subarcticreef
Member
Thank you for the info!
Why can't I use vinegar to acidify my Calc. Reactor?
- Thread starter Servillius
- Start date
I am working on this concept -- I just took a plastic bottle and filled it with aragonite sand and vinegar.
So the theory is that you would end up with a solution of calc + alkalinity with a little bit of carbon from the acetate.
However it's pretty potent stuff, so I haven't done much with it so far, but I don't think you need much. My biggest tank is a 55g and it doesn't use much calcium, so I don't have much of a need for this stuff.
Also, I like deep sand beds, which do a fine job of maintaining alk and cal if you have mostly softies / lps.
So the theory is that you would end up with a solution of calc + alkalinity with a little bit of carbon from the acetate.
However it's pretty potent stuff, so I haven't done much with it so far, but I don't think you need much. My biggest tank is a 55g and it doesn't use much calcium, so I don't have much of a need for this stuff.
Also, I like deep sand beds, which do a fine job of maintaining alk and cal if you have mostly softies / lps.
You will dissolve some. The calcium carbonate will neutralize the vinegar after a bit is dissolved.
I don't think deep sand beds are as a general rule sufficient to meet the needs for calcium and carbonate of most corals particularly lps and sps, if you keep very many. Soft corals also use calcium and alkalinity in their sclerites.
I don't think deep sand beds are as a general rule sufficient to meet the needs for calcium and carbonate of most corals particularly lps and sps, if you keep very many. Soft corals also use calcium and alkalinity in their sclerites.
Servillius
New member
Hydrochloric is, if I remember correctly, a strong acid that fully disociates in water. Acetic acid on the other hand is weak and does not. I don't know whether this would render the conclusion as to hydrochloric wrong as to acetic, but I have a feeling it makes a big difference in this application.
Im going to bump this hoping someone has tried this and has results.
If you're dosing acetic acid as a carbon source for bacterial consumption.
What would be the effect of adding enough acetic acid to a calcium reactor to keep the pH at 6.. At the pH required to dissolve CaCo3 into ions.
Of course the Co3 buffers the acid, noted above. But it does this as well with CO2 and carbonic acid within the reactor chamber. Which is why one runs a steady stream of CO2 gas into the reactor.
Just curious if anyone actually performed the experiement.
Necro post joking accepted, it was the first Google hit.
If you're dosing acetic acid as a carbon source for bacterial consumption.
What would be the effect of adding enough acetic acid to a calcium reactor to keep the pH at 6.. At the pH required to dissolve CaCo3 into ions.
Of course the Co3 buffers the acid, noted above. But it does this as well with CO2 and carbonic acid within the reactor chamber. Which is why one runs a steady stream of CO2 gas into the reactor.
Just curious if anyone actually performed the experiement.
Necro post joking accepted, it was the first Google hit.
oceanarium
New member
I pondered about this some time back.
Conclusion i came too was the reactor would be difficult to manage and would not meet all the systems needs. As I already was dosing a carbon source a more simpler way to essentially achieve the same result was to dissolve coral skeletons into vinegar and dose this as my carbon source.
I don't understand the full chemistry of the mix ( I am no chemist by a long shot) but the vinegar becomes a complex of Sr, Mg and Ca acetates plus what ever the minor elements and contaminates might become.
Working as both a carbon source reducing NO3 and PO4 while adding some of my elemental needs which are then topped up via reactors and or dose stations. It is added as needed primarily for the carbon source value to keep N and P at the desired level the chemical additions a free bonus.
It works extremely well for me adding a lot of calcareous material to my systems. Greatly reducing my need for further additions. I would think it would go a long way on a FOLR set up or a more lightly stocked coral display.
I have been using this for some time now must be near a year and 1000ltrs of the vinegar solution without issue.
Conclusion i came too was the reactor would be difficult to manage and would not meet all the systems needs. As I already was dosing a carbon source a more simpler way to essentially achieve the same result was to dissolve coral skeletons into vinegar and dose this as my carbon source.
I don't understand the full chemistry of the mix ( I am no chemist by a long shot) but the vinegar becomes a complex of Sr, Mg and Ca acetates plus what ever the minor elements and contaminates might become.
Working as both a carbon source reducing NO3 and PO4 while adding some of my elemental needs which are then topped up via reactors and or dose stations. It is added as needed primarily for the carbon source value to keep N and P at the desired level the chemical additions a free bonus.
It works extremely well for me adding a lot of calcareous material to my systems. Greatly reducing my need for further additions. I would think it would go a long way on a FOLR set up or a more lightly stocked coral display.
I have been using this for some time now must be near a year and 1000ltrs of the vinegar solution without issue.
Direct vinegar or vodka dosing to a tank works fine and probably does add some of the major elements via aragonite dissolution depending on other variables like pH,for example.
As for using iacetic acid in a reactor my opinion has not changed.
As I noted 5 years ago see post# 18 ;a little more detail. Aside from control issues , vinegar is acetic acid and water it provides an organic carbon source ,acetate. It feeds heterotrophic bacteria which use oxygen and the oxygen from nitrate.
In a pressurized low flow environment like calcium reactor ;it is very likely the bacteria will colonize the media and their activity will exhaust the free oxygen and nitrate leaving anoxic water where sulfate reducing bacteria will use the oxygen from the sulfate and the acetate producing hydrogen sulfide as a by product.
CO2 alone does not feed the bacterial they need a source of organic carbon ;vinegar or vodka fits the bill.
As for using iacetic acid in a reactor my opinion has not changed.
As I noted 5 years ago see post# 18 ;a little more detail. Aside from control issues , vinegar is acetic acid and water it provides an organic carbon source ,acetate. It feeds heterotrophic bacteria which use oxygen and the oxygen from nitrate.
In a pressurized low flow environment like calcium reactor ;it is very likely the bacteria will colonize the media and their activity will exhaust the free oxygen and nitrate leaving anoxic water where sulfate reducing bacteria will use the oxygen from the sulfate and the acetate producing hydrogen sulfide as a by product.
CO2 alone does not feed the bacterial they need a source of organic carbon ;vinegar or vodka fits the bill.
