Who's had Ich with no treatment and tank survived?
- Thread starter guyguerra
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Moodywaters
New member
My purple Tang after having extream trauma of having to live in a rubber maid for 48 hours with random rocks from my previous tank with temps probably droping below 75 down to 73. After getting him out and placing him in a nano cube to have a bit of a safer home i noticed the little white spots of ich and thought he was for sure going to be a goner. 3 weeks later now just been doing water changes and he has no sign of ich they just slowly faded away... kinda odd for me since my friend had ich and we tried everything to save his yellow tang who are usually i thought more hardie than purples but oh well
reverendmaynard
New member
Perhaps the "trying everything to save" actually made things worse?
Or, it was weakened by some other condition which caused it to be more susceptible (sic?) to the ick?
Or, it was weakened by some other condition which caused it to be more susceptible (sic?) to the ick?
guyguerra
Premium Member
Well, the proof will be in this pudding! I had a problem in my 50 gallon tank. It's a long story, but the tank overheated. My wife found the fish laying on the bottom of the tank and called me at work saying that all the fish died! I ran home, and saw that two of the three were breathing, more like gasping for air. I pulled them out put them in the fuge of my big tank. I found the third fish under a rock, so I put him in the fuge too. After an hour they revived and were swimming around. The fish are a brown tang, mystery wrasse and clown wrasse. I was going to to put the tang in the 230 when she got a little bigger, so I decided since she was now living in the fuge they might as well stay in the big tank, so today I put all three in the big tank. If Ich was going to be an ongoing problem, this should be when it is going to happen. I'll let you know next week. I think they'll be fine though. We'll see.
My powder blue tang gets a lot of ich on and off and all my other tangs, seven total get a speck or two occasionally. I have three cleaner neon gobies. Some of the tangs I have had over seven years. I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t ever treat for it and never lost a fish because of it. I just feed a lot and have a large stable tank. There are two triggers and a coral beauty including smaller fish, twenty-four total.
BTTRFLYGRL
New member
Honestly...I think the people who are seeing the 'occasional' spots are not dealing with ich at all...I put some corals in my tank and after that, I had a couple of fish that had tiny white specks. They now only seem to affect my Raccoon every once in awhile. He behaves normal but does seem a little irritated at times. I think it may be Trichodenosis [that my not be the right spelling
] I will post some info on it later, comes from Nogas disease book. This cond. often clears up on its own..The spots are much smaller than ich and really look like debris more than anything.
I am moving all these fish into my new 240, but before I do, I am placing them in a temporary qt so I can do 3 Formalin dips on them..I do not want any creepy critters in my new tank!
] I will post some info on it later, comes from Nogas disease book. This cond. often clears up on its own..The spots are much smaller than ich and really look like debris more than anything.I am moving all these fish into my new 240, but before I do, I am placing them in a temporary qt so I can do 3 Formalin dips on them..I do not want any creepy critters in my new tank!
scarter
New member
My hippo has ich now. I have not introduced any fish to the tank for over a year. but i did recently buy a new 200g and cycled it. I acclimated all of my fish to the new tank. But my hippo has a hideing place in the rocks that is impossible to get to. so, long story short she was never aclimated to the big tank, just picked up the whole rock with her in it, and placed it in the new tank. well, I woke up yesterday and she has ich all over her. I guess about 50 spots. This fish has had ick a couple times in the past and I have never treated it. it just clears up on its own. But I have never seen it this bad. I usually never get nervous about the ich with the hippo but this time there are so many spots, it has me shakeing in my boots. The stress of changeing tanks is what caused it. so I am not going to rip the newly placed corals and rock apart to try to get her into the QT tank. the tank is stressed enough as it is. I am going to wait out the first cycle of ich and go from there. I have never treated ich before and dont want to start now.
and yes, I believe that ich just lives in the tank. I have added nothing to the tank except IO in the last year.
and yes, I believe that ich just lives in the tank. I have added nothing to the tank except IO in the last year.
Recife
New member
Advocates of no treatment,
Do you use garlic at least? I have 2 fish infected that are acting well and my cleaner shrimp is picking on them all day. I don't have a quarantine tank and don't know if I will even be able to fish my hippo out.
I'm tempted to wait another couple of days to see what happens and in the meantime soak the food in garlic.
Do you use garlic at least? I have 2 fish infected that are acting well and my cleaner shrimp is picking on them all day. I don't have a quarantine tank and don't know if I will even be able to fish my hippo out.
I'm tempted to wait another couple of days to see what happens and in the meantime soak the food in garlic.
scarter
New member
no garlic yet. Like I said I will wait out the first cycle and see if she can resist the second bout. I do not use garlic or anything that I feel is not 'natural'. I know that is a realitive term but I am sticking to my guns on this one. I also dont use carbon for the same reason. just my theory on things. everyone has one in this hobby....
SCarter
SCarter
BTTRFLYGRL
New member
A couple of questions, if I may
Is everyone 100% sure they are dealing with ich? People who say they have had ich that comes and goes for years....it could be something else.
Why leave the fish to fight it off, knowing the stress it causes and knowing the fish may die?
Why deal with what you believe to be ich in your tank when it is so easily eradicated by removing the fish to treat in a qt and letting the tank go fallow?
I realize many do not want to tear down their reefs to remove their fish, so wouldn't it be easier to qt and treat BEFORE placing fish in main?
It is a lot of work to remove and treat fish. Doing water changes constantly.But in the end, when your fish are healthy and ich free ,[yes it is possible] isn't it worth it to be able to look at your tank and see beautiful fish who are healthy and not scratching and covered with spots?? [that is not a pretty site]
I have a small reef, but I started this hobby because of the beautiful fish..I was taken by their beauty, their colors and personality..I cannot in good conscience let a fish suffer because I don't want to take the time to remove them..In the wild, ich doesn't kill , in our vast oceans, fish cannot be repeatedly infested.....but once we place the fish in our Aquarius, it can quickly overcome our fish..Isn't it our responsibility to care for these fish and help them when they are ill? Would you let your dog or cat to fight off a tick infestation? Say the dog or cat had thousands of ticks, would you help it or let it die? Some say, 'their just fish'....but my fish are my pets and my responsibility.. I care for them as I care for my dog and cats..Fish are not disposable and they do require work..I believe they are worth it
I am in no way criticizing anyone...I believe everyone who replied here wants their fish to be healthy...but they also do not want to disrupt the corals that the fish live with..I hope one day a reef safe cure that truly works is invented..would save a lot of fish
Good luck to all of you!:rollface:
Is everyone 100% sure they are dealing with ich? People who say they have had ich that comes and goes for years....it could be something else.
Why leave the fish to fight it off, knowing the stress it causes and knowing the fish may die?
Why deal with what you believe to be ich in your tank when it is so easily eradicated by removing the fish to treat in a qt and letting the tank go fallow?
I realize many do not want to tear down their reefs to remove their fish, so wouldn't it be easier to qt and treat BEFORE placing fish in main?
It is a lot of work to remove and treat fish. Doing water changes constantly.But in the end, when your fish are healthy and ich free ,[yes it is possible] isn't it worth it to be able to look at your tank and see beautiful fish who are healthy and not scratching and covered with spots?? [that is not a pretty site]
I have a small reef, but I started this hobby because of the beautiful fish..I was taken by their beauty, their colors and personality..I cannot in good conscience let a fish suffer because I don't want to take the time to remove them..In the wild, ich doesn't kill , in our vast oceans, fish cannot be repeatedly infested.....but once we place the fish in our Aquarius, it can quickly overcome our fish..Isn't it our responsibility to care for these fish and help them when they are ill? Would you let your dog or cat to fight off a tick infestation? Say the dog or cat had thousands of ticks, would you help it or let it die? Some say, 'their just fish'....but my fish are my pets and my responsibility.. I care for them as I care for my dog and cats..Fish are not disposable and they do require work..I believe they are worth it
I am in no way criticizing anyone...I believe everyone who replied here wants their fish to be healthy...but they also do not want to disrupt the corals that the fish live with..I hope one day a reef safe cure that truly works is invented..would save a lot of fish
Good luck to all of you!:rollface:
I just ran a poll asking people what fish they'd had most trouble with, and came up with the following: out of some 24-25 respondents (not enough to be a really fair sample) 75+ percent said tangs were the worst. There were a couple of votes for clowns (who get the worst treatment, being oftenest bought by newbies) and one each for angels, butterflies, and rabbits. No one had trouble with blennies or gobies.
IMHO, the real story might be: if you have tangs, qt and do things by the book: if ich can be had, they'll find it. If you keep mostly blennies and gobies (and, I'd add, dragonettes), you're much safer. I'd add that in my own experience, rabbitfish are as bad as tangs about getting ich and tend to stress just as much. I didn't have any vote for damsels, but I think that's luck of the draw, and nobody seems to care about them much. Angels: next time I run that poll I should ask about pygmy vs major angels.
In my own opinion, if you have ich-prone species, qt is a good idea. I keep non-ich-prone fish and in my one outbreak, there was no one else likely to catch it.
Someone in the poll suggested that high-current area fishes are more prone to it, because their normal environment doesn't contain it (ich trophonts don't do high current) and they don't have the thick slime coating of ich-resistent species.
I find it a fascinating question. I also wonder if tangs, the largest fish aquarists normally keep, aren't just incredibly space-needy, beyond what most aquaria can afford them, and if stress doesn't play a part in it, ditto with rabbits, who get as big as some tangs.
I do think if I do get ich, I have an advantage in my fish-list: the slime-coat on my fish would have to be compromised by really crappy water for them to start manifesting it. Maybe what garlic does is provoke the slime coat to thicken---you know, like when you eat a really garlicky pizza and your eyes water? I wonder if horseradish would have a similarly beneficial effect.
I think I'll "let Mikey try" that one.
IMHO, the real story might be: if you have tangs, qt and do things by the book: if ich can be had, they'll find it. If you keep mostly blennies and gobies (and, I'd add, dragonettes), you're much safer. I'd add that in my own experience, rabbitfish are as bad as tangs about getting ich and tend to stress just as much. I didn't have any vote for damsels, but I think that's luck of the draw, and nobody seems to care about them much. Angels: next time I run that poll I should ask about pygmy vs major angels.
In my own opinion, if you have ich-prone species, qt is a good idea. I keep non-ich-prone fish and in my one outbreak, there was no one else likely to catch it.
Someone in the poll suggested that high-current area fishes are more prone to it, because their normal environment doesn't contain it (ich trophonts don't do high current) and they don't have the thick slime coating of ich-resistent species.
I find it a fascinating question. I also wonder if tangs, the largest fish aquarists normally keep, aren't just incredibly space-needy, beyond what most aquaria can afford them, and if stress doesn't play a part in it, ditto with rabbits, who get as big as some tangs.
I do think if I do get ich, I have an advantage in my fish-list: the slime-coat on my fish would have to be compromised by really crappy water for them to start manifesting it. Maybe what garlic does is provoke the slime coat to thicken---you know, like when you eat a really garlicky pizza and your eyes water? I wonder if horseradish would have a similarly beneficial effect.
I think I'll "let Mikey try" that one.
I've had fish with Ich and with other fungus deiases placed in my tanks. In all cases, the fish recoverd nicely, no QT, no meds, no special foods, no other fish were affected. My theory on why, and I've had discussions with a bio marine major who runs the marine lab at a major universety, is stress and reducing stress.
If a fish is stresssed out in it's enviroment, it tends to lesson it's immune system. If they are happy, well fed and not stressed, their immune system can overcome most problems.
The only thing other than this theory that I can say may have an impact, is the fact that I use NSW in my tanks, the same stuff the marine bio major uses in the systems he maintains at the university for research. Maybe these something in the water that's not in the ASW that most hobbiest use.
He told my club during a tour we had, that in the 6 + years he had been running the facility, he has never had an outbreak of Ich. They constantly collect specimens from the wild to observe. No QT or special stuff since they want to release them back into the wild.
These are jus my observations after having reef tanks for the last 7 years.
If a fish is stresssed out in it's enviroment, it tends to lesson it's immune system. If they are happy, well fed and not stressed, their immune system can overcome most problems.
The only thing other than this theory that I can say may have an impact, is the fact that I use NSW in my tanks, the same stuff the marine bio major uses in the systems he maintains at the university for research. Maybe these something in the water that's not in the ASW that most hobbiest use.
He told my club during a tour we had, that in the 6 + years he had been running the facility, he has never had an outbreak of Ich. They constantly collect specimens from the wild to observe. No QT or special stuff since they want to release them back into the wild.
These are jus my observations after having reef tanks for the last 7 years.
Paul B
Premium Member
Bttrflygrl, you are correct that we should not let our fish suffer. If the fish have a few spots and they disappear the fish are not suffering. Of course quarintining is probably best, I say probably because it is possable to have fish that just do not get ich.
Having said that, many people feel tangs are the most likely to get ich. that may be true, ( I feel porcupine fish are worse) but the reason tangs get ich is because tangs are always stressed.
The reason they are stressed is because tangs are schooling fish, they school for protection and are eaten as soon as they leave the school. They get eaten because they act differently when alone and the other fish can sense that. Also, fish know the depth of water they are in and adult tangs don't swim in water a couple of feet deep. They are more used to water a few fathoms deep.
I say this to show that no matter what you do with a tang, they will be stressed. That is the reason they are more prone to ich, and all sorts of other things. Most other fish do not school and may feel more comfortable in a tank. Bottom dwellers like mandarins, gobies, bleenies etc are at home alone even in shallow water. Moorish Idols are another tough fish to keep, they are also always stressed because they live in mated pairs and like to swim long distances with their mate.
I have been diving forty years and followed a lot of fish in just about all the oceans. The fish in our tanks never look as healthy as the ones in the sea, after all they are prisoners. :eek1:
Have a great ich free day.
Paul
Having said that, many people feel tangs are the most likely to get ich. that may be true, ( I feel porcupine fish are worse) but the reason tangs get ich is because tangs are always stressed.
The reason they are stressed is because tangs are schooling fish, they school for protection and are eaten as soon as they leave the school. They get eaten because they act differently when alone and the other fish can sense that. Also, fish know the depth of water they are in and adult tangs don't swim in water a couple of feet deep. They are more used to water a few fathoms deep.
I say this to show that no matter what you do with a tang, they will be stressed. That is the reason they are more prone to ich, and all sorts of other things. Most other fish do not school and may feel more comfortable in a tank. Bottom dwellers like mandarins, gobies, bleenies etc are at home alone even in shallow water. Moorish Idols are another tough fish to keep, they are also always stressed because they live in mated pairs and like to swim long distances with their mate.
I have been diving forty years and followed a lot of fish in just about all the oceans. The fish in our tanks never look as healthy as the ones in the sea, after all they are prisoners. :eek1:
Have a great ich free day.
Paul
scarter
New member
Some of us do not use q-tanks after a display fish is sick. It is not that we dont care about the fish. We care very much for our pets. for example, my hippo was stressed from a tank move that happened last week, this is the cause for her displaying signs of ich. if a tank move caused enough stress to trigger an outbreak, my fear is that another move to a q-tank would cause even more stress and possibly cause the subsequent death of the fish. How many fish "Die of ick" in q-tanks. I wonder what the ratio is compared to untreated display fish. I dont think that ick is a killer. I think it is the last straw for an immuno depressed fish. JMPO
just know that I leave hundreds of dollars worth of fish in the display because I think that that is what is best for them, not because I do not care about my fish or my investment in them.
With the numerous bouts of ich my Hippo has faced She allways takes care of it on her own. I wonder if she would still be alive today if I had transfered her to a q-tank all 7 times that she has shown signs of ich. tank changes are one of the most stressful events that a fish can go through. so why stress out an already sick fish.
that being said, I would rip the tank apart and remove every fish that was sick if I felt that the end was near for them. I would not simple sit by and watch my animals die. I will always follow the course of action that i believe suits them best.
just know that I leave hundreds of dollars worth of fish in the display because I think that that is what is best for them, not because I do not care about my fish or my investment in them.
With the numerous bouts of ich my Hippo has faced She allways takes care of it on her own. I wonder if she would still be alive today if I had transfered her to a q-tank all 7 times that she has shown signs of ich. tank changes are one of the most stressful events that a fish can go through. so why stress out an already sick fish.
that being said, I would rip the tank apart and remove every fish that was sick if I felt that the end was near for them. I would not simple sit by and watch my animals die. I will always follow the course of action that i believe suits them best.
reverendmaynard
New member
I agree. With sick fish the cure is almost always worse than the illness, IMO.
I hear people use the analogy of "Would you just let your child 'fight it off' if he/she was sick, or would you bring him/her to the doctor for treatment?" The problem with that analogy is that there is no doctor. Only an amateur hobbiest trying to do what they believe to be the right thing based on incomplete, and often conflicting, information gleaned over the internet or in a book, using multi-purpose medications that may or may not be effective against the particular illness the fish has and are often very toxic themselves (would you give your child a formaldehyde dip?)
So, please, let's not get all self-righteous about the care that other hobbiests choose to give their charges. There's just not enough information out there to know what really is the best course of action to treat ick, or any other sw fish illness. Even the experts can't agree, so let's not presume that any of us has the only right answer, ok?
I hear people use the analogy of "Would you just let your child 'fight it off' if he/she was sick, or would you bring him/her to the doctor for treatment?" The problem with that analogy is that there is no doctor. Only an amateur hobbiest trying to do what they believe to be the right thing based on incomplete, and often conflicting, information gleaned over the internet or in a book, using multi-purpose medications that may or may not be effective against the particular illness the fish has and are often very toxic themselves (would you give your child a formaldehyde dip?)
So, please, let's not get all self-righteous about the care that other hobbiests choose to give their charges. There's just not enough information out there to know what really is the best course of action to treat ick, or any other sw fish illness. Even the experts can't agree, so let's not presume that any of us has the only right answer, ok?
BTTRFLYGRL
New member
Like I said above, I do not mean to offend anyone...I do not believe I was getting 'self righteous' but with all the experts out there who pretty much have the SAME advice about ich [Noga, Fenner, StevenPro Our own Terryb and Leebca and others] why is it people still deny what has been proven to work at the expense of these beautiful fish?? Many people let their fish die because they don't want to take the time to treat..I do not mean anyone who has posted in this thread, but I have chatted with many people who feel if the fish is sick, let it die
That is sad to me.
Yes, sometimes medication can be harmful, in the wrong hands. I use Hypo for ich..And I have done formalin dips for a copepod /fluke infestation that nearly killed my Powder Brown.. A one hour dip is much safer than prolonged immersion. My Pwder Brown is alive because I took action..If I had left him in my tank, he'd be dead.
So medication used properly is not harmful..
Copper and Hypo and letting the tank go fallow have been PROVEN to work...People can deny it, but it is fact. If people want to believe garlic , uv lights, kick ich cured their fish then more power to them. If they want to live with ich in their tank....their business. I will listen to the experts and do what works.
By the way.....if a formlin dip would save my childs life, yes I would give her one
But since thats not a cure for any human disease, I won't worry about it
That is sad to me.Yes, sometimes medication can be harmful, in the wrong hands. I use Hypo for ich..And I have done formalin dips for a copepod /fluke infestation that nearly killed my Powder Brown.. A one hour dip is much safer than prolonged immersion. My Pwder Brown is alive because I took action..If I had left him in my tank, he'd be dead.
So medication used properly is not harmful..
Copper and Hypo and letting the tank go fallow have been PROVEN to work...People can deny it, but it is fact. If people want to believe garlic , uv lights, kick ich cured their fish then more power to them. If they want to live with ich in their tank....their business. I will listen to the experts and do what works.
By the way.....if a formlin dip would save my childs life, yes I would give her one
But since thats not a cure for any human disease, I won't worry about itSimilar threads
