WOW, bad press for Tunze Turbelle

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it sounds like you folks need to make a solidworks model of your pump and propeller mechanism, then perform some flowworks fluid dynamics analysis on it. From what I've read here, it looks like you are having issues modeling your predicted output since your calculations arent accounting for viscous effects of water so there is a lot of drag involved that the model doesnt account for. This would be exascerbated in smaller pumps by the more restrictive shields in perportion to the propeller size and flow.

My suggestion? Hire an engineer very familiar with fluid dynamics and you will have accurate predictions of flow quickly. Furthermore, once a model is made, it is easy to tweak the model, without having to go through costly prototyping, to determine what may help your design.

good luck! I use Tunze in my frag tank and Ecotech in the display, I like them both. I can easily recognize the problem that you are facing. Designing a high flow pump that isnt so high RPM that it will cavitate, that has enough shielding around it that it wont suck in critters, but that has enough output to satisfy a public that always wants more flow. It is tough!

what I see as your largest issue. Ecotech pumps are large but the in-tank footprint is small so they are able to make a LARGE propeller and shield mechanism without it seeming huge in the tank, since the other half is outside. Tunze must try to make a large propeller and shield mechanism with the motor integrated, which results in a larger in-tank presence that likely has detrimental effects on sales. Id suggest looking into a sealed motor where the stator is in the center and the rotor is along the outside with fins mounted directly to it, the entire thing could be shielded and your intake area could be spread all around the motor resulting in less drag and less starving of the pump. I've got some better ideas but without being on your payroll im not giving them up!

good luck!
 
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We appreciate the feedback, but we have things under control. I head to Germany in the next 2 weeks and will do a lot of work on this. As I said, existing customers will be taken care of, we expect all upgrades to be retrofittable, i.e. just a new prop, or new propeller housing. They may not be free, it is possible at the end the pumps price has to increase a little because it will cost more to build, but any cost would be very minimal and for the most popular model, 6105 we do expect it to be free and very simple.

There are trade offs to every design, I think you may all be surprised when you see more test results, as I initially said, the gph is not the full story and when you get to talking about gph and flow velocity at distance, we have the superior design. 4000 gph you cannot aim, will have less impact than 2200 you can, even where things stand today, and when we get that to our stated numbers you will be very pleasantly surprised, and yes, most will end up running at 50% and wondering what all the fuss was about. I urge you to wait and see, this won't be solved in days, it will take months, I expect in 1-2 months the 6105 solution will be ready, 6205 shortly behind that but 6305 is more intensive and many parts have to be made.
 
but any cost would be very minimal and for the most popular model, 6105 we do expect it to be free and very simple.

Great! As I mentioned earlier, I fully expect Tunze to commit a fix that satisfy majority of existing and future users. I love how suddenly people are implying that Tunze doesn't know or understand how to make pumps anymore. :hmm4:
 
looking forward to increasing flow since i just went with a larger tank :). you guys have the best customer service and integrity i've ever experienced!
 
I love how suddenly people are implying that Tunze doesn't know or understand how to make pumps anymore. :hmm4:

I agree, funny stuff. Tunze has been building pumps a lot longer than most people have been in the hobby and is probably the most trusted and respected source of high quality powerheads. Some mistakes were made, it happens. I would personally be surprised if Tunze didn't come out of this shining given their history of customer service.

The title of that article might as well have been "If you love your Tunzes now... just wait!" :)
 
Wow.
I'd love to run my 6105 next to my mp40 just to see the difference again. Unfortunately that would require me to order more parts for the vortech.

I can assure anyone that the flow produced inside an old shoe box is far below the max flow stated by Ecotech.

I'm really looking forward to the improvements to come on this one.
Thanks for keeping us up to date Roger.
 
Does all of this poopstorm mean the 7096 software update has been shelved?:lol:

I'm quite confident Tunze will take care of us. Since my tank is LPS/softy dominant, I may either skip the upgrade, or as Roger suggested run my 6205's at a lower output. Much more flow in my tank might blow my torch off it's skeleton!
 
to be honest, who is going to run the vortech at its 100% constant full speed all the time.

the flow rate will drop significantly in all modes except the constant speed mode, and you have to tolerate the external motor noise if you like to keep it at full power.
 
Personally I don't agree with the use of words like "fix" and "defect" when it seems more like a matter of the numbers just being incorrectly calculated. I haven't seen anything that indicates that Tunze knowingly misled customers and it speaks volumes that they are so proactively working to improve their product. Tunze could have easily said "oops, numbers are off, here are the corrected numbers", changed packaging and manuals, and gone about their business.

I'll look forward to any improvements that come along, but if nothing ever changed I would still be just as happy with my Streams. It's very encouraging to know that the design of the Streams still has room for future improvements, and to me that is not a defect.
 
Personally I don't agree with the use of words like "fix" and "defect" when it seems more like a matter of the numbers just being incorrectly calculated. I haven't seen anything that indicates that Tunze knowingly misled customers and it speaks volumes that they are so proactively working to improve their product. Tunze could have easily said "oops, numbers are off, here are the corrected numbers", changed packaging and manuals, and gone about their business.

I'll look forward to any improvements that come along, but if nothing ever changed I would still be just as happy with my Streams. It's very encouraging to know that the design of the Streams still has room for future improvements, and to me that is not a defect.

I fully disagree with your statement...
 
It is time to stop discussing this matter until further notice.

It is time to stop discussing this matter until further notice.

It is time to stop discussing this matter. It is not going anywhere.
Why don't we wait until further notice from Tunze?

It is not helpful for both Tunze and customers!!!
 
I find it interesting how many Tunze customers (fanbois) who don't care they paid a good price for a pump which doesn't produce the results 1. as advertised and 2. close to other vendors pumps in the same category.

How are you not ****ed you overpaid for the same performance a smaller pump produces?

And for those that are happy now and 'won't get the fix' why? So when you go to sell your pump, the unsuspecting buyer will think they're getting the actual results, instead of the lower output?

So if you are happy with your pump now, do you feel cheated because your flow is great, but you paid more than you should have as you could have gone with a smaller pump? When the 'fix' comes out are you going to sell the new pump and 'downgrade' to a smaller pump which produces similar flow as your current model?
 
It's not a matter of 'they lied', but more 'crap, I didn't get what I paid for'.

This post is an example of why I'm closing this thread.


This isn't RC's, Roger's or Tunze's official position; it's just my personal opinion:

You're an idiot.

Be offended. I don't care.
 
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