fishfanatic06
New member
Never mind, ur right.
Zeovit SPS reefs
- Thread starter fishfanatic06
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fishfanatic06
New member
maybe i should go with the ultralith system.
F35-Joint Strike Fighter
New member
Go Ultralith! save some $$$$
ReefRockerLive
GHL Mitras LX7 Club
Get the UltraLith system! It is cheaper and the supplements will last you longer. All you need to dose are 3 bottles and the rocks. If you decide to go UltraLith, LMK I can email you the user guide so you get a better understanding of the product.
I have never really understood the friction on zeo threads, it is just another method for people to choose. You ultimately decide what method, husbandry, products, equipment etc. is for you.
Unarce said it well, what you like is what you like. All systems push new products on the market, that is the way of commerce. This seems no different than any other product out there. I understand there were issues back a few years ago with zeo users on this board, those days are long gone. I for one, a zeo user, hope to see reef keeping continue on the cutting edge regardless of product or company. It can only help further understanding and ability to care for our creatures long term. I have always kept an open mind regarding all methods of reefkeeping. I respect and admire the folks who MiddletonMark mentioned and there are many other tanks as well out there with different methods and beautiful corals and fish. I am always striving for optimal color and health in my animals, aren't we all?? How you do it is no less valuable or "less than" how I do it. I hope people can continue to add opinions and their own experiences on this thread in a most positive and relaxed manner
.
fishfanatic06, check out both systems in detail. Figure out which one makes sense to you and works best for your needs. If you decide to go zeo check out their site, very helpful people. Feel free to PM me as well if you have any questions. I am always honest and straightforward about things and can share my experience with zeo. I am unfamiliar with Ultralith but it looks like there are others who can help you if you decide to go that way.
Unarce said it well, what you like is what you like. All systems push new products on the market, that is the way of commerce. This seems no different than any other product out there. I understand there were issues back a few years ago with zeo users on this board, those days are long gone. I for one, a zeo user, hope to see reef keeping continue on the cutting edge regardless of product or company. It can only help further understanding and ability to care for our creatures long term. I have always kept an open mind regarding all methods of reefkeeping. I respect and admire the folks who MiddletonMark mentioned and there are many other tanks as well out there with different methods and beautiful corals and fish. I am always striving for optimal color and health in my animals, aren't we all?? How you do it is no less valuable or "less than" how I do it. I hope people can continue to add opinions and their own experiences on this thread in a most positive and relaxed manner
. fishfanatic06, check out both systems in detail. Figure out which one makes sense to you and works best for your needs. If you decide to go zeo check out their site, very helpful people. Feel free to PM me as well if you have any questions. I am always honest and straightforward about things and can share my experience with zeo. I am unfamiliar with Ultralith but it looks like there are others who can help you if you decide to go that way.
MiddletonMark
Premium Member
Well put :thumbsup:<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8896413#post8896413 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by slojmn
I am always striving for optimal color and health in my animals, aren't we all?? How you do it is no less valuable or "less than" how I do it. I hope people can continue to add opinions and their own experiences on this thread in a most positive and relaxed manner
Because we're running two different tanks, isn't it possible that we're both a little right?
And given how little we truly know about captive care of our corals ... likely to both be a little wrong too.
[I know I don't like to admit that part]
Most definately :rollface: . I am humbled regularly by my brilliant students and have no problem admitting I am wrong at times
. It seems with reefkeeping it really is an art mixed with the science of it all...often a thin line we tread
. I am always learning from many people and mostly I just soak it all in and "try stuff", see what works, what doesn't. Anyhow, the zeo has met my expectations in the algae department, the big reason I tried it. I committed to one year and re-evaluated, I decided to go for another year and see where it takes me. Currently I am six months into the second year committment and plan on re-evaluating in another six months. At the rate my tank is going I'll probably be continuing the use of Zeovit at that time. It's working for me and that is what matters most.A pleasant and informative ZEOvit thread over 4 pages deep in the SPS Keepers forum of RC? Somewhere we've crossed some strange boundary, and Life has taken a turn to the surreal.
You've gotta love it ... :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
JMO ...
But it does seem to me that something interesting was added to the toolbox of reefkeepers with the emergence of the ZEOvit Methodology (and others) ... I call it, for lack of a better term, "bacterioplankton filtration."
Other than the choices of the individual user, the fundamental difference between "great colour and low nutrients" systems and "bacterioplankton filtration" systems is carbon limitation. While the "great colour and low nutrients" systems are both carbon and nitrogen limited, "bacterioplankton filtration" systems are only nitrogen limited. It's quite possible (but not inevitable) that small doses of a simple sugar (a carbon source) in combination with small doses of your favorite acetate salt (an electron donor) would increase bacterial metabolism involving N-compounds, and enrich the microbiota associated with corals (the holobiont).
JMO ...
The process of comparison and contrast between bacterioplankton reefkeeping strategies, and more classic reefkeeping strategies is difficult to do. The fundamental difference bewteen the two styles (to say nothing of the difference in technology choices) produces synergies (variable interactions) which are almost impossible to sort out in a way that is useful to all reefkeepers, regardless of strategy.
But the process which compares and contrasts similar bacterioplankton methodologies holds the promise of being of use to all reefkeepers ... just as the "compare & contrast" process has been so valuble to BB, SSB, and DSB Berlin-style reefkeepers.
JMO
:thumbsup:
You've gotta love it ... :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
I don't think the ecosystems created by the folks listed by MiddletonMark (... the list really is almost endless ...) could be improved by any single factor ... except perhaps the hobbyists themselves (Hmmm ... how can we clone Alexander Girz and Steve Weast ... with amino acids maybe? ... hehe ...). Artistry and mastery speak for themselves, and I suspect that the individuals involved would product similar results regardless of the "system" they were using.
JMO ...
But it does seem to me that something interesting was added to the toolbox of reefkeepers with the emergence of the ZEOvit Methodology (and others) ... I call it, for lack of a better term, "bacterioplankton filtration."
In and of itself with all other variables being equal? I wouldn't think so, but there is a principle involved which could very well improve any system dedicated to Acroporid corals and their relatives: Carbon Limitation.
Other than the choices of the individual user, the fundamental difference between "great colour and low nutrients" systems and "bacterioplankton filtration" systems is carbon limitation. While the "great colour and low nutrients" systems are both carbon and nitrogen limited, "bacterioplankton filtration" systems are only nitrogen limited. It's quite possible (but not inevitable) that small doses of a simple sugar (a carbon source) in combination with small doses of your favorite acetate salt (an electron donor) would increase bacterial metabolism involving N-compounds, and enrich the microbiota associated with corals (the holobiont).
JMO ...
Truer words were ne'er posted.
The process of comparison and contrast between bacterioplankton reefkeeping strategies, and more classic reefkeeping strategies is difficult to do. The fundamental difference bewteen the two styles (to say nothing of the difference in technology choices) produces synergies (variable interactions) which are almost impossible to sort out in a way that is useful to all reefkeepers, regardless of strategy.
But the process which compares and contrasts similar bacterioplankton methodologies holds the promise of being of use to all reefkeepers ... just as the "compare & contrast" process has been so valuble to BB, SSB, and DSB Berlin-style reefkeepers.
JMO
:thumbsup:
SunnyX
New member
Great thread so far!!
mesocosm, great post as always!!
I personally do not run a particular "system" to maintain my aquarium. I take pieces from all other "systems" and methods out there and incorporate them into my system. After testing and tweaking the different methods available I then focus on one particular aspect of the reef at a time.
All methods should be spoken of freely.
The more you know, the more your corals grow.
mesocosm, great post as always!!
I personally do not run a particular "system" to maintain my aquarium. I take pieces from all other "systems" and methods out there and incorporate them into my system. After testing and tweaking the different methods available I then focus on one particular aspect of the reef at a time.
All methods should be spoken of freely.
The more you know, the more your corals grow.
Mesocosm, your posts are always outstanding.
Fishfanatic I used to run it with the phosban reactor and didn't have any issues. Just get the right size pump, running is lower than 100gal/hr/liter of zeolith, does take longer to bring down the nutirent. I went from 1ppm PO4 and 40ppm No3 to <0.03 PO4 and <.25 NO3 in about 9months. I feed so heavy I don't see my parameters go down any further. I like it so far, and I don't particularly have a heavy skimmer I am running a Tunze 9010 on a 100 gallong tank. Give it a try you may like it.
Fishfanatic I used to run it with the phosban reactor and didn't have any issues. Just get the right size pump, running is lower than 100gal/hr/liter of zeolith, does take longer to bring down the nutirent. I went from 1ppm PO4 and 40ppm No3 to <0.03 PO4 and <.25 NO3 in about 9months. I feed so heavy I don't see my parameters go down any further. I like it so far, and I don't particularly have a heavy skimmer I am running a Tunze 9010 on a 100 gallong tank. Give it a try you may like it.
Potassium (KCL) dosing for Zeovit
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=8899433#post8899433
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=8899433#post8899433
MiddletonMark
Premium Member
No offense, but I could probably make a far longer thread of non-zeo TOTM's. If you'd like I'd be happy to, but I'm not sure how it advances the discussion.
Completely agree.
An interesting point that has been bumping around in my head for a bit.
For the zeo-users, how would what you've learned/experienced with this system apply if you quit using zeo?
What have you learned from this system that changes your thoughts/methods about reefkeeping in general?
IMO, seems like there could be some quite good insights, non-product-related, that we could all learn from. While they might just be anecdote, what learning is applicable to all of our different systems?
Photo-documentation is an excellent entry point for a wide range of reefkeeping discussions, and can provide wonderful enrichment in support of a particular viewpoint ... but ... in the name of all the Gods of the Reef (and the planulae-children of scleractinian corals everywhere), could we please stop deluding ourselves that pictures alone provide any hope of "proving" that one methodology is superior to another?
JMO ...
Remembering that I only speak for one set of experiences regarding ZEOvit ... my own ... several topics leap to mind, but I'll submit this one: Acclimation & Photo-Adaptation. Many Acroporid and related specimens (but not all) directly out of the transship box responded differently when placed into a bacterioplankton-driven system, compared with what I had come to expect from my experiences with placing them into a Berlin-style holding system. My observations have enriched my husbandry skills ... independent of system configuration.
I suspect that this enrichment of my husbandry skills is analogous to what users of both BB and DSB configurations have learned from their experiences.
Two things immediately leap to mind. Regarding "thoughts" ... with a tip of my reefkeeping hat to Jake Adams and Chris Jury ... mass transfer rate is more important than concentration gradients. Regarding "methods" ... I don't need phosphate binders to achieve 0.02 - 0.03 ppm orthophosphate levels with my Hanna colorimeter in the marine ecosystems that I manage.
Cool ... a straightforward, "uncluttered" issue ... what I've learned about Feeding. Bacteriplankton filtration configurations provide direct, powerful demonstrations of the mixotrophic nature of scleractinian corals. The principles underlying such demonstrations are immediately applicable whether you're using a bacterioplankton-driven system, or not.
I'm really not interested in a dissection of a particular product line, and it's perhaps worth noting that my experiences are restricted to a single product set. I'm much more interested in the underlying principles involved with such products. If this constitutes a "hijack" of your initial question ... apologies.
JMO
:thumbsup:
Mark, Great question
. It's always hard to follow one of Mesocosm's posts but I'll give it a try. I have ended up learning a great deal about the science side of things through the use of Zeo. With all the research and discussions like this one I feel like I have a tiny bit more understanding of the reef system and it's life forms that I keep. I will never be at meso's level but I do get some of it. With that info, if I were to quit Zeo, I think I would try to continue creating that kind of an environment, limiting carbon sources, etc. in some fashion. I am not sure, I might try another product...another method...mostly in the name of learning and giving my tank a better chance at survival. Husbandry is always a big part of anygreat system, how well you maintain it, how well you stay "in touch" with it. Ignoring a reef tank whether you are using Zeo or not spells disaster. This steps right into the other part of the equation, committment. You spoke of tanks 4 years and greater, there are many who fall out of the hobby, heck after 5 intense years with my last reef tank I decided to take a break myself. I think committment is part of this as well, moving forward, keeping your tank stable year after year. There are many who do this and many more who can't or don't stick with it. This plays a part in the maturity and stability of the system no matter what your methods and maintenance schedule is. I think for people who try something for a few months it is going to be hard to get any real diffinitive results. I had to make mistakes along the way with Zeo and learn from them, just like the mistakes I made along the way with my last reef tank running a DSB, Refugium, etc. Frankly most of us do learn a lot from our mistakes and this hobby is set up for so many possible mistakes. That is what makes it neccessary to be somewhat diligent in our attention to our reef most days. As with any cutting edge hobby new and cool things will continue to be discovered and tried by those more gifted than myself
. Keep up this great discussion folks and Mark, I am not sure I really answered your great question but I tried.
PrangeWay
Duke of Monte Fisto
I use some of the "extra" additives and mess around with 3rd party produts some for coral food and the like.
But the basic 4 is great. Think of it as phosphate removal w/o leeching iron or aluminum, and as a nirtrate reactor w/o, well a nitrate reactor. If I quit Zeo I'd have to add a GFO, sand or another form of nitrate reduction and either vodka or vinegar for my carbon dosing, all of which to me seem more risky than the simple base zeo.
Of their extras the salt is nice, but red sea coral pro is alot cheaper and seems to be near as good (I think it's K is high also, I'll be testing it this weekend). Their coral foods/amino acids have toke a big cost cut with competition, though I might try the Salifert amino's when they current runs out. Their t5 lights, while not part of the "system", are really really nice, and I won't be buying ATI speicals again I think.
Overall I like it, and for a 50gal it's not to expensive and does what I want it to do (ie control nutrients), now when my 180 gets setup I'll have to think harder on what to use.
PW
But the basic 4 is great. Think of it as phosphate removal w/o leeching iron or aluminum, and as a nirtrate reactor w/o, well a nitrate reactor. If I quit Zeo I'd have to add a GFO, sand or another form of nitrate reduction and either vodka or vinegar for my carbon dosing, all of which to me seem more risky than the simple base zeo.
Of their extras the salt is nice, but red sea coral pro is alot cheaper and seems to be near as good (I think it's K is high also, I'll be testing it this weekend). Their coral foods/amino acids have toke a big cost cut with competition, though I might try the Salifert amino's when they current runs out. Their t5 lights, while not part of the "system", are really really nice, and I won't be buying ATI speicals again I think.
Overall I like it, and for a 50gal it's not to expensive and does what I want it to do (ie control nutrients), now when my 180 gets setup I'll have to think harder on what to use.
PW
