Would you suggest a grounding probe?
- Thread starter dreaminmel
- Start date
So you would add a ground probe to a tank witout a GFCI? Now hold your hand on your lights that have a short in them and stick your hand in the water and tell me again about safety. You might be all right if you had GFCI but without one you may be dead. How did that ground probe help again?
RichConley
New member
READ POSTS BEFORE YOU RESPOND.
IT HAS BEEN SAID REPEATEDLY THAT WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT USING A GROUND PROBE WITHOUT A GFCI. STOP BRINGING THAT UP. ITS NOT GERMAINE TO THE CONVERSATION.
THE QUESTION IS WHETHER SOMEONE WOULD USE A PROBE WITH A GFCI. WE ALL KNOW USING ONE WITHOUT A GFCI IS A BAD IDEA. THATS NOT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. IF YOU CAN'T READ THE THREAD AND STAY ON TOPIC, THEN STOP POSTING.
sorry bout the caps, but I felt it was the only way to get through.
I bring up using a ground probe without a GFCI to illustrate that the GFCI is the safety device and not the ground probe. The statement that a ground probe is a safety device is what I strongly disagree with. If it is in fact a safety device, it should increase the safety of the tank without a GFCI, but it doesn't A ground probe is NOT a safety device.
As for reading a post before I respond, I did. The question I asked was not answered but avoided. Why don't you read the posts before responding? In fact, there is no documented use for a ground probe. It is a reefing myth started years ago to help lateral line disease. It was not added as a safety device. I feel giving others bad advice when it comes to safety is dangerous. Adding a grounding probe to any tank increases the danger of shock. Are you aware that GFCI's have a history of failure. That is why they come equipped with test buttons. They should be tested monthly. If one fails and you have a ground probe in place than you are in the situation that I keep bringing up.....that is a tank with a ground probe and no GFCI. So it is a valid question, because it is a situation that WILL occure.
As for reading a post before I respond, I did. The question I asked was not answered but avoided. Why don't you read the posts before responding? In fact, there is no documented use for a ground probe. It is a reefing myth started years ago to help lateral line disease. It was not added as a safety device. I feel giving others bad advice when it comes to safety is dangerous. Adding a grounding probe to any tank increases the danger of shock. Are you aware that GFCI's have a history of failure. That is why they come equipped with test buttons. They should be tested monthly. If one fails and you have a ground probe in place than you are in the situation that I keep bringing up.....that is a tank with a ground probe and no GFCI. So it is a valid question, because it is a situation that WILL occure.
dreaminmel
New member
So at this point I've decided I'm just going to use my husbands voltage meter before sticking my hands in the tank and avoid this whole thing... thanks for all the replies people. It's always good to look on both sides of the fence. Happy 4th of July!! :celeb1:
melev
Well-known member
I've run tanks with and without ground probes, with and without GCFI breakers or outlets. I've been shocked and not shocked. That's the extent of my testing.
I do put ground probes in my tanks, and run them with GCFI and non-GCFI breakers, divvying up the equipment across these as I find appropriate.
I do put ground probes in my tanks, and run them with GCFI and non-GCFI breakers, divvying up the equipment across these as I find appropriate.
bureau13
New member
OK, since the original topic of whether a ground probe is a good idea or not has degenerated into whether its a safety device, please allow me to reel it back in a bit. I mentioned The Reef Aquarium vol 3 but since no one ran out and bought it on my recommendation, here is a link they provided which explains their position perfectly.
Oh look...its on a Georgia Tech website. Do they have electrical engineers there? :smokin:
jds
Oh look...its on a Georgia Tech website. Do they have electrical engineers there? :smokin:
jds
Avast Marine
.Registered Member
Very simply, a grounding probe offers a alternate path to ground. The resistance of a Ti rod connected to the copper wiring of the circuit going to the panel then to the real ground offers much less resistance than my hand to my feet to my shoes to my wet floor. Givin that the current will travel in the path of least resistance I see this as a saftey precaution. The water is grounded effectively, no one will debate that. There is a very real chance this will cause current to flow in your tank. This is probably not good for fish, but having current in the tank and me being the most likley choice of ground is definitely not good for me. I am not a EE and this is for sure not that complicated of a subject to merit one. I use a ground probe plugged into gfci, and so yes I would "suggest" you do the same.
I am sorry, but just because it's a Georgia Tech website doesn't mean the article is based on anything other than opinion. No data was presented or studies run, just personal opinion expressed. Who was the author and what background does he have. Some of his opinions support my position, but I put little weight behind the article all the same.
So now your water is grounded. What happens if you have a short in your lights and touch them and the water at the same time? Fortunately the GFCI should trip and save you, but without the probe, there would have been no current flow. If the GFCi were defective, you would have been shocked severly with current passing through you chest area. Possibly killed.
The point that really makes me wonder about this whole issue is that there is no known benefit from a ground probe. Why have one at all, aside from the safety issue?
bureau13
New member
I don't know who wrote the article, but it was referenced in Sprung and Delbeek's Reef Aquarium vol 3. Not that they're necessarily EEs. Whatever...its logical and makes sense. What data are you looking for? I have yet to hear a refutation of the points made either by logic or data, and since by your own statements, there has been no proof that they help anything, I won't be putting one in my tank.
jds
jds
Avast Marine
.Registered Member
You provide a very compelling arguement against the use of this probe. Let me ask you a question. How many prongs do the powerheads have that hang in your tank? If you answered 2 which most of us will, how is that gfci going to work for you?
I am not trying to argue I just really don't know.
I am not trying to argue I just really don't know.
Avast Marine
.Registered Member
So if the hot wire on a powerhead comes loose in the tank, and the water is conducting current will the GFCI notice a differance and trip? Or because of the saltwaters ability to cunduct current will the water simply show the same voltage?
If a GFCI is in use on your tank it is not possible to be injured in the process of "tripping it". The current required to trip a GFCI is far below that required to stop a human heart from beating (i.e. induce ventricular fibrillation) - hence this is why it saves lives and is reqired by code for outlets located near water. So in terms of safety a grounding probe is meaningless - HTH.
Here is a link that explains this...http://www.codecheck.com/gfci_principal.htm
