Why do my Mandarins Keep Dying?

A

aj2494

New member
I have a 55 with a 29 sump that I have had set up since October. The tank has actually been mature much longer than that, cause I bought it used with fish and some LR, and then added a bunch more LR in January. There's probably around 60+ lbs. I bought a mandarin from ARC about 2 weeks ago, and he only lasted about 2 days. Luckily, ARC replaced him, but I just lost the replacement this weekend, so I had this one about a week. I know they're tough to feed, but there's no way that one ate all the pods in my tank in a week. Params are all fine too. What the hell is going on? I'm starting to get frustrated.

On a side note, to add to my frustration, my dwarf lion decide to chow down on one of my dragon sifter gobies the other day, adding to my frustration. I've had a rough couple of weeks.
 
How big is the Lion?

I'm not so sure those two species are very compatible.


*If you figure it out and decide to try another, I'd recommend an ORA one that was eating prepared.
 
aj2494 said:
I have a 55 with a 29 sump that I have had set up since October. The tank has actually been mature much longer than that, cause I bought it used with fish and some LR, and then added a bunch more LR in January. There's probably around 60+ lbs. I bought a mandarin from ARC about 2 weeks ago, and he only lasted about 2 days. Luckily, ARC replaced him, but I just lost the replacement this weekend, so I had this one about a week. I know they're tough to feed, but there's no way that one ate all the pods in my tank in a week. Params are all fine too. What the hell is going on? I'm starting to get frustrated.

On a side note, to add to my frustration, my dwarf lion decide to chow down on one of my dragon sifter gobies the other day, adding to my frustration. I've had a rough couple of weeks.
Click to expand...

When you say "params are all fine", specifically what parameters and what are the measurements?
How did you acclimate your fish?
Can you see pods in the tank?
Do you have a refugium?
What fish did you have in there besides the lion and goby? Any hawks or wrasses?
Was anything chasing them around?

I think that the system may still be too new for a mandarin. Even though you bought a system from someone, there is a new tank cycle any time you move tank. I'd have recommended having it in place for at least year.

Still, 2-7 days is pretty fast for one of these guys to starve to death. Other than metabolism, they are known to be hardy. Unless they were pretty famished when you got them, I wouldn't rule out issues with acclimation to the tank itself, or something in the tank harassing them.
 
Becuse you have tried 2 the only way they are starving is if the fish store got a batch or non eaters so i'd say its probably an enviromental issue. At my LFS this is one of the only species that they put a hold on to make sure that they are eating properly.I personaly have had great luck with the two I have (they are in different tanks one in my reef the other in my seahorse tank) but many people do not.If mine get a little on the skinny side (hasn't happened in quite awhile) ill suplimenty with some fresh hatched brine shrimp every few days,I would notice that before the belly looked truly sunk in he started getting two skin "flaps" that started around his "chest" and came together at his tail to form a V.The mandarin is one of my favorites I hope you have luck in the future.
 
You really should try to train them first. Place them in a breeder net for a few days and shoot food in it. I found bloodworms and brine seems to be their favorite. It seems they are near death when they arrive at hte lfs, it a shame they are such beautiful fish.
 
I don't actually test my water myself, I just take it to ARC when I need to. I don't remember the results, except that ammonia, nitrates and nitrites were at basically zero, and they refunded me after the test so there couldn't have been anything wrong. The lion is maybe 3.5-4", but it definitely wasn't him, although I know he ate the body.

When I got the first one, it was a little thin, but not too severe. The second looked good, but as time progressed, I could see him get thinner and thinner. I'm 95% sure it was a food issue. The weird part is that I tried feeding brine shrimp, and the mandarin ignored them literally floating past his head.
 
you KNOW the Lionfish ate the body?

so lemme get this straight... you saw a dead Mandarinfish and then watched your Lionfish eat it's carcass?
 
aj2494 said:
On a side note, to add to my frustration, my dwarf lion decide to chow down on one of my dragon sifter gobies the other day, adding to my frustration. I've had a rough couple of weeks.
Click to expand...
*Mandarins are notorious for being slow moving
*Mandarins go into a "torper" sleep like state at night where they're immobile
*Lionfish are venomous crepuscular hunters
and in this particular case we know the prime suspect likes the taste of Goby...... and can nab even the quick moving species!

hmmmmm.......
 
I guess it could have been the lion, but when the mandarin went missing, the lion's stomach was not swollen at all. It was a day later that I found the body, half eaten and really the only one who could have handled that much is the lion, so I know he ate the carcass.

Culprit aside, I still had a mandarin get very thin and that wouldn't accept brine like ARC said they all would. Were they just bad eaters?

On another side note, this stupid lion went on another rampage and polished off my second goby. I'm really hating him right now.
 
Not trying to sound harsh, but you shouldn't rely on a LFS to test your water for you. You don't remember the results? :crazy1: Buy yourself a decent set of test kits and browse the forum (heck, post a thread!) for any potential tank additions that you're uncertain about before making a trip to the store. Impulse decisions like that will drive you out of the hobby in no time... a little effort will go a long way. :)
 
Your Mandarin needs to be in a non-agressive DT. Preferrably with fish that will not compete with it for what it eats. I had one all by itself in my cyrptic-zone tank for a year and a half before it passed.....and i NEVER had to feed it. Also dude, you NEED to learn, and get in the habit of testing your water YOURSELF....for most EVERYTHING.
By Salifert test kits for: pH, KH/ALK, Ca, NO3, PO4, Mg, Sr and I2(Iodine)..and get BUSY! :).
 
aj2494 said:
I guess it could have been the lion, but when the mandarin went missing, the lion's stomach was not swollen at all. It was a day later that I found the body, half eaten and really the only one who could have handled that much is the lion, so I know he ate the carcass.

Culprit aside, I still had a mandarin get very thin and that wouldn't accept brine like ARC said they all would. Were they just bad eaters?

On another side note, this stupid lion went on another rampage and polished off my second goby. I'm really hating him right now.
Click to expand...

Mandarins have very high metabolism. You'll notice that a healthy and acclimated mandarin constantly forages for food, picking at live rock every few seconds to eat amphipods and their larvae.

Tank feeding is really just a supplement. A lot of people mention training them to eat frozen and pellet, but you can't train them to have a slower metabolism.
 
I was just feeding him to get something in his stomach because I was getting worried. And the guys at ARC are very nice, but they knew how big my dwarf was, sold me the mandarins, and then told me today that the lion would have eaten the mandarin anyway. So, yes, Johnny C, you are definitely right. I am coming from my experience in freshwater where I was able to go into any LFS and pick out the fish that would/wouldn't work in my tank. I just got complacent, and I guess I can't necessarily trust everything employees say. After all, their main goal is to sell livestock.
 
As someone who worked at ARC for several years, I can honestly say that the staff makes a personal effort to give honest advice. Responsible aquarium stores want your tank to thrive... it keeps them in business! However, it's impossible to keep track of the stocking choices of every customers aquarium nor is it the responsibility of the store to do so. Sites like these are filled with valuable information; use it to your advantage! :)

PS- Getting back to the original topic, it sounds like the death of both your mandarin fish and sifter gobie were due to predation, not starvation. When these types of fish suffer in health, they slowly but surely display a sunken stomach and stop accepting food of any kind; they don't [typically] die in a matter of day(s). Case in point- don't add predatory lion fish (dwarf or otherwise) in the same aquarium with docile gobies.
 
wow mandarins are getting a lot publicity lately.. mandarins are not the simplest of fish to keep, imo if u really wany to keep one i would get rid of anything predatory or that the mandarin will have to compete for food with. then i would wait a couple months letting my pod population skyrocket as he will wipe out that 55 cuzz they eat non stop! then take a stab at it.. also i wouldnt get any hopes up on a ora mandarin, i had one and it was one of the worst purchases i made, it didnt do anything, went nowhere near rocks and did not eat anything. needless to say i got rid of it, i know have a wild one and he is very happy and has started taking a liki.g to mysis... good luck

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