organism
code monkey
Lol! I'd love to see that thread.
There's tons of them if you search around, each one is facepalm material
Why do we attack eachother on prices?
- Thread starter kichimark
- Start date
There's tons of them if you search around, each one is facepalm material
mallorieGgator
New member
There's tons of them if you search around, each one is facepalm material
Lol! I shall search!
XSharkboyX
Wishin' I Was Fishin'
:beer: Agreed!
kichimark
Μολὼν λαβ
watch this be considered still part of the good old days if this happens.
A. Grandis
Active member
Bottom line: if you buy, they will sell.
Also, before they would get wild colonies. Today the frags are from aquaculture and they will try make the extra money. The excuse is that they are taking the time and investment for the aquacultured frags.
the system changed and only some people noticed.
That's the reality.
Grandis.
Also, before they would get wild colonies. Today the frags are from aquaculture and they will try make the extra money. The excuse is that they are taking the time and investment for the aquacultured frags.
the system changed and only some people noticed.
That's the reality.
Grandis.
organism
code monkey
Nope, that's not the reality, that's the fantasy. Today more than ever they get wild colonies and chop shop them. A lot of frags used to be aquacultured 8 years ago, and now it's just a very small percentage because vendors rely on the misconception that if it's on a frag plug then it must be aquacultured. The system did change, just in the opposite direction.
Read some of Eddie's blog, the link is one of the posts above. In reality, most of the so called "aquacultured" frags are chop shopped from wild imports. There was a day you could buy a multi branched SPS frag, and it would substantial encrusting of the base...now such frags are barely encrusted because they are chopped and barely allowed to attach before sale. Another interesting note is just how much wild stock these "aquaculture" places import, some of them are actually the largest importers of corals. Seems a bit strange for an "aquaculture" operation to be importing so many corals.
Know what else seems a bit strange? The prevalence of coral predator hitchhikers on "aquacultured" corals. Y'know, the corals that have been in grow out tanks for months while the grower patiently waits for them to reach a saleable size? Where they have plenty of time for observation of said corals, and a vested interest in seeing them grow quickly and with vigor? Where the presence of predators would significantly cut into their bottom line, potentially devastating their broodstock but at the least cutting down on the amount of product they could produce in any given period?
Gee.
djkms
Fish Freak
So what online vendors can we trust to have true aquacultured? I have been having issues with wild colonies not surviving in my system. Not all but I would say 50% of them die within the first couple of months. I dont want to buy "aquacultured" from a vendor just to face the same issue as I do with wild colonies because they misrepresented themselves.
I would venture to guess Live Aquaria's Aquacultured is true but who else?
I would venture to guess Live Aquaria's Aquacultured is true but who else?
Whooo. Honestly, I'm reluctant to name names on RC. It's their playground, their rules, and their relationship with their sponsors. I'll confirm that you are indeed very safe with Live Aquaria and can trust that however they label a coral, it will be accurate. Beyond that the easiest recommendation is stick to sites that offer WYSIWYG photos of their frags; with a photo of the individual frag you can usually see if the coral has encrusted (assuming it's a type that will) the frag plug they've mounted it to. Even that isn't a 100% guarantee of anything beyond the coral having been in that dealer's care for at least a several week minimum, but at least it should show that the coral is handling captivity alright and growing.
Your issues with 50% of the wild colonies you get dying is a bit troubling, though, since that shouldn't be happening. When people talk about problems with wild colonies we're generally talking about problems that stem from poor shippers (like wild collected xenia, or large acropora colonies) that don't have a great track record with the collection, holding, shipping process. Or we're talking corals that have specific difficulties, like goniopora in general or elegance corals from indonesia.
Assuming the mortality rate you're seeing is across the board and not confined to specific issues like mentioned above, the first question I'd ask is where are you getting them? Mostly from one LFS or vendor? If so, I'd recommend trying somewhere else.
organism
code monkey
Here's a cool video I saw floating around facebook this morning, an rc sponsor too
http://www.spokesman.com/video/2011/mar/02/coral-farming/
djkms
Fish Freak
I dont want to sidetrack this thread more so then I already did. The corals I am having a problem with have been SPS. I posted a thread in the SPS section in regards to it.
So RC would have a problem us listing vendors if they are not sponsors? I guess I dont understand I see it all the time with no repercussions.
Im not saying to name the vendors who chop shop or improperly list, im looking for the good guys without naming the bad guys
I will be more proactive at looking for WYSIWYG.
I wish ORA would sell to the general public.
So RC would have a problem us listing vendors if they are not sponsors? I guess I dont understand I see it all the time with no repercussions.
Im not saying to name the vendors who chop shop or improperly list, im looking for the good guys without naming the bad guys
I will be more proactive at looking for WYSIWYG.
I wish ORA would sell to the general public.
It's only a problem if the person dropping business names is somehow associated with that business
Im not saying to name the vendors who chop shop or improperly list, im looking for the good guys without naming the bad guys
That's the best way to do it, avoids all sorts of trouble
bluenassarius
retired algae slanger
you can't really police it. there are always going to be newbs in the hobby. i remember a friend telling me about how he bought a "superman monti" and how he was going to make a killing when he resold frags from it after it grew out. he convinced his wife it was a good investment at $100 per half inch at the time. :lol: needless to say by the time it started growing out where it was viable to frag and resell.. it was being farmed out in the ocean. you could buy whole colonies at a few frags combined would cost..
i roll my eyes now after being on both sides of the spectrum.. commercial and hobbyist. there's a lot of greed and exploiting new hobbyists... it's the nature of the beast though. you don't see lions passing up an injured zebra on the savannah. :lol:
bluenassarius
retired algae slanger
your in the wrong part of the country. its available at the LFS and even some stores that aren't soley for the purpose of selling aquatic goods. i remember picking up some superman rhodactis mushroom colony at this livestock feed store for $7. it was being sold at time per polyp $25+ by e-tailers. LFS that were in the know were marking it up but not as excessively as e-tailers. this store i purchased it from had it under daylight.
now i peruse the LFS from time to time to see what has been coming down the pipelines and see killer stuff for dirt cheap. i have to resist the urge to set up another tank as i see it as a prison sentence :lolspin:
A. Grandis
Active member
Thanks organism!
Well, I've seen some frags that actually come with wild live rocks' pieces, but they were SPS or LPS species. I don't buy the frags and thought the wild Zoanthids' colonies were not coming to the market like before. :hmm4:
That IS disgusting!!!!:eek1:
A. Grandis
Active member
Thanks billsreef! I didn't want to hear that, but I believe that's the reality, yes!! I can see that!! We don't buy inverts here if not from Hawaiian waters, so I didn't think of that aspect.
I guess this is probably the worse of the market's today, then!
I'm shocked!
I think that happens here in Hawaii too, with the Hawaiian zoas.:hmm6:
Well, in reality there is NO aquacultured frags, then?
Probably not!!! If so, only small quantities, right?
Not good!
Grandis.
A. Grandis
Active member
After knowing the reality, I wouldn't trust nobody.
Sorry!!!
Still shocked.:wildone:
Grandis.
A. Grandis
Active member
"... While on the topic of aquaculture, let's have a look at the false notion that keeping frags and promoting frags, even captive grown frags are deterring wild coral collection. The idea is good but again is flawed. Here is a typical example. A nice wild echino soon to be the "œnew watermelon chalice" is collected from the wild. It is sent to a wholesaler in the US. The coral gets picked up by a smart guy that specializes in fragging. He knows the value of this coral. I don't blame the guy, to make money, I would do the same. So he cuts up the precious colony into many parts. Even glues them on a plug and let's them heal. Then he smartly calls it a special name and starts to market it. The demand skyrockets. He is finally left with one piece to grow out. But he is still getting huge demand. The price starts to climb on this precious little thing. The frags become from an inch to three quarters, to half of an inch! The guy feeds the coral everyday and keeps it under pristine conditions hoping that it grows faster. The other guys who have bought the coral are doing the same thing. If the coral can grow fast enough to supply the demand, yes it can be kept internal. Unfortunately coral do not grow as fast we would like, so the pressure eventually mounts to the collector side "“ me! The lucky guy who found the precious piece originally goes back to the wholesaler and waits for the "œwild coral" shipment to arrive every week. Heck, he even camps out and helps open up the boxes in hoping to find another piece or perhaps a new morph or coral that he can market again and make 100,000% profit! Of course this is not to mention his famous name that is being developed because of the precious chalice. Pictures are sent to overseas for that coral to be found, to me. Of course I say you and hundred other people are looking for this coral from the wild! They will pay whatever for it and will go any lengths to get it. The fishermen don't really know so they will get whatever they find. If you are lucky one will be there and it could be a 15 inch monster. I've sent out such pieces (not the watermelon but another killer piece) and of course it got fragged. And for course I sent it for that such purpose because my customer had requested it, because his customer had requested it. And the demand eventually came from the hobbyists, trying to collect all the nicest pieces. Are you guys getting my point? The demand for zoos and palys are even worse. With all the crazy names out there being marketed under, and the demand skyrocketing, right now I export on the average of 150-200 of these at a time on a shipment.
..."
Form:
http://eddie-coral-adventures.blogspot.com/2009/02/thoughts-on-wild-coral-export.html
It goes on!
:worried:
Grandis.
..."
Form:
http://eddie-coral-adventures.blogspot.com/2009/02/thoughts-on-wild-coral-export.html
It goes on!
:worried:
Grandis.
