Why did you choose a Needle Wheel Skimmer?

[d2mini]

Was having this conversation with someone recently and I'd like to know your own personal feelings on the matter. If you know me and have been around my build threads you know I have a preference for using LifeReef skimmers which are venturi based. My own personal experience of using needle wheel skimmers vs LifeReef skimmers (my only experience with venturi based skimmers) is that the LR skimmers have been much easier to set up, are more consistent, much less finicky to changes in water chemistry, still produce nasty nasty skimmate, can run in a variety of water heights, and no proprietary pump or needle wheel to wear out/break. I like that I can use my choice of pump and get a replacement anywhere/anytime. You can also use ozone with them if you wish, and the cup recirculates unused ozone through the skimmer, no need for carbon. No maintenance required other than cleaning the cup and wiping the neck since this brand in particular sucks humid air from the cup into the venturi so no salt buildup to contend with. And finally, I haven't done this myself, but since the body is straight (not cone shaped) with a flanged top, they can be extended if you upgrade tanks, rather than having to purchase a whole new skimmer.

A couple advantages I can see to more modern needle wheel skimmers is they are smaller and more power efficient. So a tiny sump or when every kilowatt counts might be situations better suited to this option. No venturi to clog, but as stated this is a nil point with the LifeReef brand. Price is also an advantage in many cases.

So I'm just curious... especially to those who are NEW to the hobby... what made you choose a needle wheel? This is not a "which type of skimmer is better" thread. I just want to hone in on why YOU made the choice you did, that's all. Needle wheels dominate the hobby now and I'm curious why that is. Would really appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

Recommendation from your LFS or fellow reefers?
Sump size? Power requirements?
Didn't know any other option existed?
Were told they perform better?
Venturi is "old skool"?
Tried both and prefer the needle wheel? For what reason(s)?

Thanks!

 

[ReefPharmer]

They are much more widely available. If you take a look at the sales/buying threads/skimmers available from stores etc, they are almost all needlewheels. You really have to search and do your homework to get any info on venturi/lifereef

 

[mcgyvr]

Not sure I've ever seen a "needle wheel" skimmer without a venturi...

Isn't the "sales point" about a needle wheel being that it takes the bubbles created by the venturi and chops them up finer thus creating more surface area..

So I'm kind of confused here..

 

[d2mini]

Not sure I've ever seen a "needle wheel" skimmer without a venturi...

Isn't the "sales point" about a needle wheel being that it takes the bubbles created by the venturi and chops them up finer thus creating more surface area..

So I'm kind of confused here..

Hopefully you are smart enough to know what I meant and not literally confused.

 

[bblumberg]

I have a Lifereef SVS2-24 running my 75g corner. It replaced a Tunze 9010 when I switched to a custom Lifereef sump. The Lifereef works well enough that I have no real complaints with it. It came with Mag 9.5 (93 watts) and I upgraded to Sicce Syncra 5 (105 watts) which performed much better. In a rebuild, I dumped both the return (another Mag 9.5) and the skimmer pump and am running a Fluval SP6 (135 watts) powering a manifold that drives skimmer, return and reactors.

My 150g reef is running an Aquamaxx ConeS-Q2 (22 watts) and a Waveline DC10000II return (95 watts if at max, which it isn't). The skimmers perform comparably (although the Lifereef build quality is clearly better), but I'd say that the Aquamaxx gets a bit more gunky stuff out. Now ~80 watts difference is not a huge deal when considering all the rest of the power consumption in my tanks, but it is not insignificant either.

So for me, I like the lower power consumption of the needle wheel and the ease of cleaning it compared with the Lifereef. The Aquamaxx takes up about as much space since the pump is external. Both work well enough that I will keep the configuration as is.

 

[mcgyvr]

Hopefully you are smart enough to know what I meant and not literally confused.

:frog: yeah.. sorry..

ReefPharmer pretty much covered many of the big reasons why lifereef is kind of the lone wolf there..

A couple more for me are...
When you start in the $500 range and only have that single outdated website with just paragraph after paragraphs of text I wouldn't expect much..
They haven't kept up with the times... The "old skool" to me is really their marketing/sales/business tactics and methods..
Not on amazon?
Distributors?

 

[FirstContact]

Much more efficient pumps. (Also maybe more pump choices and less costly pumps?) Bigger neck/cup size? Haven’t seen a LR in person. Not at LFS and not at MACNA or anywhere else.

Also, I run an external skimmer. It’s much more consistent and less problematic than an in-sump needle wheel that’s dependent on water depth/height and more prone to overflows ie when the water level changes.

Hope that helps.

 

[Vinny Kreyling]

Many Moons ago when I had the 220 I needed a skimmer.
Since it was a "low boy" stand on a slab there was no basement & not much room next to the tank. Plus there was a shelf the previous skimmer sat on over a sump with "miracle mud". It had to work on a large volume & not be very high.
I finally settled on a DAS EX-3. I still use it today on my 250.

 

[yacn]

When I was new to this hobby my LFS sold me my 150 gallon all glass tank with twin built in overflows, an acrylic sump they had a company make for them locally, an external dolphin return pump since my tank is on first floor and sump is in basement, MH lights with VHO Actinic's, and a Euro-reef skimmer.

Not only did they have a retail fish store but they also did fish tank maintenance and installs for a lot of local restaurants, businesses, and home owners in my area. So I trusted them and their opinion.....but they went out of business about 4 years ago and only do tank maintenance these days.

Fast forward 11 years later, and it seems a lot has changed in the hobby.

But skimmers really haven't. Acrylic cylinder with a motor hooked up to it and something to make tiny bubbles to catch crap.

I don't know why people say skimmers are finicky and need constant adjustments.

Mine has been set it and forget it.

I've never had my venturi clog in 11+ years, I just empty the cup every so often, clean the skimmer every so often, and replace the motor or needle wheel every few years.

I've tested my old Euro Reef side by side with a Super Reef Octopus xl 2000 cone skimmer a couple of years ago, and they both performed about the same. Pulling dark smelly crap out of the water. Both were set it and forget it.

The motor died on my SRO about 4 months ago, and they want $200 to replace it. I can practically buy a new skimmer for that amount of money. So I pulled out my old Euro Reef out of storage, and have been using that again. I thought about buying another skimmer and even contacted Life Reef. I feel LR are too expensive and require an expensive larger energy eating motor to go with it. Plus I really doubt the LR skimmer will do a better job than my current skimmer. I agree with others that their website is stale and if it wasn't for this forum & skimmer club most wouldn't know much about LR, but the owner seems like a good guy from the dialogue I had with him.

I don't have a ton of space in my sump so I need a small footprint skimmer. I'm leaning toward Bubble Magus Curve 7 if I ever decide to pull the trigger since it will fit perfectly in the area of the sump I have available and will work in the depth of water my sump is currently at. But I'm in no hurry to spend money on another skimmer if I don't have to.

Hope this helps! I appreciate the feedback and help all the people have offered me on this forum...Thank you!

 

[d2mini]

Thanks for the replies, I'd spread "LIKES" if I could. lol

I think mcgyver touched on something important... distribution/availability.
You won't see anything but cone/needlewheel/etc in any LFS.
And lifereef or whomever else is still around seems to deal purely through their own website. So yeah, very little to no exposure.

 

[ajoe]

I think you said it best: "smaller and more power efficient". So for me it is simply that. Form factor and efficiency/operational cost.

 

[d2mini]

I think you said it best: "smaller and more power efficient". So for me it is simply that. Form factor and efficiency/operational cost.

Maybe. Neither of those would be a factor for me personally. But definitely can see how it would be for some.

 

[mgreenough]

I am in the uk so needle wheels are pretty much standard, i did not even know about venturi skimmers until reading about them on here.

I started off with a bubble magus curve7 which worked fine initially but clogged easily with stray macro algae pieces. Then was the overflow issues if my sump water height increased due to clogged weir in first chamber (macro algae chamber). It would occasionally overflow putting the skimmate back into the water, causing a foam party in the sump.

So looked around the second hand market for a LR skimmer for ages, as cost for new with shipping to uk was too much. Finally found an original v1 24" model for £70 and put a Jebao DCP6500 on it. Works flawlessly at any water height, and have never looked back.

 

[yacn]

I started off with a bubble magus curve7 which worked fine initially but clogged easily with stray macro algae pieces. Then was the overflow issues if my sump water height increased due to clogged weir in first chamber (macro algae chamber). It would occasionally overflow putting the skimmate back into the water, causing a foam party in the sump.

I don't have a refugium with macro algae in my sump. I just purchased an ATS from Turbo Aquatics....arrived today!! My sump has a constant water level where the skimmer is located. Hoping if I ever decide to go with Bubble Magus Curve 7 I won't experience the same clogging problem you mentioned.

When I looked into LR skimmers....they recommend blue line 30 external pump or equivalent. I'm already running a Iwaki 70 as a return pump on my system....I don't want to cut another hole in my sump and add another external return pump for a protein skimmer. They mention the larger MagDrive pumps as an alternative. Just another reason leaning toward needle wheel skimmers

 

[mgreenough]

You can use the skimmer external or internally, mine is sat inside the sump with a jebao dcp6500 pump. So if you have space for a BM7 then you have room for a LR.

I don't have a refugium with macro algae in my sump. I just purchased an ATS from Turbo Aquatics....arrived today!! My sump has a constant water level where the skimmer is located. Hoping if I ever decide to go with Bubble Magus Curve 7 I won't experience the same clogging problem you mentioned.

When I looked into LR skimmers....they recommend blue line 30 external pump or equivalent. I'm already running a Iwaki 70 as a return pump on my system....I don't want to cut another hole in my sump and add another external return pump for a protein skimmer. They mention the larger MagDrive pumps as an alternative. Just another reason leaning toward needle wheel skimmers

 

[yacn]

I'm not familiar how an external skimmer works and would be concerned about it over flowing just like internals skimmers do occasionally. I'd rather keep the any overflow in my system.... not causing a wet mess everywhere, or the possibility of increased top off water being added to my system.

Your jaebo pump has a footprint almost equivalent to footprint of the BMC7....add the LR skimmer internally and it has a much larger footprint.

 

[d2mini]

I'm not familiar how an external skimmer works and would be concerned about it over flowing just like internals skimmers do occasionally. I'd rather keep the any overflow in my system.... not causing a wet mess everywhere, or the possibility of increased top off water being added to my system.

Your jaebo pump has a footprint almost equivalent to footprint of the BMC7....add the LR skimmer internally and it has a much larger footprint.

Jeff always recommends running internally unless you can't for some reason.

And yeah, for the purpose of this thread I'm talking about internal skimmers. Keep it simple.

 

[Piper27]

I'm not familiar how an external skimmer works and would be concerned about it over flowing just like internals skimmers do occasionally. I'd rather keep the any overflow in my system.... not causing a wet mess everywhere, or the possibility of increased top off water being added to my system.

Your jaebo pump has a footprint almost equivalent to footprint of the BMC7....add the LR skimmer internally and it has a much larger footprint.

External skimmers have backups where they cant overflow. They are the safest option imo.

 

[Piper27]

I find mazzei or Beckett injected skimmers work better on large systems with lots of fish. Needle wheels are fine on smaller tanks with not as much nutrients going into the water. I also prefer them when I am using a lot of any carbon source.

 

[ca1ore]

I think the venturi/needle wheel skimmers win on form factor and efficiency. I also think they are more than sufficient for the vast majority of reef systems. Also agree that the direct sell skimmers have horribly outdated websites and obviously no retailer support. Even if you buy from the bigger online places, seems to me the selection is only needle wheels.

Now, if you have a really big system and are looking for something beyond the standard range of ‘toy’ skimmers there are some interesting massei or Beckett driven units, but you’ve really got to want to find them.