Who's had Ich with no treatment and tank survived?

guyguerra

Premium Member
I've seen a few Ich spots on three of my fish in my display. I can't get the fish out, there is too much rock and coral in the way, there is no way to do it. So, my question is "who has left their tanks untreated after seeing signs of Ich, and what was the outcome"? I have a thread similar to this in the Large Tank Forum, but I haven't gotten many replies, so I am posting the question here as well. I'd like to keep this thread focused on the issue of what happens to reef tanks that have Ich and the fish are left in it because there is no choice, and avoid talking about QT and treatment methods since there are many threads on those topics. I would value anyones input that has been thru this first hand. Thanks, Guy
 
I had a very bad case of ich in my tank and it is now under control without the use of any meds. I reduced the number of fish, added a large UV sterilizer with a small pump, and did a lot of small water changes. It took about two months to clear up. Every now and then I may see one or two spots on my fish but then again they might not even be ich. I havent had any outbreaks in a while and I think its under control, or at least I hope it is.
 
My tank used to have ich all the time and I had to run copper continousely. That was many years ago. Not for some reason the fish are immune. I put fish in all the time with ich, it never causes any problems and always leaves on it's own. Of course, most reefs are not wierd like mine and I don't know why this is. Usually, when the tank is infected all the fish get it. If fish are in excellent breeding condition which they almost never are in a tank, then the ich may not be able to get a foothold. So I guess my answer to your question is a definate maybe.
Paul
 
I have on fish that has spots occasionally. He goes to the cleaner shrimp for treatment on his own, it's really a site to see. He bushes up against a rock nearby the shrimp, they scurry over and "clean him". This has been happening for about a month now. None of my other fish have had spots. I'm watching him carefully tho. Ich is a parasite and has a life cycle. I have a huge bottle of kick ich "reef safe" just in case it gets out of hand....
 
I appreciate these comments. So far, I believe in what each of you have experianced. I'd like to keep this thread going for a while to see what the average results are. Thank you for your input. Guy
 
I think cleaner shrimp help alot! My blue hippo in my 180 was covered in spots. I put in a cleaner shrimp and he had him picked clean in 2 days. After that i bought another one and I havent had any ich since.
 
I'd like to keep this thread focused on the original question "what happens to tanks when Ich has been seen in a tank, but cant be treated". But this eventually leads to a second question: What has happens when you introduced a new fish to a tank that had ich and was untreated? To qualify this, I am talking about fish that have been quarantined and are healthy. Does this stress on the tank lead to a flare up, and if so, is the flare up worse that the first encounter. Is there a stronger possibility that some of the fish will die.
Guy
 
Ackerman, I think that is something that's helping my tank also. I have three cleaner shrimp and I'm fortunate to have a cleaner wrasse that eats everything (almost everything) that I feed my other fish, and he considers it his job to clean everyone in the tank. Even the small dartfish will stand still for him. Pretty comical to watch. Cleaner wrasses don't have a good survival history in aquariums, but my buddies at the LFS called me when they saw this one was a good eater. At the time I never thought I'd have Ich in this tank because I was a QT fanatic, but bought him because I've always wanted one, but didn't want to buy one only to watch it starve to death. I use to think that with proper QT methods you could prevent Ich from getting into a tank, but now I feel it's impossible to prevent it 100% in larger tanks. Hippo's seem to do poorly against Ich. How much time has passed sine the Ich went away? It sounds obvious from your post that your were able to add fish later and didn't have another breakout. Especially interesting since it was another Hippo. Those shrimp deserve a good chunk of squid. Guy
 
I have never treated for ich. IME my other fish always stay happy and eating and the fish with ich pulls through as long as thier eating as well. i had a friend with a magnificent foxface in a 55 gal and it was about 6 in not happy at all and had ich so i moved him in my 200gal which was scary w/ my hippo in there but the magnificent ate right thru and all fish are still happy and alive.
 
VSpeck, have you seen Ich on the foxface after the initial onset? How long has it been since you last saw Ich on him? I have a 6" Foxface, and have observed many in public aquariums. These fish love to swim for long distances. My tank is 7ft and he swims straight line from on end to the other many times in a day. For Foxfaces, the longer the tank the better.
 
I like adding Lugol's to my tank for some added protection and benefits. Feeding vitamin enriched/soaked food helps out a lot too.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7147233#post7147233 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by XeniaMania
I like adding Lugol's to my tank for some added protection and benefits. Feeding vitamin enriched/soaked food helps out a lot too.





:lol: A guy came into the place I work to buy some Lugols on Sat..I thought for sure you sent him to tease me!!:lol:
 
I've successfully managed ich on a Yellowtail Angel twice without using either hyposalinity or copper. The first time was in Q - during a post acquisition outbreak. For several reasons my Q tank has some inverts in it (zoos, shrooms) - which effectively makes it a "mini" reef. I first treated by adding metronidazole to the water, but after several weeks the infection just got cyclically worse. I than switched to a medicated feed (metronidazole @ 250 mg/100 g (of food = fresh clams, mussels and frozen squid and supplemental vitamins), which was fed 2x per day, I added two cleaner shrimp, and put a UV filter in. Can't say what exactly what worked, but the infection cleared up relatively quickly, but believe that the shrimp played a big (probably biggest) role. The Yellowtail was "spot free" for about 6 weeks and then moved into my main display. Shortly thereafter my Regal Angel terrorised it and I started to notice white spots on it! The aggression was very persistent and I considered tearing my tank apart to get the fish out as I was worried about the health of the Yellowtail, but also that the Regal Angel and the others (including a Regal Tang) might come down hard with ich. However, as I had the medicated feed on hand I started up with it (1x/day) and added a second cleaner shrimp to the tank (one was already in there); but no UV. Again, not sure what worked but the fish slowly cleared up and has been fine ever since (well over a month now). It is also important to note that the aggression from the Regal Angel had abated considerably.

A long time prior to that when I got the Regal Tang, which was a tiny thing not more than 1.5" long, I noticed a couple of white spots, which I was reasonably certain were ich. There wasn't much I could do so I waited it out, focusing on water quality and nutrition (including the use of some supplemental vitamins) and the infection never developed into clinical disease. At the time there was one cleaner shrimp in the tank. I never saw Crypt in the tank until many months later during the Yellowtail incident.

So I guess only two of these incidences qualify as leaving the tank "alone" as the use of metro in the feed on the latter two incidences is next to impossible to assess/interpret. However, they all suggest to me that you can live with ich. I would only consider drastic treatment measures (= tearing you tank down to get the fish out and treating hypo or copper) if the infection became very severe and it was clear the fish would be lost if I didn't intervene.

I think VSpeck makes a very salient point about stress and the incidence and management of ich. If you reduce stress as much as possible, there is a good chance, IMO/E, that fish can fight it off via natural immunity. Without a doubt, the sit back and wait approach is very risky, and to a large extent dependent on the pathogenicity of the particular strain of Cryp you're dealing with and the physiological state of your fish (vis a vis stess). The issue of acquired immunity was discussed in a previous thread which you might be interesting in having a look at (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=700083).
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7147267#post7147267 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BTTRFLYGRL
:lol: A guy came into the place I work to buy some Lugols on Sat..I thought for sure you sent him to tease me!!:lol:

:lol: actually if I did something like that, he'd also mention something about his fish loving oranges...:lol:
 
In one tank and the other, yes, I've had the stuff over the years. Just got through a small bout with a stressed fish---turned out we'd set a mirror nearby, and he'd freaked. I used garlic, was all, for everybody but the mandarin (who eats only pods), and I had a cleaner shrimp in the tank. The ich is clearing in one day after the garlic, nobody else caught it, and I'm not that worried. I may be kidding myself, but I don't look for any more trouble. I have always seen it likely to appear in a stressed situation, or as the downhill slide in conjunction with another and more serious ailment.
 
I started my 3rd week with an ich infested tank all over 6 of my tangs. They are all still alive and doing better much better.

All I'm using to combat the ich was the new installment of a UV unit along side a Ozone unit.

The ich is still there but very low in concentrations from the visuals and the way my fish act.

Mike g
 
I started adding fish to my new tank in December. I have 3 green chromis and 2 clown perculas who have been exposed to ich twice. ( I lost a coral beauty to ich and six 6 weeks later I added another coral beauty and it died of ich also. ) I saw 1 spot on one of the perculas and nothing for about 2 months now. I am going to transfer the 5 fish to a QT tank and let my tank go fallow for 8 weeks. Haven't decided if I should treat the fish in QT for ich or not
 
I just moved my tank to a new house and a few spots popped up but other than that no, its been about 6 mos since the time i put him in. He loves to swim my tank is a 7ft 200 gal and my 6 tangs and him are up and down all day i have seen some spots on the blue but what else is expected.
 
IMO, the very word "Ich" has become synonymus with a wide assortment of diseases found on fish brought home from the LFS. In my experience, "Ich" is almost always introduced through new additions with the exception listed below.. Although it is not always the best idea to quaranteen, say if you were to try an Achilles or MI, a QT alleviates a great amount of the problems. The easiest way to setup a QT is to take a 20g or so, add heater, add LR from your sump(or MT) and a powerhead or filter with no media. Throw a low watt PC on it and your done.

Some general observations I have made...

Funguses are infections that almost always need medication. This can come from aggression, scratches from LR, stings from anemones, collecting, etc. If you see fungus(pop eye, cotton, etc.) on a fish that you really like at the LFS, put a hold on him and let them treat him before you bring him home, then QT.

Aggression in LFS tank...torn fins are one thing, but some fish like dottybacks can cause great internal problems for more docile fish. I look for breathing signs, general activity, appetite, discoloration over several days at the LFS. IMO, this area is greatly overlooked.

Electric shock. I have found on numerous occasions, stray voltage entering tank from faulty heaters or pumps. I imagine the LFS has many such loopholes. Heaters are easy and inexpensive to replace when purchased online. I change mine about every 15 months. Look for this when you always have "ick" and it never gets better or worsens.

Now the Ich. The so called maggot of our hobby IMO. These sprout where the conditions above are met. Stresses weaken the immune system and ick attaches but I don't believe ich itself kills the fish. If a fish cannot escape the aggressor or cannot eat, or does not have the means to combat infection, then he may worsen. I say may because some can combat an infection and get better some cannot. Some bite marks or hits are more damaging then others, and finally some enviroments are more conducive to health than others.

Once I add a fish, the inhabitants will most likely scatter. They regroup and form a scouting party then a possible attack on the new guy. I let them settle their differences for a few hours. If I observe great distress then I take the guy out who is easy to catch with all that aggression. If it is lessening then I wait. After 1 day, it's almost in the bag...just watch feeding and napping. Is the new guy eating? Is he resting or hiding next to your Tunze? If this guy does not workout I may try a different fish or introduce 2 at a time. What fish doesn't work out I GIVE back to LFS or friends. The LFS I know puts back in QT.

As for the rest of the fish...hmm other factors to consider like what were once inseperable friends are now rivals...I just let them play out. Bouts of ick will play out as well as long as the tank is healthy. The QT is insurance IMO against a deadlier form of disease such as velvet that can wipe out all the fish.
 
VSpeck, I have another question for you. Did you add anything when you moved your tank that could have introduced Ich? If you didn't, then it would seem that Ich has been in your tank from at least the point when you first noticed it on your Foxface. If you added anything from another system that had fish then this couldn't be proven. It would be interesting if nothing else was added. I just keep hammering away trying to find out if most of our tanks have it and it only shows when the tanks become distressed. I did not agree with this school of thought till lately, and collectively, with a group as large as this BB has, we should be able to determine if it's true. Questions like "if ich was seen in a tank 6 months ago and left untreated, is it still in the tank even though the fish have not shown a symptom in that duration"? Or "in a healthy tank what is the chance of survival without treatment"? The methods of treatment are well known and discussed to the point of redundancy, but I believe this topic could use more discussion and investigation.
Cecilturtle, I am also wondering about the losses of fish that are blamed on Ich. The amount of stress and shock that these animals go thru before ending up in a home aquarium, the change of diet, water, surroundings (all of a sudden seeing large animals thru the glass "humans"), has to take it's toll. We can die of a common cold if conditions and mental stress (shock) were bad enough. Then we throw in some copper or reduce salinity, and say Ich killed them when they die.
It's my hope that this thread will tell us how tanks fare with Ich when left untreated, or with less radical types of treatment (garlic, metronidazole, UV, water quality, etc..
chocolates mom, am I correct in understanding that you haven't used any treatments yet and your existing fish are still healthy? If so, you would really have to wonder weather putting them thru a copper or hypo treatment is better or worse for them. I've also had terrible experiences with Coral Beauties. I lost two of them in a row and decided not to try a third.
Sk8r, have you had ich in your tank over a long period then? If so, how often does it show up, and is it always a stressful event that causes it?
Mike G, I would be curious to see how your tank does. (My brothers name is Mike and our last name is Guerra). Ozone is something that I haven't heard anyone talk about for treatment or control of Ich. I also have an ozone generator on my tank (along with UV, which I thought about shutting off until this happened).
 

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