Zeovit
- Thread starter sailfintang
- Start date
Henry Bowman
Reefing since '87
You are correct in the similarities between Zeo and Brightwell. They both add bacteria and a carbon source. I have no idea, and bet no one else does as to what the bacteria being added are or the carbon source mix. Zeo's carbon source (Start2) smells as if it has vinegar in it. There are suggestions that vary with regarding the addition of carbon sources ethanol (vodka), some use sugar and some use vinegar. My bet is that the bottled carbon sources are a mixture of the above listed ingredients combined with bacteria supplements that favor the particular carbon mixture.
As for the snails dying, ensure that you acclimate them over a very safe period of time. They are very pH sensitive and my bet is that they respond poorly to significant changes in alkalinity.... I acclimate snails over a few hours. I know it sounds extreme but I have had die off like you have experienced and now have successfully prevented it by longer acclimitization (sp?).
The rocks leaching nutrients....well, depending on where the rocks are from, they could be pretty nutrient packed. By introducing carbon and bacteria, we are greatly reducing the nutrients in the water column. The nutrients in the rocks will move toward an are of lesser concentration (my theory)..... Stay the course, keep dosing. If you see signs of overdosing, either brown film on the glass (too much carbon) or stringy white stuff and or what look like air bubbles on the rocks (too much bacteria) back off on the particular additive in question. Since each tank is different, the dosing amounts are recomendations and not rules. Generally, I believe the dosing "guidelines" to be a bit excessive in most cases. Lastly, if you have a deep sand bed either in the display or remotely, it can also harbor excess nutrients. "Most", not all carbon / bacteria dosers have a shallow sand bed, that is kept clean or are bare bottom tanks (again, my personal observation).
HTH
As for the snails dying, ensure that you acclimate them over a very safe period of time. They are very pH sensitive and my bet is that they respond poorly to significant changes in alkalinity.... I acclimate snails over a few hours. I know it sounds extreme but I have had die off like you have experienced and now have successfully prevented it by longer acclimitization (sp?).
The rocks leaching nutrients....well, depending on where the rocks are from, they could be pretty nutrient packed. By introducing carbon and bacteria, we are greatly reducing the nutrients in the water column. The nutrients in the rocks will move toward an are of lesser concentration (my theory)..... Stay the course, keep dosing. If you see signs of overdosing, either brown film on the glass (too much carbon) or stringy white stuff and or what look like air bubbles on the rocks (too much bacteria) back off on the particular additive in question. Since each tank is different, the dosing amounts are recomendations and not rules. Generally, I believe the dosing "guidelines" to be a bit excessive in most cases. Lastly, if you have a deep sand bed either in the display or remotely, it can also harbor excess nutrients. "Most", not all carbon / bacteria dosers have a shallow sand bed, that is kept clean or are bare bottom tanks (again, my personal observation).
HTH
fullmonti
now is the time
hi Henry
The snails didn't die right away, over month or two, been acclimating 2-3 hours thought that was enough? Easy enough to go longer if needed.
I used 30lbs of LR from my first tank (no problems in it with algae) about 150lbs dry rock from reef cleaners another aprox 100lbs of LR from LFS I soaked in fresh water for few weeks washed off then left out in sun for few weeks. I used dry rock so I wouldn't be introducing any thing into my new tank. Not sure if that ended up being the case?
I like the idea of alternating zeobak & MB7 may have to try that.
I have 3-4" sand in display tank, but I have a diamond goby that keeps it turned over, he never stops digging! I did have about the same in frag take (started out as fug but macro algae wouldn't grow so turned into frag tank) any way cyano gets bad on the sand in there & I have syphoned top off twice so bit less sand now.
& Thanks again every one I only have one person locally I can talk with around here, so it's very nice to get others experiences/opinions.
The snails didn't die right away, over month or two, been acclimating 2-3 hours thought that was enough? Easy enough to go longer if needed.
I used 30lbs of LR from my first tank (no problems in it with algae) about 150lbs dry rock from reef cleaners another aprox 100lbs of LR from LFS I soaked in fresh water for few weeks washed off then left out in sun for few weeks. I used dry rock so I wouldn't be introducing any thing into my new tank. Not sure if that ended up being the case?
I like the idea of alternating zeobak & MB7 may have to try that.
I have 3-4" sand in display tank, but I have a diamond goby that keeps it turned over, he never stops digging! I did have about the same in frag take (started out as fug but macro algae wouldn't grow so turned into frag tank) any way cyano gets bad on the sand in there & I have syphoned top off twice so bit less sand now.
& Thanks again every one I only have one person locally I can talk with around here, so it's very nice to get others experiences/opinions.
Henry Bowman
Reefing since '87
FM,
I'd suggest checking everything you can to prevent the snail death(s). Having them die in the tank is not going to help with lowering the nutrient levels.
The rock. It would be interesting to observe where and or on which rocks the algae is growing. Even dry rock can have trapped nutrients inside.
Dont loose the faith. Your hard work will pay off in the long run.
I'd suggest checking everything you can to prevent the snail death(s). Having them die in the tank is not going to help with lowering the nutrient levels.
The rock. It would be interesting to observe where and or on which rocks the algae is growing. Even dry rock can have trapped nutrients inside.
Dont loose the faith. Your hard work will pay off in the long run.
Kolognekoral
New member
Jim,
skimmers only remove about 30% of the organics from any given water column. They are far from 100% effective, which is a good reason to use filter socks and carbon to capture additional wastes. Fortunately, they are very good at removing the dead bacteria and free-swimming algaes, which is the bulk of the 'visible' waste. Living filter feeders, such as sponges, corals, tunicates, annelids, molluscs, remove a very large amount of the finer wastes, as this is part of their diet. One of the main reasons for maintaining a diverse reef community. Also, this type of filtration/waste management allow the aquarist to maintain previously difficult creatures.
skimmers only remove about 30% of the organics from any given water column. They are far from 100% effective, which is a good reason to use filter socks and carbon to capture additional wastes. Fortunately, they are very good at removing the dead bacteria and free-swimming algaes, which is the bulk of the 'visible' waste. Living filter feeders, such as sponges, corals, tunicates, annelids, molluscs, remove a very large amount of the finer wastes, as this is part of their diet. One of the main reasons for maintaining a diverse reef community. Also, this type of filtration/waste management allow the aquarist to maintain previously difficult creatures.
fullmonti
now is the time
Well ordered 60 or so snails & 24 hermits 8 emerald crabs be here Fri
Algae grows pretty much on every thing. When it was at it worst it would grow in the strongest light & flow, to on the underside of a large flat rock, & plastic.
I didn't know that about skimmers only getting 30% of organics. I set up sump to have more flow at surface & low flow near bottom in hopes to encourage the filter feeds. So far only have the clear little tunicates. I'm surprised at the lack of sponges, been dosing sponge power for months now & have a lot of different lighting & flow areas for them to choose from.
Looks like the tissue loss has slowed or stopped on some, at least one is continuing it was small to start with so not much left. I fear I already know the answer but is there any thing that can be done to stop the STN?
Algae grows pretty much on every thing. When it was at it worst it would grow in the strongest light & flow, to on the underside of a large flat rock, & plastic.
I didn't know that about skimmers only getting 30% of organics. I set up sump to have more flow at surface & low flow near bottom in hopes to encourage the filter feeds. So far only have the clear little tunicates. I'm surprised at the lack of sponges, been dosing sponge power for months now & have a lot of different lighting & flow areas for them to choose from.
Looks like the tissue loss has slowed or stopped on some, at least one is continuing it was small to start with so not much left. I fear I already know the answer but is there any thing that can be done to stop the STN?
Kolognekoral
New member
STN and RTN are literally impossible to stop. There are cases of people fraging and saving the tips, but this is often wrought with disappointment. STN may slow and stop of its own accord, which has led many to believe (as I do) that it is a husbandry problem that can be corrected and the coral will recover in most cases. RTN is clearly associated with a pathogen/process that rapidly destroys the corals tissue. You have about 24 hours to react! And the difference between RTN and STN is not clear until after the 24 hours.
fullmonti
now is the time
Thought I'd give update.
I ended up keeping all the snails I ordered ( was going to split the order with a friend) about 120. They have cleaned the frag tank amazingly well, the fuzz is taking longer for them to eat but they are working on it.
The STN is getting worse, about 20 corals now effected. I have not changed any thing in my routine. I keep hoping the tissue loss will stop, but new corals just keep showing signs of STN. None of my corals are big so if this doesn't stop soon they will all be lost. I still can't believe some thing this bad could have been caused by simply using GFO then switching to zeo reactor, but nothing else changed or happened so that must be it.
Also can't understand how a coral can be dying in the display tank & a frag of the exact same coral in the frag tank (same system) can be totally unaffected? This hole thing makes me wonder why any of us keep sps if a relatively small mishap can set off mass destruction.
I ended up keeping all the snails I ordered ( was going to split the order with a friend) about 120. They have cleaned the frag tank amazingly well, the fuzz is taking longer for them to eat but they are working on it.
The STN is getting worse, about 20 corals now effected. I have not changed any thing in my routine. I keep hoping the tissue loss will stop, but new corals just keep showing signs of STN. None of my corals are big so if this doesn't stop soon they will all be lost. I still can't believe some thing this bad could have been caused by simply using GFO then switching to zeo reactor, but nothing else changed or happened so that must be it.
Also can't understand how a coral can be dying in the display tank & a frag of the exact same coral in the frag tank (same system) can be totally unaffected? This hole thing makes me wonder why any of us keep sps if a relatively small mishap can set off mass destruction.
Fuzzy
New member
Unless of course you decide to go external...
Here is my pic of my custom to spec made zeo reactor that sits out of sump...
Thanks to FAOIS...
[/IMG]
Why that looks like it came from the same great guy that made my Model 200 skimmer.
Looks like a road trip is in order and not just to get the Tunze upgrade :thumbsup:
plyle02
Active member
Fuzzy,
Contact John first...lol..
This was made specific to my needs, there is nothing in production, nor does he have plans, that I know of
He still has the blueprint of this design and will email you, then you just need to make any adjustments and send back. I only waited about 1 week from explaining the idea, to blueprint, to production, to final product...awesome guy!
Contact John first...lol..
This was made specific to my needs, there is nothing in production, nor does he have plans, that I know of
He still has the blueprint of this design and will email you, then you just need to make any adjustments and send back. I only waited about 1 week from explaining the idea, to blueprint, to production, to final product...awesome guy!
fullmonti
now is the time
Another update
The snails have made a big dent in the gray brown fuzz, don't know if they can wipe it out or not yet, if not I'll get some more.
Club got a phosphate meter mine was .02, I also got a dif NO3 kit. Old kit said NO3 0 new said .5. So think water is where it should be?
Red & light green slime still with me, even though nutrients still low. It doesn't seem to hurt any thing so not to worried about it for now.
STN has stopped on some & just this week a couple more has just started, few now gone, is there any way to know how long this can go on?
The snails have made a big dent in the gray brown fuzz, don't know if they can wipe it out or not yet, if not I'll get some more.
Club got a phosphate meter mine was .02, I also got a dif NO3 kit. Old kit said NO3 0 new said .5. So think water is where it should be?
Red & light green slime still with me, even though nutrients still low. It doesn't seem to hurt any thing so not to worried about it for now.
STN has stopped on some & just this week a couple more has just started, few now gone, is there any way to know how long this can go on?
fullmonti
now is the time
Well when the lights came on tonight in the frag tank I saw what looks for all the world like the start of STN on a frag that I got after the adding of GFO & trading it for the zeo reactor, which was what every one seemed to agree caused the STN. Nothing in the daily routine has changed since I got this frag, no equipment malfunctions, nothing. If it is indeed the start of STN what could have caused this ???
Kolognekoral
New member
Are you giving any amino acids or other nutrients? Your corals do need something to feed on. The current readings on NO3 and PO4 are perfect. If this is stable, then you have the right dosing of carbon. If it continues to drop, use a little bit less until you have a stabilized level. You do not want there to be NO nutrients, just very low. GFO can really deplete the water, especially with carbon dosing. I only use GFO in absolute emergencies, as it can be vey hard-core for the corals. I do not mix carbon dosing with GFO, as it always leads to problems for me.
Feeding the corals is now a part of the job. A great deal of what the corals need they will synthesise, but some aminos and the biofilm from the filter will become their main source of food. Adding a few more smaller fish or other creatures will, also, increase the available food.
That you are still seeing tissue recession (STN) is a bit puzzling. It could be a nutrient deprivation, as we previously thought, but there could be a parasite involved. Check to corals very carefully for small, almost impossible to see flat worms. There are quite a few parasites out there, which is why one typically gives new corals a dip in an iodine bath before placing them in the aquarium. I've been very lucky over the years, but I do know of aquarist that have really suffered before IDing these critters. A good fish to protect against certain parasites, especially flatworm types, is a wrasse. I use a Halichoeres melanurus, but all members of this genus are good, as are smaller Coris species. Many wrasses are possible, but I would stay away from Pseudocheilinus hexetaenia, as they are very aggressive with other fish, despite their diminutive size.
Feeding the corals is now a part of the job. A great deal of what the corals need they will synthesise, but some aminos and the biofilm from the filter will become their main source of food. Adding a few more smaller fish or other creatures will, also, increase the available food.
That you are still seeing tissue recession (STN) is a bit puzzling. It could be a nutrient deprivation, as we previously thought, but there could be a parasite involved. Check to corals very carefully for small, almost impossible to see flat worms. There are quite a few parasites out there, which is why one typically gives new corals a dip in an iodine bath before placing them in the aquarium. I've been very lucky over the years, but I do know of aquarist that have really suffered before IDing these critters. A good fish to protect against certain parasites, especially flatworm types, is a wrasse. I use a Halichoeres melanurus, but all members of this genus are good, as are smaller Coris species. Many wrasses are possible, but I would stay away from Pseudocheilinus hexetaenia, as they are very aggressive with other fish, despite their diminutive size.
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