HumbleLobster
Should be Quarantined
If I had to guess its the maximum amperage pull, like during initial start up.
Your Electrician Here
- Thread starter Young Frankenstein
- Start date
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
40 Watts is the operating power... .66A is the likely the locked rotor or startup current requirement.
In either case, your float switch is NOT AT ALL suitable for the load. You need to use a relay and drive the float with 12V instead. That way the float switch is only going to see 100mA or less.
In either case, your float switch is NOT AT ALL suitable for the load. You need to use a relay and drive the float with 12V instead. That way the float switch is only going to see 100mA or less.
Thanks for the replies HumbleLobster + BeanAnimal.
When looking for a relay, any suggestions? I'm not too sure what I'm looking for.
Or should I just forget about setting up the float switch to the return pump and use it as an ATO instead. I have an Aqualifter I could use for that, 3 watts I believe, that should be fine right?
When looking for a relay, any suggestions? I'm not too sure what I'm looking for.
Or should I just forget about setting up the float switch to the return pump and use it as an ATO instead. I have an Aqualifter I could use for that, 3 watts I believe, that should be fine right?
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Not sure exactly what you are trying to do, so it is hard to say 
Basically, I want to setup the float switch on the rim of my main display and then splice it to an extension cord which will power my return pump. In this position the float switch should remain on but if the water level gets too high in the main tank, the float switch rises and turns off. That way if my CPR overflow fails and my return pump keeps pumping water to my display the float switch will hopefully get triggered and cut power to the return pump. Preventing any nasty flooding.
I have been reading too many stories of these overflows failing so I want to add a failsafe feature to cut power to the return pump in case it happens to me.
I have been reading too many stories of these overflows failing so I want to add a failsafe feature to cut power to the return pump in case it happens to me.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
That may prevent a flood, but it will burn out the pump. The pump will cycle on and off as the float switch custs the power too it and the water then drains back to the sump, only to allow the pump to start again.
You need a latching relay circuit with a manual reset. I don't have time now to post the circuit, but may be able too later.
You need a latching relay circuit with a manual reset. I don't have time now to post the circuit, but may be able too later.
birddog486
Member
I have the same setup as you. I use a floatswitch in the display, but I also have a check valve in the return line so the pump wont cycle unless the water is leaving through the overflow.
uncleof6
Active member
By following the wiring diagram that is on the ballast. Beyond that I can not answer as not all ballasts are wired up the same. Need to know what ballast, what lamp etc.
Jim
Glad to hear someone else has accomplished what I'm trying to do. What kind of floatswitch are you using and how is it connected to your return pump?
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Check valves fail... and chances are it will happen at the least convenient time.
Birddog... if you rely on a check valve to prevent backflow from flooding your sump... you are going to end up flooding your sump. The queustion is not if but when.
Birddog... if you rely on a check valve to prevent backflow from flooding your sump... you are going to end up flooding your sump. The queustion is not if but when.
celamb89
New member
Hi again, this is what i've been looking at to hookup at home
IceCap 250 Watt Electronic Metal Halide/ HQI Ballast
http://http://www.marinedepot.com/IceCap_250_Watt_Electronic_Metal_Halide_HQI_Ballast_250_Watt_Electronic_Metal_Halide_Ballasts-IceCap-IC3111-FILTACBAMHTFEB-IC3161-vi.html
Spiderlight Reflector with Mogul Socket and Bracket
http://http://www.marinedepot.com/Spiderlight_Reflector_with_Mogul_Socket_and_Bracket_Metal_Halide_Reflectors-Captive_Sun-CP5753-FILTACRAMH-vi.html
250 Watt 14000K Metal Halide Bulb - Blue Life SPS (South Pacific Sunlight), Mogul Base
I appreciate the help, I wanna know if these will work toghether so i can hookem up at home.
Thanks again!
I have a couple of questions for the experts!
First, a little background on my system, which is still in the planning stage...nothing has actually been done yet. It will be an in-wall setup with a fish room behind it. It will be going in a new house that we are currently designing. I plan on using 3 20A circuits to power the system. Each circuit will power one outlet in the fish room. I will have 20 other outlets in the walls throughout the room. These outlets will have their own 12 gauge wire that will run through the wall from the outlet to a central location next to the 3 powered outlets. I will attach a replacement plug to the end of each of the 20 wires. These plugs will go into power strips (either PC4's from my RKE or American DJ's). Each power strip will then plug into one of the 3 main outlets. I will build a waterproof box around the 3 outlets and the power strips.
Here are my questions about this set-up (I know very little about electrical wiring, so bear with me!!):
1) First off, is there anything wrong with doing it like this (do I have to follow code, will it even work, ...)?
2) Since the circuits are 20A, I will need to use outlets and plugs that are rated for 20A (instead of 15A), right? (Dumb question, I know, but I'm pretty sure I have seen people using 15A equipment on a 20A circuit.)
3) Do all 20A replacement plugs have one prong that is vertical, one that is horizontal, and one ground (instead of the two vertical and one ground on a 15A plug)? If so, how would I get these to fit into the sockets on the power strips (which have two vertical slots and a ground)?
4) I was told to use Romex 12/2 NM-B wire. Is that correct? All wiring will be inclosed in the walls and I plan on using green board instead of drywall.
5) Would it be easier if I just used 15A circuits? If I switch to 15A, it would eliminate questions 2 and 3. I will have a total of about 3500 watts in the room (can't wait to see the electric bill!!), but would like to allow extra wattage in case I add more equipment down the road.
Thanks in advance for helping me not burn my house down!!!
Brad
First, a little background on my system, which is still in the planning stage...nothing has actually been done yet. It will be an in-wall setup with a fish room behind it. It will be going in a new house that we are currently designing. I plan on using 3 20A circuits to power the system. Each circuit will power one outlet in the fish room. I will have 20 other outlets in the walls throughout the room. These outlets will have their own 12 gauge wire that will run through the wall from the outlet to a central location next to the 3 powered outlets. I will attach a replacement plug to the end of each of the 20 wires. These plugs will go into power strips (either PC4's from my RKE or American DJ's). Each power strip will then plug into one of the 3 main outlets. I will build a waterproof box around the 3 outlets and the power strips.
Here are my questions about this set-up (I know very little about electrical wiring, so bear with me!!):
1) First off, is there anything wrong with doing it like this (do I have to follow code, will it even work, ...)?
2) Since the circuits are 20A, I will need to use outlets and plugs that are rated for 20A (instead of 15A), right? (Dumb question, I know, but I'm pretty sure I have seen people using 15A equipment on a 20A circuit.)
3) Do all 20A replacement plugs have one prong that is vertical, one that is horizontal, and one ground (instead of the two vertical and one ground on a 15A plug)? If so, how would I get these to fit into the sockets on the power strips (which have two vertical slots and a ground)?
4) I was told to use Romex 12/2 NM-B wire. Is that correct? All wiring will be inclosed in the walls and I plan on using green board instead of drywall.
5) Would it be easier if I just used 15A circuits? If I switch to 15A, it would eliminate questions 2 and 3. I will have a total of about 3500 watts in the room (can't wait to see the electric bill!!), but would like to allow extra wattage in case I add more equipment down the road.
Thanks in advance for helping me not burn my house down!!!
Brad
uncleof6
Active member
1) This is potentially a code can of worms. Plug and cord is intended for temporary use, where your installation will be a permanent one. Putting a male plug on romex, in essence makes it a "flexible cord," and it is illegal to run a flexible cord inside a wall, through permanently installed cabinetry, or directly through a wall from one room to another. On the other hand, romex is listed to be run inside walls. But cannot be exposed or "unprotected", and there are a number of other codes concerning this. Like I said, it is a "potential can of worms" Since this is not a temporary installation, by any means, most jurisdictions will require you to pull a permit, and the NEC will be enforced. It is likely, that an inspector will cite you for the plugs on the romex, but it may be difficult for him to find a code section violation. I did a little research on it-- and have never considered using such a scheme. As far as it working, it probably will, but I think it is not a good plan.
If you really need 60 amps in your fish room, I strongly urge you to pull a permit, and call a licensed electrician. Have them install a 30 amp subpanel in the fish room, and then have the outlets divided up on breakers in the subpanel, and hard wired to the subpanel-- it is the right way to do it.
2) You do not need to use 20 amp receptacles. 15 amp receptacles are permitted, as it is not possible (without deliberate modification) to plug a TRUE 20 amp load (as designed) into a 15 amp receptacle, as you have noted the plugs are different. You cannot use 20 amp receptacles on a 15 amp circuit. If you intend to attach a 20 amp load to any of the receptacles, then that receptacle should be on a dedicated circuit.
3) All 20 amp plugs, have one vertical, and one horizontal prong, this is to "prohibit" plugging a 20 amp load into a 15 amp circuit. 20 amp receptacles have one vertical slot, and a combination vertical and horizontal. This permit the use of 15 amp loads on that recptacle.......
4) 12 gauge for 20 amp circuits, 14 gauge for 15 amp circuits.
5) A circuit should not have a continuous load of greater than 80% of the circuit rating. So your three 20 amp circuits, will handle 48 amps, (16 amps per.) Three 15 amp circuits would handle 36 amps. (12 amps per) Even at that, I would strongly recommend the 30 amp subpanel. (Total of 60 amps, 30 amps per leg)
If you don't want to burn the house down, do it the right way the first time.
Regards,
Jim
If you really need 60 amps in your fish room, I strongly urge you to pull a permit, and call a licensed electrician. Have them install a 30 amp subpanel in the fish room, and then have the outlets divided up on breakers in the subpanel, and hard wired to the subpanel-- it is the right way to do it.
2) You do not need to use 20 amp receptacles. 15 amp receptacles are permitted, as it is not possible (without deliberate modification) to plug a TRUE 20 amp load (as designed) into a 15 amp receptacle, as you have noted the plugs are different. You cannot use 20 amp receptacles on a 15 amp circuit. If you intend to attach a 20 amp load to any of the receptacles, then that receptacle should be on a dedicated circuit.
3) All 20 amp plugs, have one vertical, and one horizontal prong, this is to "prohibit" plugging a 20 amp load into a 15 amp circuit. 20 amp receptacles have one vertical slot, and a combination vertical and horizontal. This permit the use of 15 amp loads on that recptacle.......
4) 12 gauge for 20 amp circuits, 14 gauge for 15 amp circuits.
5) A circuit should not have a continuous load of greater than 80% of the circuit rating. So your three 20 amp circuits, will handle 48 amps, (16 amps per.) Three 15 amp circuits would handle 36 amps. (12 amps per) Even at that, I would strongly recommend the 30 amp subpanel. (Total of 60 amps, 30 amps per leg)
If you don't want to burn the house down, do it the right way the first time.
Regards,
Jim
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Not an electrician but this is a bad idea too. You can use a higher amp rating wire or outlet on a lower amp circuit, because the breaker should trip first, but not the other way around. You could short out the 15A part of the wiring with less current than it takes to trip the 20A circuit.
uncleof6
Active member
As long as there is more than one receptacle on the circuit, the code specifically allows the use of 15 amp receptacles on 20 Amp branch circuits. The code does not permit the use of 14 gauge wire on a 20 amp breaker, or 20 amp receptacles on a 15 amp circuit.
Jim
Thanks a lot for the reply! I was worried that it was going to be a problem with the codes. :sad2: Would I run into the same problem if I used single stranded wire instead of Romex and ran it through conduit outside of the wall? I have a feeling thats not going to work either though. I think I'll end up just having the electrician wire that room along with the rest of the house.
Billybeau1
Premium Member
You do not need that much in your fish room.
3500 watts is a little less than 30 amps so (2) 15 amp circuits in the fish room should do the job. Preferably on different legs of the 220.
I also doubt you will need that much fire power as you'd be surprised how little a fish tank draws, even counting pumps, lighting etc. It is a lot less than people think.
I agree though that this is a job for a licensed electrician as they are familiar with the LOCAL codes in your area. They do differ from state to state.
I think if you allow for (2) 15 amp circuits in your fish room, you will be fine.
3500 watts is a little less than 30 amps so (2) 15 amp circuits in the fish room should do the job. Preferably on different legs of the 220.
I also doubt you will need that much fire power as you'd be surprised how little a fish tank draws, even counting pumps, lighting etc. It is a lot less than people think.
I agree though that this is a job for a licensed electrician as they are familiar with the LOCAL codes in your area. They do differ from state to state.
I think if you allow for (2) 15 amp circuits in your fish room, you will be fine.
uncleof6
Active member
You do not need that much in your fish room.
3500 watts is a little less than 30 amps so (2) 15 amp circuits in the fish room should do the job. Preferably on different legs of the 220.
I also doubt you will need that much fire power as you'd be surprised how little a fish tank draws, even counting pumps, lighting etc. It is a lot less than people think.
I agree though that this is a job for a licensed electrician as they are familiar with the LOCAL codes in your area. They do differ from state to state.
I think if you allow for (2) 15 amp circuits in your fish room, you will be fine.
This is not necessarily true, and does not follow proper circuit loading. If the OP is running a continuous load of 3500 watts, (29.17 amps,) then two 15 amp circuits will not be adequate. HID lighting, and pump motors have an "inrush current" that is considerably higher than the continuous load. With the circuits loaded to near capacity, the system will not be reliable, and breaker tripping will be a common occurrence. Circuits are sized 20% higher than the intended load. This is the difference between systems, and GOOD systems.
As I had stated earlier, a 15 amp circuit should only carry 12 amps continuous, and a 20 amp circuit should only carry 16 amps. The OP took the time to do load calcs on his system, which is more than most would do. Accordingly, the minimum circuit requirements would be 2 - 20 amp circuits. This is a very common need for larger marine systems, and far better than the mess of overloaded circuits I read about and see all the time.
One thing that needs to be noted about the NEC and other electrical codes, is that they put forth minimum requirements, that are merely adequate for safety. They do not provide convenience, or allowance for future expansion.
Jim
