Wonder how high this one will go?

[Crusty Old Shellback]

So are you getting out to ride some between rains?

I too have to agree with what has been said here by all of you. It does sadden me to see people put a name on a coral just for profit.

I have some really nice zoo's but have not taken any pic's to add to the zoaid site as of yet. One reason is I don't want to be bombarded with emails or PM's for them. The second is I don't really care if they are named or not, I just enjoy them in my tank.

And yes I have posted some on here before with a name on them and got bombarded with PM's to trade. Worst part was they came to me for a trade and then wanted me to pay for shipping both ways for their coral AND my zoo's. I told them I guess your superman dane is worth a whole lot more to you then than it is to me and passed.

I don't mind trading my zoo's with other liked minded people. One for one is all I have ever asked.

 

[smp]

You guys know what?
I've been emailing back and forth with this guy and he's not a bad guy at all. I retract what I said about him because he did come off as an @#$!#@ at first, but I'm sure I did as well when I first sent him a message.

No rides between rain for me. I learned in the winter of 04/05 what race tires mean on cold hard asphalt
Not fun.

 

[whodah]

nice smp!

i don't know you nor doctor, but i do know it takes a lot to say something like that - especially on a public forum.

kudos!

 

[whodah]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6640882#post6640882 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CoralNutz
IMO, I think zoaid is getting popular enough that it should really decide if it's main goal is for "fun" or if it really wants to live up to the statement "The Difinitive Repository for Named Zoanthids". IMO that's a pretty bold statement considing anyone can take a pic of their zoas, they could photoshop them, juice them up with 20K's or whwatever and then submit them to you and they will be on there in a day or two.

interesting perspective, hadn't seriously considered it like that... that title was 1/2 way in jest. i could change it to say 'self proclaimed' in front, heh! but point well made!

the requirement of a flash shot is interesting...

lastly - no worries on taking offence to yer statements. none taken at all! i know they're not personal.

 

[diddye]

in the end, you can't really blame the buyers if they're willing to pay that much. if they're rich and stupid enough to get it, hey more power to them. Sometimes the availability of corals are so low that ebay is the only thing they can turn to especially if they live in a small city. If anything, you can try to make your own money and sell your zoos and in turn, drive down the market by flooding it.

 

[smp]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6644226#post6644226 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by diddye
in the end, you can't really blame the buyers if they're willing to pay that much. if they're rich and stupid enough to get it, hey more power to them.

This is exactly why I felt bad for saying anything to him in the first place.

Sometimes the availability of corals are so low that ebay is the only thing they can turn to especially if they live in a small city.

He described how much he was paying for corals and the practices of his local club (which he says he started) and I felt bad. If you live in the boons and have no access to stores or other hobbyists I'm sure you would end up paying a lot for corals.

Bottom line, he posted stuff online, I explained why I didn't like his 'marketting' tactics and that was that. If people are willing to pay high prices that's their choice.

 

[Zoalander]

I think the guy is a genius. The people that are bidding on these deserve what they get, he's not doing anything illegal. The only way to bring these prices down is for all of us to do the same thing he's doing. We shouldn't be mad at him, we should be mad at the grown adults who are bidding.

 

[Azurel]

There is nothing wrong with naming unique color morph of zoas or any other coral for the purpose of differentiating it from others and to make ease of identification to others that are looking for them. I mean is a superman Monte really a superman? They named it that because of the colors in line with superman's outfit. Is Purple people eaters really purple people eaters? NO...but when you looking for a specific color morph it is much easier to say PPE, G.I.Joes as opposed to those purple ones or those red ones or green ones ect.....If it is done for the sole purpose of trying to make it a fade and be able to sell them at exuberant prices then there maybe an issue, but just to name them so we all can differentiate them form other color morphs is fine. How would you describe eagle eyes to someone without having the name? It's a little more difficult, where as you can just say trade me some eagle eyes for your PHE. I don't think there should be names for everyone because some are just so similar, but those that are unique like PHE, PPE's ect.... why not have a name? It don't hurt anything and I don't think Zoaid.com can really be used to up somebodies prices because the purpose of the site is to show and give example to the name of the color morph not to establish the rarity of such zoa. You would still pay high prices for PHE,PPE if Zoaid.com was around or not and some of these others that go for high prices would still go for high prices irregardless of Zoaid.com.

Just my .02

 

[smp]

I don't buy zoos unless I see them in person. No 'description' required. I buy what I think looks good and then I enjoy it in my tank for the same reason.

 

[surfnvb7]

I knew this would happen when this particular topic emerged quite a while ago, and there was lengthy discussion with whoda about it. then adding that "super zoa" section was just throwing fuel on the fire, just asking for people to capitalize on that.

i dunno, this used to be all for "fun", but obviously people are taking advantage of it now. so i'm gonna have to say name it what you want, buy it for what you want...

but seriously, if you aren't helping the situation you are part of the problem (not directed solely at you whoda).

i can already tell you i know of a LFS that sold a certain zoa for a certain price last year, and now that zoaid has gone up and people from that LFS look on here, they have used it to inflate the price about 200% by slapping a label on it.

yes...this is good ole captatilism at its finest, and theres not much you can do about it other than not supporting the practice.

i for one, wish zoaID would at least revamp the site to make it less succeptable to people trying to place a market value on namming zoas, which......even though unintentional, zoaID is fueling the fire for.

Azurel........in response to your "superman monti" comment. the superman monti was a specific STRAIN, that started from a specific person, and was not meant to be anything other than from that particular strain. then "look-a-likes" flooded the market, the price drove up, and now most people dont even know the difference b/w what the REAL superman monti looks like and all the infamous fakes out there with brown/maroon polyps and an off-blue base. The same can be said about the "safecracker zoas" IMO.

this whole naming thing has gotten way out of hand, and i for one will no longer support it, or the practice of it by buying any.

do we really want named zoas to be the next "craze"? like the rics of a year and a half ago? and the acans of last year? these crazes kill the hobby by making it a capitalist venture.

 

[dc_909]

If you are dumb enough to buy the "hype" given to a coral by it's name instead of buying it because you enjoy the piece. then you its your own fault. If it's worth $360 to you, then go for it.

I only buy what I see in person.

 

[Azurel]

That's partially my point, the name does not dictate the rarity of a specific color morph with in the hobby but describes the color of it only. There is no one here that can not tell me that an actual PPE isn't unique with in the hobby. Does this mean its rare in the wild no, but the name describes a zoa that is unique on to itself. Just like some others that are named and described and traded everyday. The name has nothing to do with what it should cost or what a price should be. The problem is that people have put to much weight on the name as it pertains to value or price. 2 months ago I bought a colony of eagle eyes that had around 120 polyps on it for $35, they knew what the color morph was called but is still just a zoa and they didn't raise the price because it was a named morph. If your LFS does then they have issues some of these color morphs are quite unique to the hobby and you will pay more for them with Zoaid.com out there or a name applied to them or not because some of these are in high demand and don't think for one minute that LFS, traders don't know it if they know the name or not. THis hobby is a capitalist venture wither we like it or not somebody is going to sell and buy with or with out a name placed on the coral. If an online place or LFS has never seen a specfic color or they know that it is unusall with in the market there will be a higher price paid for it.........Thats why with zoas it is much better to trade and be fair about trading and selling with in our community then allowing the LFS and on-line vendors to dictate the price or the value because said coral has a name on it. As far a ebay goes that really shouln'd dictate the price of anything, it is an auction which the price is based on what one person is willing to buy a said coral for. If someone buys a PPE for $1000 does that mean that the PPE is now worth that much no, it's just that one person was willing to spend that much to get it. Very few LFS and on-line vendors have all of there zoa coloies the same price because the price is going to be dictated but size and color. I have not seen one place that all of the colonies are the same price no matter what size,color ect...Thats not to say they are not out there but I have never personaly seen one.

 

[whodah]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6645571#post6645571 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by surfnvb7
then adding that "super zoa" section was just throwing fuel on the fire, just asking for people to capitalize on that.

can you please elaborate on what you mean by "super zoa" section?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6645571#post6645571 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by surfnvb7
i for one, wish zoaID would at least revamp the site to make it less succeptable to people trying to place a market value on namming zoas, which......even though unintentional, zoaID is fueling the fire for.

i'm always open to suggestions, simple or extensive! have anything particular in mind?

 

[tekknoschtev]

While it sort of makes me mad, I beleive its somewhat out of jealousy. If I felt morally ok with selling a frag pack of my zoas for $350+, I can tell you in a heart beat I'd do it! Who in their right mind would turn down an easy $350? But I have this theory that for the most part, I havent spent a fortune on my zoas, and I can pass that along. Case and point - I have sold MANY frags of my yellow-skirted green-centered zoas. I paid $50 for about 70-100 polyps, and I sell it generally about $10 for 20-30 polyps. I have easily paid for the colony in frags, and on top of that, the colony is 2-3 times as large as it was when I bought it. In my mind, it works out. On paper (after playing with numbers) the colony was free, and has grown considerably. While I could probably get $1-$1.50 per polyp, it doesnt make sense to me ethically to do it.

And I also agree that if you are buying a coral due to a name, and not its relative appearance in your tank, you deserve to spend a high price. In this capitalist world, thats the only fair way to look at it. I do disagree with using zoaID to drive the price up, however, we live in a society of "buyer be ware" and truth be told, if you think that people will like your tank more because you have "safecracker" zoas, or "PPEs" then by all means, shell out the bucks. I buy corals based on color and appearance - plain and simple.

 

[CoralNutz]

Wow, I sure didn't think this thread would ever make it to a page two :lol:

I just want to clarify, I never said this guy was a "bad" guy. Just something I seen and found amusing. Sure it's good marketing, but anyone with an ethical bone in thier body has to admit it's a tad on the shady side. I mean the guy makes a point in huge red letters to tell people the are now "Super Zoo" status because they were "just listed" on zoaid.

I can agree with Steve. If I put 23 polyps for auction on Ebay and the bid went up to $360 I certainly wouldn't turn the money down. But I think using the zoaid site in an attempt to up the price is real shady.

(No offense to you Whodah )
If I ran a website and seen that someone did that, listed a coral one day prior so he could use it in his ebay auction to elevate his zoa status to a "Super Zoo" I think I would have pulled the pics from my site just on principle. It personally would make me feel like I was being used to make this guy a bunch of $$$.

 

[RevHtree]

I think if someone wants to sell them at a high price, and someone is willing to buy them, then buy all means do so. If you dont want to buy them, dont.

Not trying to be rude, but what do you all do for a living? Do you like to get paid? If you could make more money would you?

Just some things to think about, and dont jump on the preacher...

 

[RevHtree]

PS. I love zoaid.com and will be submitting more pics soon!! I think that naming these beautiful zoas is fun, and I like to know that I had a hand in it.

I know most of you like zoaid.com and I know what your saying about people using it for profit. There is a fine line there though.

 

[CoralNutz]

RevHtree, your kind of condradicting yourself.... The issue isn't selling zoas on ebay and getting lots of money. The issue IS using zoaid to up the price, which IMO is an unethical thing to do. So your first post there your saying hey we all like to make money, then your second post your say "There is a fine line there though".... So I am not saying that people shouldn't make money. I think there is an ethical way to make money, and then of course, this other way.

Wow, are you really a pastor? If so, I can't believe you would condone such unethical behavior.

If I have a car to sell and it's a ford escort. And I list it as a super rare exotic luxury machine. And sure most people are smart enough to know better. But I keep it listed that way and wait for some sucker that doesn't know any better to buy it for 4x market value. Would that be OK too? Just because some sucker is willing to pay me 4x the money, does that make it ok that I decieved people to get the money? IMO, that guy is trying to decieve people into thinking those are some super rare gems of the sea. IMO, the only possible way this guy is acting ethically and responsibly is if he honestly believes they are "Super Zoo"s. If not he's clearly trying to decieve someone that doesn't know any better. IMO, the latter is the case here.

 

[RevHtree]

I was condoning capitalism-An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.

Cars and Zoas are alot different. Thats like comparing Apples to Oranges. You can't. Cars have a market and set values basically. This naming zoas is fairly new and no one really knows what the market for them are. Just because you wouldnt pay a certain amount for them, or just beacuse you have seen them cheaper doesnt make it law.

I understand what you are saying about using decietful ways to drive the prices up and thats not good, but if its listed and the cost goes up due to the demand, thats another thing.

I wasnt condoning ripping people off by use of zoaid.com. Maybe I missed the initial point you all were making. I do not condone deciet.

And yes I am a pastor/human.....why does everyone bring that up when what i say goes against what they believe. Maybe it was a mix up. Trust me I am a good and honest man, and a good Pastor as well.

Thanks.

 

[manoverboard]

I think zoaid is a great resourse it gives us the ability to quickly identify the zoas that we trade and talk about.It should also help clear up 20k and (god forbid) photoshoped zoa trading,although some of the zoaid pics look(whisper) shopped.I agree that some of the zoas on this website are double posted under different names that really saddens me because it defeates the purpose for the website .to clear up the zoas we are talking about.As for the price hype its ,in my opinion ,not the fault of zoaid.Im glad someone has taken the time to try to help zoa collectors identify new zoas.I wish zoaid would post pics of these zoas under different lighting though it would help clear up some of those 20k pics.AS for the super zoa section this is the opinion of the propriter of zoaid and should be left to the descression of the users to be a valid resourse.