Which check valve

[canesfan44]

I need to know what kind of check valve to use, the George Fisher wye check valve or the swing valve type. I will be using unions for either one for easier maintenence, but I have zero experience with check valves. I'm about to start the plumbing on my new tank, and a check valve is necessary. Yes, I know, I know, check valves fail a lot, but I have to use one. I was thinking that the George Fisher/wye type would be better because it is easier to clean and if I keep it clean it seems like it would work well, but I would like to know what people with actual experience with both suggest. It might help if I give you some details on the tank (maybe the size of the tank and water flow has an effect on which type is better?). It is a custom 20" cube with a custom overflow with the return line built into the bottom of the overflow, that spreads the flow instead of it returning in a stream-like manner (it's pretty cool). The return pump will be an Eheim1260, it will be split off to a reactor filled with biopellets.

 

[kcress]

You're probably not going to get a definitive answer because the absurdity of using a CV is so great, just about no one uses them.

 

[albano]

I need to know what kind of check valve to use...Yes, I know, I know, check valves fail a lot, but I have to use one.

I used two of these on my (return) system 6 years ago. Yes, I know, I know, check valves fail a lot, but I had to use them...in those 6 years, I don't think that they worked correctly, even once! The cheaper 'flapper' valves, I got at Home Depot, worked fine, and are still useable 6 years later. (although, I no longer use them)

 

[BeanAnimal]

Point blank, if a check valve is a necessity to keep aquarium water off of the floor, then the system is designed wrong.

A check valve in a marine aquarium system has almost a 100% probability of failure, even if well maintained. Redesign the system.

 

[billdogg]

^^^WHAT BEAN SAID^^^

If your sump cannot contain ALL the water it should if (when) the power goes out, you will, eventually, have a flood. It will most likely be the day after you leave for vacation.

 

[uncleof6]

Well I think that about covers check valves this time around. BIGGER SUMP,(more extra space) RETURNS CLOSER TO DT WATER SURFACE and oh did I mention DO NOT USE CHECK VALVES? OH and don't count on siphon break holes either.

Jim

 

[Sharpie_]

HEY! I run a check valve in addition to the added room in my sump, it allows all the water that may drain from the +20' of plumbing to stay in the lines and decrease the restart time of my system. Not only that, but my skimmer's cup floods out if the sump fills up, what a pain it is, and if I install a drain hose to my cup then I just start pushing out good water... I need a new skimmer.

 

[uncleof6]

One: when the power goes out, and everything drains into your sump, how the heck does your skimmer overflow?!? Two: if you shut the return pump off-- turn off the skimmer first!

Three: 20' or 100', if you have to use a check valve, the system is not designed properly. I learned the hard way, hope you don't. Not certain you need a new skimmer, if the water level is too high (when running) every skimmer will overflow! But you do need to work on your system design.

Jim

 

[canesfan44]

Thank you albano for the info on your experience with the two types. Did the flapper style (swing type) ever not work for you?

 

[BeanAnimal]

HEY! I run a check valve in addition to the added room in my sump, it allows all the water that may drain from the +20' of plumbing to stay in the lines and decrease the restart time of my system. Not only that, but my skimmer's cup floods out if the sump fills up, what a pain it is, and if I install a drain hose to my cup then I just start pushing out good water... I need a new skimmer.

That is a perfectly reasonable use for a check valve in an aquarium. It is not tasked with keeping water off of the floor.

 

[BeanAnimal]

One: when the power goes out, and everything drains into your sump, how the heck does your skimmer overflow?!? Two: if you shut the return pump off-- turn off the skimmer first!

It likely happens on startup after a power outage. The skimmer overflows before the sump reaches normal operating level.

It could also happen if he turns off the return pump for feeding.

In case 1) a delayed start could be setup with a relay.
In case 2) putting the skimmer on the same switch as the return pump and also using the delayed start relay would work

 

[BeanAnimal]

Thank you albano for the info on your experience with the two types. Did the flapper style (swing type) ever not work for you?

Not to belabor the point, but neither style works well enough to prevent flooding of your floor during a power outage... redesign the system so that you don't have to rely on a check valve

 

[Ocean's Edge]

+1 to BeanAnimal.... check valves only work when you don't need them to, the 1 time you NEED it to work -- is when it fails....

 

[stugray]

Uncle,

"how the heck does your skimmer overflow?!?"

I have a similar problem. I have an external reeflo 200 skimmer that dumps into the sump.

When the water level in the sump gets higher than normal, the skimmer begins to overflow ONTO THE FLOOR!.

I believe it is because of the design of the hartford loop.
To get mine to skim consistently, you have to nearly close the hartford loop valve all the way to get the water level high enough in the neck.

I think when the water level rises in the sump, it increases the back pressure in the loop driving the level higher in the skimmer.
I believe this only happens because of the large volume of air bubbles in the water that now have to exert more pressure to blow out the bottom of the loop into the sump.

My solution is a sump high water float switch.

If my controller detects the high water, it turns off the skimmer.
Problem solved.

Stu

 

[albano]

WARNING...CHECK VALVES MAY FAIL...

You're probably not going to get a definitive answer because the absurdity of using a CV is so great, just about no one uses them.

Point blank, if a check valve is a necessity to keep aquarium water off of the floor, then the system is designed wrong.

^^^WHAT BEAN SAID^^^

did I mention DO NOT USE CHECK VALVES? ... if you have to use a check valve, the system is not designed properly.

+1 to BeanAnimal.... check valves only work when you don't need them to, the 1 time you NEED it to work -- is when it fails....

WOW, I've heard of the TANG POLICE...but now the CHECK VALVE VIGILANTES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hope you saw that both the OP and myself mentioned that we were aware of the problems.

Yes, I know, I know, check valves fail a lot, but I have to use one.

I used two of these on my (return) system 6 years ago. Yes, I know, I know, check valves fail a lot, but I had to use them...

Just for the record, my 150g sump has enough room for any and all backflow, my pump AND skimmer are controlled by SIX high and low level flow switches (2 installed in each tank and sump), both tanks (130g and 170g) had 1 1/2" drains with an extra 1 1/2" 'emergency' drains, and the sump has a 1 1/2" 'major catastrophe' overflow plumbed directly into my basement floor drain.
All of this, and I still liked the idea of a 'redundant'/safety measure of check valves...so SUE ME! :spin2:
I'm not so sure that I need to redesign my system!

That is a perfectly reasonable use for a check valve in an aquarium. It is not tasked with keeping water off of the floor.

You talking to me?

Thank you albano for the info on your experience with the two types. Did the flapper style (swing type) ever not work for you?

I feel that I must warn you, that 'some' people feel that there may be problems with check valves....that being said, the flappers, although, no longer in use, did not have a problem (DISCLAIMER: check valves may fail)






PLEASE NOTE...I enjoyed writing this, and am only having fun, and do sincerely value everyone's opinions and input...PLEASE, for the love of GOD, JUST SAY NO, to check valves!
LOVE,
Alfie

 

[BeanAnimal]

I think I can safely speak for the others when I say, none of us care if you (or the op) use a check valve or not or if your floors flood. Don't take that as mean, we would love to see sound advice followed, but we are not going to "sue you" for ignoring sound advice and common plumbing sense. What most of us care about is making sure that good and factual information is passed along so that others don't end up with a wet floor becuase they followed the wrong advice.

Also you may want to note that the "Tang Police" could also care less what somebody does to their floor. They get upset when they see living creatures mistreated

Your [Albano's] setup does not require a check valve to keep the floor dry, therefore it does not need redesigned. The point was very clearly made that if your [a, any] setup requires the use of a check valve to prevent flooding, then it is a candidate for redesign. If your [Albano] system does not fit that criteria then the advice can be ignored as it was not directed at your setup.

 

[Pickupman66]

Ill agree with Bean here on this. I have 20+ feet of 2" pipe leading to my tank returns. with that much water, I use a check valve to lessen air in the lines on a pump restart. I have a 180 with a 150 sump. the sump has less than 75 gallons in it under normal conditions, so even if I do have a valve failure, there wont be water on the garage floor as total drawdown for the tank is less than 40 gallons.

 

[GACDIVER]

Check valves are but another level of renduancy. Yes the sump should handle the volume. Yes the return should be near the surface. Yes your siphion break holes should be kept clean. Failure to maintain any peice of equipment will cause issues.

Flapper valves are cheap and fail quickly, Y-s will reduce flow and can fail over time. No one has mentioned the use of Spears True Union Sch 80 Ball style check valves??? I have used them for years with minimal failure rates (usualy due to carbonate build up or debris on the ball). They are heavy duty and can be disasembled to clean and replace parts. They are expensive but worth the cost.

Rocket Surgen:

Check valves are a nightmare waiting to happen,

A large glass box with rock in it, multiple penitrations, plumbing fittings, all while in close proximity to large amounts of electrical is a nightmare waiting to happen...the only thing you can do is plan to minimize risk and remember murphys law...