Wonder how high this one will go?

[CoralNutz]

RevHtree,

You are correct zoas are zoas and cars are cars, definately not the same thing. However deciet is deciet, and decieving people on coral purchases is no better than decieving people on car purchases.

I guess I was just posting because I thought it was amusing. My intention wasn't to start any arguing. It has however made me think about the zoanthid naming issue more though. I plan to PM whodah to ask him to remove any pictures of mine that are on that site. I do not wish to have anything to do with the zoanthid naming the way it is happening at the present time.

I really think IDing zoas is a good thing and it would be great to have a site that did that. But I think it needs to be done in a more accurate way sort of way. More of a zoanthid catalog type project, that tracked specific zoas, where they went, and also pictures of the same exact zoas in diffferent peoples tanks under different lighting.

 

[RevHtree]

I wasnt condoning ripping people off by use of zoaid.com. Maybe I missed the initial point you all were making. I do not condone deciet.

I think we are just on two different pages. I like you Coralnutz you are a very knowledgeable person and I think I have been misunderstood to a degree because when I first made my initial post, I just though we were talking about the thread title which was "Wonder How High This One Will Go." I was merely saying that if it goes high, then well and good for the seller and the buyer if he felt it was a good deal. I didnt address, in my mind, the use of Zoaid.com to jack the prices up. You are right That is WRONG.

I think deciet is wrong in any form or fashion. Please forgive me if it looked like I thought otherwise. I need to read all post before responding.

Thanks.

 

[RevHtree]

I agree with your last statement, although I am thankful for the steps that have already been made by Zoaid. I always thought it was kinda just for fun anyway, but since it is being used wrongly then maybe there is something that can be done to get things more precise. But even then it will be abused like everything else.

 

[Jovreefer]

I think the problem with this guys auction is plain and simply, he is stating his zoa's were PICKED to go on zoaid because they are amazing and rare bla bla...When in reality all he did was submit a picture to whodah with the name he picked and whodah put them up. As soon as they were up he posted his ebay auction.

There is no regulations to putting pics up right now but the avarage Jo does not know that & thinks "ohh these zoa's were picked to go on THE naming site! they must be rare I gotta have!

When in reality I think if someone were to submit "poop brown" zoas they would be put up.

 

[Azurel]

Maybe Zoaid.com should have a disclaimer about using it as a price point and that it is not the intent of the site to show rarity but just name the color morph no more no less. Maybe having a voting page where people can vote on the name or if the zoa should be posted, or it is to similar to another zoa so it shouldn't be posted.

CoralNutz,
Why have those pics removed? I understand the ideology behind your point with the eBay guy which cheapens the purpose, but what makes you think that it will change with everybody dumping on it. Especially those who have contributed to it now disparaging it and taking there zoas home because they don't wanna play any more. The right thing to do in my book is for us all to come together and find a solution that allows us to name these zoas and keep it fun, but at the same time make it so that anybody who uses the Zoaid.com site or a named zoa a selling point to increase their profit look bad not the other way around.

I really think that Whodah's site would be cheapened if you guy's have your pics removed, you guys submitted them in an honest and fun manner so don't let these other incredulous people ruin it for you and us. I'm sure there is a solution it's just a matter of finding it.
Again just my .02.

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6645913#post6645913 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Azurel
Very few LFS and on-line vendors have all of there zoa coloies the same price because the price is going to be dictated but size and color. I have not seen one place that all of the colonies are the same price no matter what size,color ect...Thats not to say they are not out there but I have never personaly seen one.

Funny you should mention that. That right there tells me they are gouging us.

I got the chance to visit a wholesalers in LA. It's one of the better know ones and they have been around for a long time importing from the south pacific. They had a rather large vat full of all colors and sizes of zoa's. Know what, the price was the same, no matter what color or size rock you got. And they had some of the NAMED zoa's in that holding tank as well.

So all of the hype is coming from us and the retailers, not the wholesalers. That means it's up to us to reverse it.

 

[CoralNutz]

Azurel,

I would like to have my pictures removed because by having them there, it indicates that I support the site and what it represents. I think the idea of the site was good intentioned, but I think it's gotten a little out of hand and I just don't want my name associated with it any longer. I guess the thing that bothers me is the statement about it being the definitave repository of name zoanthids, it's a pretty bold statement. Even if it was made in gest, uninformed people may think it is actually the end all of zoanthid naming. That ebayer is certainly hoping people will feel that way. I am sure others that do the same thing before private sales or trades feel the same.

I have brought up some concerns about the site and how there are duplicates listed as the same things, things named the same thing that are completely different species, photoshopped pix, scandolous peoples that only post there stuff on their in an attempt to make some more money. Hopefully someday there will be a zoanthid cataloging project and I would love to help out. But I just do not think I want to leave my pictures with my name attatched to them if the site is going to be used for these purposes. I understand that it wasn't whodah's intention for this stuff to go on, but I think by not doing anything and making it SO easy to get your zoanthids "published" to the "definitive repository of named zoanthids" and escelate them to "Super Zoo" status isn't helping the problem... That was the end of the line for me. So in the future I will be supporting zoanthid cataloging, but not the naming. I think it's gotten way out of hand. Like others have mentioned, people are getting way more into what the zoas are named and not so much what they look like. I see so many threads titled "What are these called" or "Do these have a name" and I think it's getting out of hand so I choose not to feed into that or support that by having my pictures of my corals with my name on them located on that site. I don't think there will be many others that want to remove thier corals. For the most part people seem pretty content with the way things are going.

 

[whodah]

heya!

there are plans in place to help address these issues - but they won't happen overnight...

CN: check yer PM and get back to me!

 

[Mr. Ugly]

Good FAQ page on ZoaID:
http://www.zoaid.com/index.php?name=FAQ&id_cat=1

Looked all over, but could not find a link for "Super Zoo". I think that was creative marketing on the part of the Ebay seller.

Whodah, you need to have an alternate site without names Main page to ZoaID can let people pick the names or no-names site

You can title the alternate site, "The Not Necessarily Definitive Repository of Numbered Zoanthids - First Come, First Served"

 

[dc_909]

Whodah;

Just keep doin' what your doin'

Good job!

 

[surfnvb7]

I agree with you CoralNutz on your opinions. I like the idea of a site dedicated to submitted pics of zoanthids, but not the naming part (which ultimately is associated with whatever your individual definition of "rare" is).

Whodah, I still think a better way is to group them by colors, then show a pic of say "Blue Zoa Variety #1", then after you click on that picture with the title, it will show a list of "alliases" it has been called by, and "look-a-like" pictures. Thus, directing the attention AWAY from the name, and onto the unique color/pattern of the zoa in question.

Very few LFS and on-line vendors have all of there zoa coloies the same price because the price is going to be dictated but size and color. I have not seen one place that all of the colonies are the same price no matter what size,color ect...Thats not to say they are not out there but I have never personaly seen one.

blown63chevy, I agree with your statement.

My 2 closest LFS's that sell zoa colonies are for a set price, as this is the way it comes from their wholesaler (from L.A. cali). Color does not matter, and size doesn't matter for the most part. I'd say each colony at the LFS avg's about 3"x3" for $35. Give or take about 1"x1" in some cases. But color does NOT matter...UNLESS you specifically ask them to order "Blue Zoas", then of course the wholesaler will charge more, b/c 1)-they can, 2)-they gota put the effort into finding a blue colony out of those giant tubs

alot of LFS's get them wholesale this way, then interpret a higher price for certain colors based on supply/demand of the area...which is very reasonable the way I see it.

and I have heard of some wholesale places that sell based on color, which ultimately means a larger price tag for the consumer so the LFS that buys from them can make a profit.

...so, it goes both ways...but odds are the wholesale places are gonna care less unless its something that they can profit BIG TIME on (i.e. blue zoas, acans etc.) which are NOT "rare" anymore. once people started calling them rare, then they send out the divers to bring more in, and then slowly trickle them into the market to make their big profits. blue zoas and acans are so easy to find now.

zoas are so common in the ocean, and in a million different color varieties, they are not gonna make huge bucks for the wholesaler to put time and money into sorting out the common ones from ALL of the so called rare ones, or ones with so called names. sorting out just "blues" is alot easier, or just "reds". thus, this is why I'd like to see the ZoaID focus on these factors FIRST, then give them whatever allias names you feel like it, I could care less. Just take the emphasis away from the naming issue.

So yes, just about all of the hype is coming from us and the retailers. And again, if you aren't helping the situation, you are part of the problem.

 

[EvilMel]

I posted one of my zoos on the ZooID website but it was only because people around town kept calling them "EvilMel's green zoos". I have given/sold these dang zoos to so many people that they are becoming more and more common. I just thought it would be fun to show them on the website and then if someone had them in another state they could say "hey! that's what I just got."

I didn't raise the price. Actually I still sell them how I always did: $10 for like 20 polyps and $15 for a LOT more polyps. I mean if the frag is like a small colony I'll sell it for $15, hah hah.

When I posted in here about another zoo I have, CoralNutz told me that it looked like a red ring PHE. I disagreed but I did not list it on zooID. I just didn't want to post pics of zoos that look really really similar to ones that are already up on the site. Also, just because it looks similar to a red ring PHE doesn't mean I am gonna charge out the yinyang for them. I'll still charge the same amount I charge for all of my zoos = $10 for a frag.

So my point is that there are some of us out there who are using the website appropriately and just because some people aren't doing the same...well...no offense, but it's kind of like you are taking your toys and going home.

Yeah it sucks that that guy used the website like that. It's totally wrong, but if there is no website to go to where we can actually SEE what a zooanthid looks like then any schmo off the street can claim to have a PHE and sell it for $20 per polyp. I guess the same thing does happen with the pictures up there, but I at least use it as a reference point. Without your pictures (CoralNutz) of the red ring PHEs, I would have totally listed my zoo and called it something new. But yours showed the zoo in different lighting and I saw how truely similar it was, allowing me to make an informed decision about whether to post it up there.

 

[CoralNutz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6651185#post6651185 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EvilMel
So my point is that there are some of us out there who are using the website appropriately and just because some people aren't doing the same...well...no offense, but it's kind of like you are taking your toys and going home.

I don't think I would call it "taking my toys and going home" I never ever submitted pics of mine cause I wanted them on there. I was asked if he could use them on his site. At the time I thought to myself, sure why not. I guess I just disagree with what the site seems to be all about and decided it's in my best interest to not have my photos or name on their.

I wish whodah the best with the site, I think it's becoming a big hit. After all every other thread on the zoa forum seems to be "Do these have a name yet" or "What are these called".

 

[JnS]

what are my brown zoa's called..... :lol:

 

[Crusty Old Shellback]

EvilMel,
How's the Naso doing?

Anyway I'm gla dto hear that you follow the same rules that I do. I have several zoo's that are unique but i don't give in to the hype and up my prices. I'm basically the same as you small frags for 10 bucks. i'd much rather trade zoo's 1 for 1 than sell them though.

Funny thing happened with one of my unique zoo's I bought from a fellow reefer. There was a thread started about soem that looked really similar to mine. I posted a pic of them in that thread. Next thing I know, the originator of teh thread PM's me telling me they sell for like 20 buks a poylop and that mine came from him. I remineded him of which zoo's I did get from him and they weren't the ones in question.

I did think it was a bit rediculas to sell them at that price. I continue to trade these zoo's with others or sell them at my regular price, 10 bucks a frag as I do with all of my frags. I've even donated some to our club raffels to help support the club as well as just given some away to club members because they came to my house and thought they looked cool. The only thing I asked was that they didn't start selling them at a huge markup.

My zoo's have now been distributed across the country. I just hope they don't show up on Ebay with a big price tag on them

 

[tekknoschtev]

blown63chevy - your practices are very similar to mine. I couldnt justify ethically charging $20/polyp, even if thats close to what I paid. $10 frags seem to be a big hit among my local forum, and truth be told, I'd rather sell things at well under what they could get, that way more people have a greater variety of zoas, and on top of that, I get a good selling reputation for it. $5-$10 frags (depending on size, generally 10-30+ polyps respectively, but sometimes quite a few more) seems fair to me. I'm still a newbie in respect to this hobby, and I prefer to spend less, get smaller frags and grow them out, and I know I'm not alone in that respect

Gllad to hear others practice the same!

 

[mummra100769]

hmmm... as someone who has many pics up and named on that site this thread has given some things to think about.

 

[whodah]

indeed.

ok, quick fix put into place on ebay linking. hopefully i didn't break anything in the process. if i did, please let me know!

i've got a lot of changes in the works that i'll try and get implemented on an accelerated schedule. i've got some coding promised to our local reefing club (CVR) that i need to do first, but gimme a couple weeks and the changes will be in place.

please remember that i do this stuff when i have free time and some changes will take time!

/edit - fixed a broken bbcode

 

[Mr. Ugly]

Whodah, you kill me, man! That's an awesome quick fix

Funniest thing I've seen all week. You Dah Man

 

[jerrymlr1]

Something like this was bound to happen. Just needs to be fixed and the bugs worked out, not scrapped.
CoralNutz, I for one certainly appreciate you putting your zoas on the zoaid site. The site is cool not ot mention helpful. I say let people make million$ if they do it honestly. If anyone needs to pull their zoas off it's that yokel on ebay.
Jerry