Why SPS Masters, Experts, Gurus don't use LED's as their main light sources?

[curthendrix]

I anticipate we will start to see many LFS and commercial frag farmers begin to switch to LEDs due to their operational cost savings...both wattage and cooling.

 

[roberto_lopes]

The cost is the main cause.

But they will....

 

[MammothReefer]

I can't speak for masters, but this SPS flunkie is torn. I would get more coverage and better lighting in terms of par w/led, as I'm only running 1 halide fixture over my 36 x 24 tank. In conjuction with 6 t5s (4 36", + 2 24") . I'm thinking of giving the AI Sols a go, but in conjunction w/my t5s (well I'd cut down to 4 t5s, and 2 AI Sols). I'm hoping that the missing colours will get made up by t5s, and me having 2 pendants running at a total of approx 150w (if I ran it full blast) will give me better coverage then the 1 pendant running @ 300w (1 250w halide and 2x24w t5s).

So that would save me 150w for 8 hours a day, and in conjunction with some other things I'm doing I should be able to save about 250w, (and if I can remember turn off my computers and lights in the house who knows). Unfortunately the heat issues isn't an issue for me as the halide actually heats my house in the winter which means less time w/the heaters on both tank and propane house heater).. So the saving may not be as much for me during the winter months. However if I can get down to the lower usage tier for electricity my bill would be cut in half.

..but even with that said. My lighting works for the most part in my current tank. So I'm not sure if it's worth the 800$ to switch it, or just spend the 200$ to replace my bulbs this year (it's about that time.)

 

[clayspst]

i run only 72 creed diy leds and have almost the coral list as reefermadness, leds have been up since 15jun. great results

I have what many of my club members consider to be a highly successful SPS tank.

I made the switch to LEDs from 250 Watt SE Radiums w/ 2 X 160 watt VHO actinics as of February of this year. I have seen no down side thus far, growth is good and colors are just as they were under my prior lighting regimen.

I am running 6 AI Super Sol Blues over my 180 as it's sole light source.

My tank includes the following:

setosa
ORA Plum Crazy
ORA Pearlberry
Green Slimer, which still grows like a weed
Red planet
Various blue and blue green A. Tenius
Garf Bonzai
Reef Ready Grapejuice
A. Turaki
Various Millis
Purple/green and orange Cap
Shades of fall
Blue slimer
superman
Pink Lemonade
Bali Tricolor
Purlple Plasma
ORA Hawkins echinata
Other unnamed echinata

All of the above are doing great, w/ great color.

The only one I have a bit of difficulty w/ is the Pink Lemonade. This never grew well even under my MH, and this may be due to a shading issue w/ my huge green slimer, which I am in the process of selling off.

I have only had the AIs for 8 months but so far so good. Most of my MH equipment has been sold off, so I am in it for the long hall.

Herb

 

[lolgranny]

i run only 72 creed diy leds and have almost the coral list as reefermadness, leds have been up since 15jun. great results

Any photos? I wouldnt mind checking it out

 

[power boat jim]

Let me put some of your minds at ease, I switched to LEDs from MH about 4 months ago.Since that time all colors of my acro have gotten MUCH more vivid. I had to put some T5 blue fiji bulbs in to pop the red but its there . As far as growth goes, it is every bit as fast under the LED as the MH. I did not kill any coral with the LED change over. Some faded out but are since returning to a new color. You must acclimate new coral slowly if they dont come from an LED lit tank, especially small frags.

I have over 30 different colonies in my 180. Yes I took a chance, but the change in environment LEDs make is not substantial enought to crash a tank IF YOU FOLLOW SIMPLE GUIDELINES. I have one pic in my gallery of the tank under LED sorry its not better. I will work on it.

 

[blakers82]

Let me put some of your minds at ease, I switched to LEDs from MH about 4 months ago.Since that time all colors of my acro have gotten MUCH more vivid. I had to put some T5 blue fiji bulbs in to pop the red but its there . As far as growth goes, it is every bit as fast under the LED as the MH. I did not kill any coral with the LED change over. Some faded out but are since returning to a new color. You must acclimate new coral slowly if they dont come from an LED lit tank, especially small frags.

I have over 30 different colonies in my 180. Yes I took a chance, but the change in environment LEDs make is not substantial enought to crash a tank IF YOU FOLLOW SIMPLE GUIDELINES. I have one pic in my gallery of the tank under LED sorry its not better. I will work on it.

Could you share what guidelines you have used in your LED acclimation process?

 

[power boat jim]

Sure, What I did as well as alot of other people (at least ones with the AI lights) is to start the lights at no more then 30-35 percent and turn them up only a few percent a week until you get into the 70-80 percent range. There are some who run higher but I found the 70 percent range to be more then enough. You can vary the 3 colors to attain the "look" you like in the tank. Mine maxes out at 60% white 75% blue and 70% royal blue.

The acclimation process can be varied a bit, I started at a higher percentage (40-45) since I was running 3x 400w MH. The less intense light you start with the lower you should start the LEDs percentage. If you add new frags to the tank, the best place to put them is on the bottom or off to the side for a few weeks. It seems the smaller the frag the lower it needs to go. I learned this the hard way. I have yet to get any frags from an LED tank and put them in mine so I dont know yet how well they transfer. I do know going from T5 or MH into LEDs seams to take a bit longer to acclimate. They do however take hold and do fine.

Again, these are guidelines that have worked for me and others, there are probably several varations of this out there. you need to keep an eye on you coral when you make the switch. If many corals show signs of fading- lower the percentage or slow down the ramp up times. If all the coral look good but 1 or 2 place them lower in the tank or not in the direct light. You do have to pay attention during the first few weeks, if you want to plug in the lights and forget about it, dont make the switch, but there is no reason to think changing to LEDs is a meltdown waiting to happen.

I believe ANYONE who is careful enough to keep a successful reef tank, especially an SPS system could make the switch if they put in the effort and attention required to run LEDs.

 

[psusocr]

I see alot of "masters" running LEDS that made the switch from MH and their tanks never looked better. Their out there if you look.

 

[Allmost]

no master here ... but the main reason for "masters" not switching yet, is cause the technology is new, and we are still using old LEDs, [cause they need to sell !!] before moving onto the new ones


Sanjay had an article on coral magazine[great article in general], stating that Photon is a Photon, doesnt matter the source. Which is just wrong ! alot of things effect a given Photon ! electric field, magnatic field, electromagnetic field of propagation[for penetration and energy transfer], and alot of intensity and wavelength parameters. studying in a biophotonic lab working on OCT systems has shown me how "wrong" some of the LED lights out there are today ! and if anyone wants to measure they LEDs spectrum, there are easy ways to do so at home

wait a while, see the LEDs that would come out, I know guys down at TSMC are already working on it and as with everything cost will be much more justifiable in some time. I dont know how long though, 6 months, or 2 years ...

 

[power boat jim]

no master here ... but the main reason for "masters" not switching yet, is cause the technology is new, and we are still using old LEDs, [cause they need to sell !!] before moving onto the new ones


Sanjay had an article on coral magazine[great article in general], stating that Photon is a Photon, doesnt matter the source. Which is just wrong ! alot of things effect a given Photon ! electric field, magnatic field, electromagnetic field of propagation[for penetration and energy transfer], and alot of intensity and wavelength parameters. studying in a biophotonic lab working on OCT systems has shown me how "wrong" some of the LED lights out there are today ! and if anyone wants to measure they LEDs spectrum, there are easy ways to do so at home

wait a while, see the LEDs that would come out, I know guys down at TSMC are already working on it and as with everything cost will be much more justifiable in some time. I dont know how long though, 6 months, or 2 years ...

If you have LEDs that put out a 6700K spike on the white 10000K on blue and 20000K on Royal blue how is that the wrong spectrum? and what spectrum do you want a bulb to produce? Also how do you measure the spectrum at home?

 

[TandN]

I just set up a 60g cube from a downgrade from my 180g. The 180g had a crash and I lost just about everything. Saved a couple of garf p.bonsai frags and a couple of pink lemonade frags all browned out. The 60g is up and running 2 1/2 weeks now wi th LED's and the colors are coming back one of the purple bonsais look amazing already and there growth showing as well VERY happy with them so far they been amazing. I in the hobby about 12 years been with sps since the beginning when it was a brown digita and orange caps lol used all types of lighting there has been

 

[chrishayes]

Ive weighed in on another similar thread so no reason to do so again. I cant believe im saying this but I agree with Allmost! lol

Also, power boat jim, glad the switch has worked for you. Did you sell off all your halide gear?

 

[power boat jim]

Ive weighed in on another similar thread so no reason to do so again. I cant believe im saying this but I agree with Allmost! lol

Also, power boat jim, glad the switch has worked for you. Did you sell off all your halide gear?

No, I still have it. using one over the sump and two are taking up space on a shelf.

 

[miwoodar]

wait a while, see the LEDs that would come out, I know guys down at TSMC are already working on it and as with everything cost will be much more justifiable in some time. I dont know how long though, 6 months, or 2 years ...

Assuming DIY, why not just make the jump then adjust color as needed later? Once everything is wired up and running, swapping out some stars for newer versions should be relatively cheap and easy, no?

I'm getting ready to make the jump and my break even point is nine months after incorporating electrical savings, bulb replacement savings, and the dumping of my current system. I can pretty easily invest that extra money into tweaking my color mix and still come out ahead.

 

[Allmost]

If you have LEDs that put out a 6700K spike on the white 10000K on blue and 20000K on Royal blue how is that the wrong spectrum? and what spectrum do you want a bulb to produce? Also how do you measure the spectrum at home?

those are color temps

Michelson interferometer.

 

[Allmost]

Assuming DIY, why not just make the jump then adjust color as needed later? Once everything is wired up and running, swapping out some stars for newer versions should be relatively cheap and easy, no?

I'm getting ready to make the jump and my break even point is nine months after incorporating electrical savings, bulb replacement savings, and the dumping of my current system. I can pretty easily invest that extra money into tweaking my color mix and still come out ahead.

your post makes sense ... but what will you and your SPS do meanwhile while you can not get the parameters of lighting [not only spectrum as I said above] right ?

but yea, nothing wrong with wiring a board and getting ready

 

[power boat jim]

those are color temps

Michelson interferometer.

What is the difference between temp and spectrum?

 

[chrishayes]

Ive never and will never bash LED's, its just not their time yet. Thats why "masters" havent switched. Risk vs reward says something that changes every 2 weeks isnt stable. Too much risk and instability out there without adding "up and coming" technology to your passion. Ill say it a thousand times "LED's ARE THE FUTURE OF LIGHTING" period. I think once the folks that put these fixtures out every 3rd weekend of the month realize that they are asking too much from commercially available LED's that are designed to light the endcap of a shoestore and arent designed to grow coral, they will go to the drawing board with one of the main players in the industry and design photosynthetic based chips, theyll corner the freakin market and not have to repackage the same crap over and over again aside from overdriving chips lowering their efficiency and life. That flys in the face of the claims that make LED lighting so desirable. Currently, LED repackagers(I refuse to call them manufacturers) are playing with your wallet much like Intel did through the 00's with "devaluing your purchase when you drive it off the lot" marketing. I hate it. Thats why I will stick with my MH fixture running a radium bulb desinged and manufactured for the sole purpose of growing coral! grrr sorry.

 

[ReefBum]

I think there are probably a few reasons the "masters" aren't switching.

#1 IMO is probably because of the old mantra "If it isn't broken don't fix it." Metal Halides & T5s are tested & proven lighting methods. People invest a lot of money into their tanks, including hundreds (and for some thousands) of dollars into livestock. That's a lot of money, not to mention for some the sentimental value of their corals, to risk on what I would still consider new technology.

Well said.