why is a wet dry so hard to dial in ?

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12317972#post12317972 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
Do you disagree that he doesn't need the canister filter.
If the system was running smooth then I would keep it but only to run carbon.

I agree that the sump is too small---shame on me for not seeing that

actually if all the media were removed from the trickle filter on the left he might have enough room in his sump??

 

[cyacop]

so if i am reading all this correctly i need a new sump and a dual tube over flow. which to me if you read between the lines this whole set up is no good and i need to start completely over. nice !

 

[seanb1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12317950#post12317950 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cyacop
it seems that a bigger sump would only delay the existing problem. eventually the pump is going to whittle away at the bigger sump and it would just be a matter of time before that sump was low. i am not questioning your advice. i am very new. just making an observance

#1 the tank holds only so much water before the overflow starts.


#2 his sump must hold enough water to fill his tank up and start the overflow process.


his sump is emptying out and cannot keep the circulation going.

to accomplish this he would have to add water to the sump, but in doing so he would be adding water to the sump system and its area cannot hold that much water.
so in the event of power failure his sump would overflow.

you guys can tweak his pumps and pipes and shutoffs all you want but the outcome will always be the same unless the sump area is increased.

theres no other answer to this problem, none.

 

[seanb1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12318022#post12318022 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cyacop
so if i am reading all this correctly i need a new sump and a dual tube over flow. which to me if you read between the lines this whole set up is no good and i need to start completely over. nice !

no you only need a bigger sump, overflow is fine.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

who said the sump is too small?
How would anyone know that?

in that picture there's not enough water in the sump. The pump should be fully submerged.
Bioballs take up practically NO sump capacity. Removing them will not result in any more sump room.

 

[cyacop]

i thought the over flow was not returning enough water fast enough to keep up with the pump. but you are saying that a bigger sump will fix every thing. what size sump do you guys recommend? here are the specs on what i have :

Wet/Dry System: Dimension 20" Long, 8" wide, and 14" tall
Overflow Box: Dimension 6 x 3 x 6 inside and 6" long, 10" high, and 4" wide for outside the tanks
Pump: Rio 2100 37 watts Capacity 700 Gallons per hour
Protein Skimmer: 20 Watts with pump capacity 295 Gallons per hour

 

[wiscsaltwater]

were not saying remove the bio balls because they take up too much room, were saying reomve them because they are bad for saltwater filtration, I also disagree that your sump is too small, what you need to do is set your water level in your tank so its just not overflowing into the box, then fill your sump to the tip top with saltwater and start your return pump, this should start the overflow in the tank and keep your sump at a satisfactory level. I really dont think size is the issue ive seen 5 gallon sumps on 125 gallon tanks.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

straighten out the plumbing lines

straighten out the plumbing lines

too many kinks and elbows in the flex PVC

a bigger pump isn't going to solve your problem

your system needs more water in it

 

[seanb1]

theres only one way to use your existing equipment.

you would need to shut off your return pump and fill the sump to the top with water.

thats all your sump can hold with all the water drained from the main tank.

turn your return pump on with no restriction on its flow.

it will send all the water to the tank that it can before the overflow starts returning water to the sump.

if it empties out the sump before the overflow can get water returned to the sump, the sumps area is too small.

you have to remember that all your return lines are full of the water so it must be able to hold enough water to fill those up and start your overflow.
im just guessing by the picture that that sump will only hold 3 gallons of water, so that 3 gallons must fill your tank and the return lines, everything, it just doesnt have the area to do it.

 

[cyacop]

ok i will give that a shot. i know about changing the bio balls to live rock but i want to figure out these problems before i go one step further.

 

[wiscsaltwater]

Set your overflow right at your water line with your syphonn tube full and your box full but without the water overflowing into the box.

Fill your sump to the tip top with salt water.

Start your return pump, that water WILL make the overflow return to the sump.

Size is not the issue. Your return line being bigger than your supply is the issue.

 

[wiscsaltwater]

your ball valave will make up for the size issue and yes.

dont worry about the bio balls right now thats another minor issue.

 

[customcolor]

take a befor start up pic so we can see the water level in the sump.

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12318049#post12318049 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gary Majchrzak
who said the sump is too small?
How would anyone know that?

in that picture there's not enough water in the sump. The pump should be fully submerged.
Bioballs take up practically NO sump capacity. Removing them will not result in any more sump room.

Gary I was looking at it from the review that the trickle filter itself was slowing down the return flow which could possible explain the low sump volume

If he adds more water to the system without adjusting the pump flow will that not cause a flood.

 

[cyacop]

will do

 

[seanb1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12318049#post12318049 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gary Majchrzak
who said the sump is too small?
How would anyone know that?

if it wont hold enough water and empties out trying to maintain circulation, then its too small.

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12318649#post12318649 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by seanndenise1
if it wont hold enough water and empties out trying to maintain circulation, then its too small.

IMO that's not a given, the return pump could be too big and with the limiting factor of return being the diameter of the return lines, that could result in the sump being drained faster then the water is returned to it

this is why I suggested a simpler system, just sump/proteinskimmer, return pump, ball valve, and overflow--for now--and when the system has been running properly he could add back the fluval and run carbon in it

 

[wiscsaltwater]

if it wont hold enough water and empties out trying to maintain circulation, then its too small.

What are you talking about? the idea of a refugium/sump is that whatever is pumped into the tank ultimately returns through the overflow at the same rate, it has NOTHING to do with the size of the sump, unless you start with your water level an inch below your overflow box there is no way your sump will run out of water, the ONLY way that can happen is.

1. your return pump is pumping faster than the volume your overflow can return to the tank. a ball valve on the pump should solve this problem.

2. the wet/dry is slowing the flow to the pump, however, you still should be able to compensate for this with a ball valve on the pump.

Volume of the sump is not a relative factor if your tank level in relation to your overflow box is set right when you start.

 

[wiscsaltwater]

capnhylnir has a good idea, take the media out of the filter and just get it running correctly right now, you can add that back later.

dont get worried and go spend money on a bigger sump right now, this one will work fine, your just new at it, I was in the same boat and still am to a degree, youll get it working and everything will work out.

 

[seanb1]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12318743#post12318743 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wiscsaltwater
What are you talking about? the idea of a refugium/sump is that whatever is pumped into the tank ultimately returns through the overflow at the same rate, it has NOTHING to do with the size of the sump, unless you start with your water level an inch below your overflow box there is no way your sump will run out of water, the ONLY way that can happen is.

1. your return pump is pumping faster than the volume your overflow can return to the tank. a ball valve on the pump should solve this problem.

2. the wet/dry is slowing the flow to the pump, however, you still should be able to compensate for this with a ball valve on the pump.

Volume of the sump is not a relative factor if your tank level in relation to your overflow box is set right when you start.

bologna

your sump must hold enough water to fill the tank to the point of making the overflow work.

try to use a 1 gallon jug to run a overflow system, it does not have enough water to fill the tank to start the overflow, is that really that hard for you to understand?.

theres not enough water.