Why SPS Masters, Experts, Gurus don't use LED's as their main light sources?

[elblond]

I really want to know about successful SPS tanks that have LED's as main source of lighting. Not just a month, not in combo(MH's, T-5's, LED's) just LED's,
outstanding growth and colors.

 

[Acronic]

It may still be early. I feel that most are only considering the switch recently.

 

[rqc]

okay.

 

[dzhuo]

Not just a month, not in combo(MH's, T-5's, LED's) just LED's,
outstanding growth and colors.

This sort of question is pretty useless in itself because the ability of maintain and grow SPS is not depending on lighting alone as a singular factor. If you see a tank with beautiful SPS with LED, it only means the tank provides the necessary environment for the corals and lighting is only one aspect of the environment. If you see a tank with LED and all the SPS are crapy looking with brown coloration and no grow, it only mean the environment isn't right. It might not have anything to do with LED's ability to provide enough light.

Lighting largely comes down to PAR and spectrum. Which one of these 2 lighting qualities do you think LED is incapable of producing? If your answer is no to both then there is no reason to question LED's ability to grow SPS.

Nearly any modern lights (MH, T5, and LED) will and can grow colorful SPS. It's providing the whole package of an ideal environment that's hard.

 

[njreefermadness]

I have what many of my club members consider to be a highly successful SPS tank.

I made the switch to LEDs from 250 Watt SE Radiums w/ 2 X 160 watt VHO actinics as of February of this year. I have seen no down side thus far, growth is good and colors are just as they were under my prior lighting regimen.

I am running 6 AI Super Sol Blues over my 180 as it's sole light source.

My tank includes the following:

setosa
ORA Plum Crazy
ORA Pearlberry
Green Slimer, which still grows like a weed
Red planet
Various blue and blue green A. Tenius
Garf Bonzai
Reef Ready Grapejuice
A. Turaki
Various Millis
Purple/green and orange Cap
Shades of fall
Blue slimer
superman
Pink Lemonade
Bali Tricolor
Purlple Plasma
ORA Hawkins echinata
Other unnamed echinata

All of the above are doing great, w/ great color.

The only one I have a bit of difficulty w/ is the Pink Lemonade. This never grew well even under my MH, and this may be due to a shading issue w/ my huge green slimer, which I am in the process of selling off.

I have only had the AIs for 8 months but so far so good. Most of my MH equipment has been sold off, so I am in it for the long hall.

Herb

 

[lolgranny]

Ive had this same question as i see most "sps masters" still sticking with Halide+t5/ VHO combos. Most should understand as Dzhuo said that its not all about lights, but i still wonder WHY they havent / dont swap. Sure its a dump in $ right off the bat, but in a few years it will pay off. So im still left with the question as you are, WHY no switch whats their reasoning?

Im still in the air weather i want LEDs on my 180 or to stick with my initial thought of a MH + VHO combo

 

[lolgranny]

@NJREEFERMADNESS, mind popping up some photos? What kind of MH setup were you running before the AI swap?

 

[dzhuo]

So im still left with the question as you are, WHY no switch whats their reasoning?

Probably the same reason you don't see a huge migration to give up an Octopus / SWC skimmer for a $2K BK skimmer. The marginal gain would not justify the substantial cost.

 

[elblond]

This sort of question is pretty useless in itself because the ability of maintain and grow SPS is not depending on lighting alone as a singular factor.

Sorry bro, maybe you don't understand , I know that to keep SPS successfully there're a group of vital and important factors, including lighting. But my question is directly to the lighting factor, just the lights(LED's).
This thread not only helps me, it's important to the whole SPS reefers community.
If someone have a progress journal and pictures of your success, please share it with us!

 

[lolgranny]

Probably the same reason you don't see a huge migration to give up an Octopus / SWC skimmer for a $2K BK skimmer. The marginal gain would not justify the substantial cost.

I could see that, but most are spending a good 600$+ a year on just bulbs Not to mention chillers / electricity bills. Im going with a 180g mind you. You figure if they change their radiums 2x's a year + supp lighting they are close to it. I dont see a huge change in corals growth and coloration. Yea some might shift, fade, or brighten and we have seen tanks with great growth using LEDs. So if its solely about $ then we all should go LEDs correct?

 

[dzhuo]

You figure if they change their radiums 2x's a year + supp lighting they are close to it.

I am not really sure about anyone else but I don't change my Radium 2x a year. If the Radium is driven correctly, it will easily last a year. I also don't use a chiller as well even knowing my tank's temp swings between 79F to 86F daily. Having said that, lighting is going to be different from reefer to reefer so I can't justify all lighting set ups with my own. The other story of the LED saving long term is also blown out of proportion. The initial cost of a quality set up will probably be pay off in a 3 to 5 years for most people but let's be real: Very few people have the dedication and skill to keep a tank (especially SPS) this long continuously to recoup the saving. Another possibility is similar to skimmer. Lighting is continuously changing (all the time), I really don't see lots of people dropping $2K to $3K on a lighting set up just to have a newer one come up 6 months later.

Having said that, I can't conclusively say why there aren't more people switch over to LED. I don't switch over because I don't have the need and there is no clear advantage to me with LED over my current MH setup.

 

[lolgranny]

I am not really sure about anyone else but I don't change my Radium 2x a year. If the Radium is driven correctly, it will easily last a year. I also don't use a chiller as well even knowing my tank's temp swings between 79F to 86F daily. Having said that, lighting is going to be different from reefer to reefer so I can't justify all lighting set ups with my own. The other story of the LED saving long term is also blown out of proportion. The initial cost of a quality set up will probably be pay off in a 3 to 5 years for most people but let's be real: Very few people have the dedication and skill to keep a tank (especially SPS) this long continuously to recoup the saving. Another possibility is similar to skimmer. Lighting is continuously changing (all the time), I really don't see lots of people dropping $2K to $3K on a lighting set up just to have a newer one come up 6 months later.

Having said that, I can't conclusively say why there aren't more people switch over to LED. I don't switch over because I don't have the need and there is no clear advantage to me with LED over my current MH setup.

Your running your Radiums over a year? I was going with every 8 months on the radium why i said 2x's a year. It would have been better going with that #, but i was rounding. Im on the debate at what i should do on my 180 truthfully. I have My M80 ballasts / Lumenarc minis, just need bulbs / VHO supps and im in. Its in the basement so i most likely wont need a chiller, but some on the club forums are trying to turn me into LEDs. I can do a DIY one for roughly 2k and savings would be seen quite fast. My thoughts are i know my coloration in my tank is very good with MH and i dont mind swapping bulbs. What i dont want is to go LED and say meh i dont care for this that much. Its newer and alot of people are hopping on the bandwagon, i just dont know if im set on it yet. I couldnt agree more with you on the advantage with LEDs over MH thats why im stuck.

 

[gofor100]

If anyone has two tanks of similar size and some money to spend, why don't they put this debate to rest and set up two tanks side by side (running off of the same sump), using all of the same equipment EXCEPT lighting (you could even go as far as putting a wall in between the two tanks to make sure the light doesn't flood into the other tank).

Then the environment would be exactly the same (or as close as you could get two separate tanks), and the only variable would be the lighting.

Kind of hard to believe this hasn't been done before to be honest (or if it has, that someone hasn't shared their experience).

So who wants to give this a go?!?!?!

-Chad

 

[lolgranny]

If anyone has two tanks of similar size and some money to spend, why don't they put this debate to rest and set up two tanks side by side (running off of the same sump), using all of the same equipment EXCEPT lighting (you could even go as far as putting a wall in between the two tanks to make sure the light doesn't flood into the other tank).

Then the environment would be exactly the same (or as close as you could get two separate tanks), and the only variable would be the lighting.

Kind of hard to believe this hasn't been done before to be honest (or if it has, that someone hasn't shared their experience).

So who wants to give this a go?!?!?!

-Chad

I would LOVE seeing this! DO IT! googogogogoogogogogooooooooooo

 

[Everyones Hero]

I think there are probably a few reasons the "masters" aren't switching.

#1 IMO is probably because of the old mantra "If it isn't broken don't fix it." Metal Halides & T5s are tested & proven lighting methods. People invest a lot of money into their tanks, including hundreds (and for some thousands) of dollars into livestock. That's a lot of money, not to mention for some the sentimental value of their corals, to risk on what I would still consider new technology.

 

[edsreef]

I think there are probably a few reasons the "masters" aren't switching.

#1 IMO is probably because of the old mantra "If it isn't broken don't fix it." Metal Halides & T5s are tested & proven lighting methods. People invest a lot of money into their tanks, including hundreds (and for some thousands) of dollars into livestock. That's a lot of money, not to mention for some the sentimental value of their corals, to risk on what I would still consider new technology.

Yep. That was what I was going to say in so many words. It's the un-needed element of risk involved and the potential to cause instability in an already thriving system.
If I had a TOTM type tank already running on MH I'd probably not want to risk it.
But as it turns out, I've started up a new tank, close to a year ago, and have started that one out with LED lighting. My frags are colorful and some are growing into small colonies now and I have another order of frags on the way that will need grown out before it begins to be something worthy of showing off.

 

[lolgranny]

Yep. That was what I was going to say in so many words. It's the un-needed element of risk involved and the potential to cause instability in an already thriving system.
If I had a TOTM type tank already running on MH I'd probably not want to risk it.
But as it turns out, I've started up a new tank, close to a year ago, and have started that one out with LED lighting. My frags are colorful and some are growing into small colonies now and I have another order of frags on the way that will need grown out before it begins to be something worthy of showing off.

Very cool bud, i wish them the best of luck! What type of fixture did you go with if i might ask?

EDIT: I guess i should read sig more often. Ive been looking at the DIY reefledlights fixture

 

[gasman059]

I think there are probably a few reasons the "masters" aren't switching.

#1 IMO is probably because of the old mantra "If it isn't broken don't fix it." Metal Halides & T5s are tested & proven lighting methods. People invest a lot of money into their tanks, including hundreds (and for some thousands) of dollars into livestock. That's a lot of money, not to mention for some the sentimental value of their corals, to risk on what I would still consider new technology.

Been there done that- with a stable tank and from scratch and the answer IME is a simple lack of what I like in terms of color.

After a while( YEARS) acro coloration as u are used to having lacks with LED, and you have limited amount of light loving acro placements.

Just my two cents not the absolute truth- at least mine.:wavehand:

 

[lolgranny]

Been there done that- with a stable tank and from scratch and the answer IME is a simple lack of what I like in terms of color.

After a while( YEARS) acro coloration as u are used to having lacks with LED, and you have limited amount of light loving acro placements.

Just my two cents not the absolute truth- at least mine.:wavehand:

Thanks for the input, these are the type of things ive been looking for. I know there will be a change in the "normal" coloration from what we are use to because its a different set of lighting. What one do you prefer yourself?

 

[JaneG]

I think it's most likely because of the extremely high start up cost for LEDs- and like others have said, other forms of lighting have been used longer, so some might consider those a "safer" option. At the same time, I think LEDs get a bad rep for SPS coral coloration because of the use of Cool White LEDs in commercial fixtures, which usually gives off very poor color rendering (due to lack of light in the orange-red spectrum- this might even have an effect on coral coloration, but who knows). :strange: This can easily be fixed by using neutral white LEDs- I just don't know why most commercial fixture manufacturers haven't figured this out yet. At the same time, it has been proven that LEDs can grow SPS corals quickly (even if using Cool White)- but, again, many/some complain of lackluster colors. However, here's a reef tank from Japan (owned by "ごっさん") that uses LED lighting and has been for over a year (according to him). The results prove to me at least, that LEDs (when done properly) are more than capable of growing colorful SPS.