add SPS

[balloonpilot]

I've got a 'new' tank... While I set it up in March of 09, the chemistry hasnt been stable until about two months ago (hey Im new)...

I am able to keep softies ok. But whenever I put any SPS (Acros) in my tank, they only last about 2 weeks before losing all thier tissue... Sometimes start from bottom, some starts from top.

A LFS told me that its not recommended to add SPS to any tank that does not have coraline alge (pink stuff) on the walls/pumps - as this is the sign that the tank is mature enough.

Any truth to this?

Thanks

 

[yerboy]

I had trouble keeping SPS in my tank until i removed all my kenya trees did a few water changes and ran carbon for about 2 months. Now i have had some sps in my tank for 2-3 months and there growing fine.
so depending on what type of softies you have that may be your problem.
you also didn't list your water parameters or lighting so it could be hard to tell what your problem is without that information.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

I too would like to know what your parameters are. Alk, calc and mag???

 

[balloonpilot]

Tank is a 28g nano w/ 150w MH (20K).

Water params:
Sg - 1.025-1.026
Alk - 9.3 - 9.9
Ca - 450
Mg 1450
Temp 78
pH = 8.15 to 8.25

Softies:
Recordia (which has split)
Zooanthid
both slightly larger than silver dollar so not very big

Also have Hammer Coral frag and Green Trumpet coral, and a montipora (which was green and is now white but still has polyps)

Thanks

 

[sedorusc]

what about nitrates, trites, ammonia?

 

[mile sq. reefer]

^^ and also I would uise a Pheonix 14k or and AB 10k for lighting instead of a 20K. These are the highest PAR 150w HQI lamps I have used. Well its been a while since I've been on the forums, maybe Sanjay did some more lighting reviews for us 150w HQI users.

 

[balloonpilot]

Amonia and Nitrites are zero. Nitrates 'were' at 15, did at 10g (almost 1/2 tank) change and down to 5.

I've heard conflicting stories that small amounts of Nitrates are required for growth, but then I've had others tell me that 15 will kill things.

As for lighting - I understand that a 14K or 10K would speed up growth but I like the 20K 'tint' given... If I had a real tank and could use higher power atenics along with my MH but the atenics in mine are 18w at best. Are you saying that I should try the 18w atenics (blue) and use 10K MH?

My situation is not sloww growth - its life or death (mostly death), so would this mean that 20K bulbs are actully killing SPS s?

What about the pink alge - Should a tank have this on the back before adding SPSs ?

Thanks

 

[GPhiAce]

The way that you describe the tissue recession and you water parameters, it seems like your death is due to either STN or RTN. What flow do you have, and do you know if your parameters are stable, ie change throughout the day, change between days? Keeping SPS can be difficult in the beginning and even the most experienced reefers have issues. What sps are you trying to keep??? Montis, digis, millis and birds nests? I would suggest that you start out with these and move up to the scros and stags. This way you know your boundaries and it is a little cheaper. Plus, they are hardier. How are you maintaining your alk, Ca and Mg? Your parameters are not bad at all, and Trates os 15 will not 100% kill corals. My trates have been at 80 for a while- only saw slightly brown corals with less PE. Now mine are at 20 and I am still working on getting them down- I overfeed my fish.
Interested in the amount of flow you have. I ad a 29g and had return at 400gph, a sureflow 1600 modded MJ and a K3 for flow. Now I have a 40br with a MP40w on full blast and return at 500gph.

 

[C3gear]

SPS Addition

SPS Addition

I think that the water Parms is the most important in the addition of SPS, Although Coraline does display some tank maturity.

I started my 20g Nano on June 28, 2009 and I added most of my SPS before I saw the first hint of Coraline on my glass or rock wall.


Right now I have about 22-23 SPS
Millies, Acros, Montis and Quite a few ORA Frags.

Currently Running 150w HQI Phoenix 14K Pendant and dosing B-Ionic 2 Part and Magnesium.

Here are a few pics from about a month ago

 

[balloonpilot]

My chemistry...

Using Seachem Reef Salt, mixed to 1.025

Dosing with Profilux Dosing Pumps:
Brightwell Kalk +
Seachem Reef Builder
Seachem Advantage Calcium

Manually dosing:
Seachem Advantage Mag and Strontium
Kent Tech-I
Brightwell Trace
" Coral Amino
" Potassium

As for flow:
I've replaced the stock pumps with MaxiJet 1200's.

I did have a Koralia-1 shooting across the rear and 4 Koralia Nanos. I've since replaced the 4 Nanos with one Vortech MP10 (kept the Koralia 1).

SPS:
Monipora Spumosa or Spongodes (Green/Brown) - Still has pollyps but turned white with few spots of green.


Acropora Tortuosa (Cali Tort) - THis is the one thats started to lose tissue from the bottom up, but this seems to have stopped. Polyps were extended for about the first 3-4 days then would pulse (in/out), now now longer.

Acropora Tenuis (4 branches) - This one sometimes has polyps, but I can see verticle lines in the tissue... Which based on other Acros Ive kept means its days away from tissue lose.

Seriatopora Hystrix (Birdsnest) - When purchased from store was brown with pink glow and nice white tips. Now the top side of all branches is white, bottom is brown. However, there is lots of polyp extension (even on the top/white)

DId another 10gal water change and Trates are at 5 (using Salfert kit)

 

[boodlefish]

how high is your light from the surface of your water? and where are you initially placing your sps? Light acclimation is a huge deal. i bleached all my corals when i first switched from pc to mh. i had the mh with in 4 inch of water?!? when i raised it to 10 inches all my remaining coral and anemone thrived, and i could now keep sps frags.

I am not saying you cant have your light close to the water some do, just make sure to conservatively acclimate new additions to your lighting conditions.

oh and where so you get your frags? LFS or local reefer? you will have more luck with corals that are already accustomed to home aquariums, I did. I couldn't really keep any coral from any of my many LFS's alive for a long time. got a couple of hardy frags (green slimmer) form a local reefer and i was finally growing sps! now i only buy acculturated corals, it helps a lot. try some harder ORA stuff they grow great for me.

LIGHT ACCLIMATION + AQUACULTURED FRAGS will yield much more success. IMO

good luck

 

[boodlefish]

i now only get STN/RTN with extreme temp swings on my most sensitive additions what is your hottest and coldest temps through out the day???

 

[balloonpilot]

Lighting:
The tank is a JBJB Nano 28, so its got a closed lid which places the alights at most 2" above water surface. Lights are LED for 'moon light', 2 x 18w attenic for dawn/dusk, and 150W MH Geissman 20K operated 10hrs a day.

When corals (SPS) are first placed into the tank, they are placed on the bottom/sand for about a week then moved up. I was told that even in this small tank, the lighting is still not great so moving them up/closer wont hurt things as they came out of a tank from the LFS with higher rated bulbs (more light) so I didnt have to worry about my tank being 'too strong'.... maybe this was bad information ?

Temp:
Target temp is 78. Will swing 77.5 to 78.8 over a 24 hr period. Is this too much of a swing? I've got a chiller because with a closed hood system running MH it tends to get hot.

As for source of SPS:
LFS sells fish (salt/fresh) as well as corals. Has some impressive tanks with corals and seems to know what he's talking about. But he admits that 'some' of his frags come from other customers - he puts them in the back where he's got a large tank (looks more like a feeding throuth and has MH lights about 2ft above.

 

[boodlefish]

how is your chiller controlled and when did you last calibrate your thermometer? if thermometer has good calibration and chiller is accurately controlled i would rule out temp as an issue.

what about stray voltage? that can also cause rtn/stn and can effect some stuff and not others.

it sounds like you found a good LFS i finally found a decent one but still recommend getting frags from fellow reefers.

 

[balloonpilot]

Chiller is controlled (as well as thermoter) via Profilux Controller.
Thermometer is check against another digital probe and I've got a stick-on the glass tape as well.

What should be the normal temp swing, I know, as tight as possible but what should one strive for?

How can I test for stray voltage? Only sources in the tank could be the three MaxiJet 1200's used for returns and running water thru chiller/phosban reactor/and into refugium

 

[balloonpilot]

Can I go back and edit my last post

Of course I know how to.... test voltage.

So I got home and grabbed my cheapo digital meter and could not believe the reading I got. So I took my other two meters... Same thing!

Sticking one probe into tank and one to good ground and I was getting 40.0 volts! Yikes... Thats not mili or micro volts either thats 40 volts... But I would figure that should be felt by the human hand when touching the water in the tank - So I grounded myself and stuck my hand in the tank --- Nothing, couldnt feel a thing

But still I was reading 40 volts (yes Forty Volts) - Picked up a Grounding Probe and now down to 0.012

Now my concern is I've got 4 pumps, heater, and various probes for my Profilux Controller --- Which one is causing this high of voltage? Should I investigate it or just leave it now that I've got the probe?

Thanks boodlefish - I hope this was the issue with my tank and SPS...

 

[sedorusc]

unplug everything one by one if you can. basic process of elimination. good luck

 

[poidog81]

have you tried an easier SPS to keep, like a monti cap/digita yet? I have the same kind of system you have, but the 24g nano, and mine is stocked full of high end SPS. You need more flow then just the return pumps.

 

[kes_reef]

To answer the easiest question first - while it's always a plus to add corals to a mature tank with coralline algae, it's not necessary for their survival. Many reefers have added sps w/o any hint of pink/purple coralline algae and their corals are thriving.

Perhaps you're not doing anything wrong. Maybe it's just the inability of the sps frags (likely the wild ones) to acclimate to your tank. As mentioned above, it's good to look for frags that have been propagated in captivity. I would continue using 20k 150w, that's not your problem. Could be number of other issues - acclimation procedure, coral aggression from your lps, supplements, etc.

 

[balloonpilot]

Update - I've installed a Grounding Probe to eliminate the stray voltage in the tank.

2 days later - The Acro that had started to lose tissue from the bottom up has started to open its poylyps again!