Why do clownfish babies dye after sponge filter added?

Lou Young

Lou Young

New member
My babies are dying after meta when I add the sponge filter. I seed it in sump of the parents tank for atleast 2 weeks. The babies are dying sometime after lights out. I am losing around 15-20 per day. I change 2 gallons a day in the morning when I sipjon their 10 gallon tank and I slow drip new salt water back in to replace what I siphoned. I test the water and all the parameters are in check. I don't understand what is happening. Please help. Thank you.
 
Hypothesis: Change in ammonia/nitrites/nitrates. A severe decrease ammonia/nitrites already present in the rearing tank, followed by a severe increase in nitrates. Basically a giant change in the tank's water parameters. Have you checked the tank parameters before and after you added the sponge filter?

Hypothesis: New saltwater. You say you're adding new saltwater. Again, vast difference in the tank's water parameters, especially if you've replaced 20% of the water. How slow is the drip when you add new water? Maybe next time try with parent fish tank water?

Hypothesis: Change in current. How fast is the current (bubbles/second or bubbles/minute, whatever) before you add the sponge filter? After? They might be dying of exhaustion, especially if it goes with hypothesis below.

Hypothesis: Nutrition. Meta takes a lot of energy for larval fish. Are they eating enough? How many (and what kind) of prey items are they taking at this point?

What's your setup like? Does it have a sump? Is it just a plain 10 gallon tank? My apologies, but I can only provide hypotheses, since I've never bred fish before. I've only read through many articles and books.
 
Thank you for all the information. I will take a look at it all.
1. I will make note of the water parameters before and after adding the sponge.
2. I drip in the new saltwater probably too fast. It's 1 gallon in about 10 minutes.
3. My bubble rate with sponge is a lot harder than it was with the airstones
4. I feed them TDO a 3 times a day.
5. It's just a 10 gallon tank. No sump. Close to 200-250 babies.

Would it be better to slowly drip in parent water than use new water?
 
Ok, you need to drip in the new water VERY slowly, I think the estimated time was overnight (8 hours) for a water change.
Are they all eating TDO? Some of them might not, and could be starving, and therefore dying.
 
I overlap the TDO a for 4 days while I am still feeding them rotifers so I think they are all eating the TDO. Checking back in my notes from other batches shows that I am experiencing these losses when I add the sponge filter. I start water changes in day 3 and have been replacing the water the same way and I don't get these losses until I add the sponge. It's just very confusing because I thought the sponge was to make a biological filter in the larvae tank. #frustrating.
 
Hmm....has the parent tank been treated with anything? Prophylactic copper? Do the dead fry show any obvious signs, such as streaky gills, pinched bellies/backs, or other symptoms? Before death, are they acting abnormally in any way, shape, or form (i.e. swimming upside down, gasping at surface, clamped fins, etc.)? Also, what type of sponge are you using?

I just saw the part about water flow. If it's a lot harder, then maybe the fish are struggling against a current? Kind of like how if you've been swimming in a still pond, then get caught in a riptide in the ocean. You'll get exhausted because you're not used to the sudden strain due to water currents. Perhaps something similar is happening with the clownfish?
If it's working for you, then don't change it. Again, I'm going directly off of what I've read and don't have any experience....
 
Lou Young said:
3. My bubble rate with sponge is a lot harder than it was with the airstones
Click to expand...

Could definitely be an issue. Start it with bubble rate providing the same current strength as the airstones. Then slowly increase the bubble rate as they adjust to the addition of the filter.

One other possibility, there is some protozoan coming in with the sponge that the babies can't handle.

As for rate of adding new water, so long as the new water is well aged, it's a none issue.
 
Lou Young said:
Is there a way to test to see if there is a protozoan?
Click to expand...

That's the tricky part. Takes a combination of a decent microscope and sacrificing a fish for examination that is still alive, but showing obvious symptoms...think of the old Monty Pyton "I'm not dead yet" as the ideal candidate.
 
Lou what do you feed your rotifers and have you ever considered using self cultured green water (Nannochloropsis) is there any cons of using self cultured?
Im planning on breeding clowns and have read Joyce wilkerson's Clownfishes and she uses self cultured(Nannochloropsis) and has success any reason to stay away from this?
Thank You
 
I feed the rotifers RG Complete and I use Rotigreen omega for green water. Both products are made by reed Mariculture.
 
billsreef said:
That's the tricky part. Takes a combination of a decent microscope and sacrificing a fish for examination that is still alive, but showing obvious symptoms...think of the old Monty Pyton "I'm not dead yet" as the ideal candidate.
Click to expand...

My friend has a scope I can borrow. What exactly would I be looking for? Thanks.
 
Nanno is great for growing rotifers, but lacks a good fatty acid profile. A lot has been learned since Joyce wrote that book, even since her passing. If you use nanno, you really should enrich prior to feeding your rots to the larvae.
 
Lou Young said:
My friend has a scope I can borrow. What exactly would I be looking for? Thanks.
Click to expand...


Look for parasites. Umm...probably look for anything that isn't a rotifer, microalgae or copepod. You might check for parasites like velvet or ich. Or for bacteria, such as Pseudomonas or Vibrio. Basically, check for anything that doesn't look like it should be there.

@Reefbuilder, you can also switch between Nannochloropsis and Isochrysis to get a more complete EPA/DHA profile. Usually rotifers will be more nutritious with a mix of Iso and Nanno. Copepods will thrive on Iso and Tetraselmis.
 
ichthyogeek said:
Look for parasites. Umm...probably look for anything that isn't a rotifer, microalgae or copepod. You might check for parasites like velvet or ich. Or for bacteria, such as Pseudomonas or Vibrio. Basically, check for anything that doesn't look like it should be there.

@Reefbuilder, you can also switch between Nannochloropsis and Isochrysis to get a more complete EPA/DHA profile. Usually rotifers will be more nutritious with a mix of Iso and Nanno. Copepods will thrive on Iso and Tetraselmis.
Click to expand...

And blends tend to be better for rots as well...
 
Lou Young said:
My friend has a scope I can borrow. What exactly would I be looking for? Thanks.
Click to expand...

Odd things attached to the fish, generally body and fins, with fins being most apparent. Squashing a clipping of the gills under a cover slip is a good way of inspecting the gills for parasites. Your also looking for telltale damage can be the result of parasites.
 
GreshamH said:
Nanno is great for growing rotifers, but lacks a good fatty acid profile. A lot has been learned since Joyce wrote that book, even since her passing. If you use nanno, you really should enrich prior to feeding your rots to the larvae.
Click to expand...

So home culturing is a no go?
 
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