Zeovit
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herpboyben
New member
im running it. no pics yet though. im still cycling.
Ben
Ben
I am presently running a combination DSB/Alage/Refugium tank and will be setting up a ZEOvit system. I know I need to get rid of the Algae from this tank, but can I leave the DSB? I understand that the DSB is not needed, but is it detrimental when used in conjunction with the ZEOvit system? (If so, why?)
Thanks for helping.
Thanks for helping.
Henry Bowman
Reefing since '87
The general thought with leaving a DSB and starting Zeo is this. As the nutrients in the system become lower, the DSB can actually start leaching nutrients back into the system. I started running zeo and about 8 months into it, took my DSB offline. When I did, the tank started looking better after a very short time.
My .02 cents.
bogg
New member
This is where Sponge power comes into play along with the pif and the jod complex I can adjust the depth of the blue and purples IME
How bout you? Are you still dosing Zeovit?
plyle02
Active member
I am still in the start up phase right now, have been running all my systems ULNS for 2 years now. They all have their ups and downs and ultimately requires diligence and patience for success. Not to mention close observation of impact on corals. I too like that zeovit has awesome support and seems more proven, in terms of success. After only my initial startup period and one week in, my corals seem to glow...
fullmonti
now is the time
I have an on going issue that I'm hoping you guys get get to the bottom of. I'll try to be brief but I think this will be involved. It's been like having an illness & talking with a bunch of specialist but no primary care giver to look at the hole picture.
I have 180sps tank 65 sump, frag tank, reeflo 250 skimmer, strong MH lighting & flow, set up last Nov. A local reefer was using zeo & his tank looked great so I started using it early on. Things were fine for awhile then the hair algae started up. Went to zeo site & they had me cut back on supplements & increase zeobak & star2, & add a zeo reactor. Water incredibly clear but algae unaffected! Cleaning & scrubbing went on for 3-4 months, still no affect on algae.
this is what it looked like if I didn't scrub it off for a week or so
By this time water was stripped of nutrients so much my corals colors faded! When I ask for opinions on why & what to do, most seemed to agree corals were hungry, suggested feed corals & feed fish more. So I took reactor off line started feeding corals again & fed fish a bit more. Corals look much much better but still had HA. All this time & now phosphates & nitrates test at or near 0. I think by this time zeo people got tired of all my post & question about !@#$% algae. HighlandReefer (Cliff on RC marine plants forum) very helpful & suggested when algae is this stubborn & you've tried every thing else you might want to try algaefix. I did, it killed the HA 3 doses. But it came back & Cliff said I didn't use it long enough. So I've been treating with the stuff for more than a month & it keeps coming back, (almost over night). Now it looks a bit different more like almost clear very fine fuzz.
I usually don't let it get quite this bad. I treat & scrub dead algae off & where I can't get to dead algae to scrub it off cyano now grows on dead stuff (NEVER had cyano before).
I feel like there is some thing (hopefully some thing simple) out of balance, I'm just too new at this to know what. I'll be happy to give any more details you may need, just let me know what they may be. Thanks for reading this hope it wasn't to wordy Jim
I have 180sps tank 65 sump, frag tank, reeflo 250 skimmer, strong MH lighting & flow, set up last Nov. A local reefer was using zeo & his tank looked great so I started using it early on. Things were fine for awhile then the hair algae started up. Went to zeo site & they had me cut back on supplements & increase zeobak & star2, & add a zeo reactor. Water incredibly clear but algae unaffected! Cleaning & scrubbing went on for 3-4 months, still no affect on algae.
this is what it looked like if I didn't scrub it off for a week or so
By this time water was stripped of nutrients so much my corals colors faded! When I ask for opinions on why & what to do, most seemed to agree corals were hungry, suggested feed corals & feed fish more. So I took reactor off line started feeding corals again & fed fish a bit more. Corals look much much better but still had HA. All this time & now phosphates & nitrates test at or near 0. I think by this time zeo people got tired of all my post & question about !@#$% algae. HighlandReefer (Cliff on RC marine plants forum) very helpful & suggested when algae is this stubborn & you've tried every thing else you might want to try algaefix. I did, it killed the HA 3 doses. But it came back & Cliff said I didn't use it long enough. So I've been treating with the stuff for more than a month & it keeps coming back, (almost over night). Now it looks a bit different more like almost clear very fine fuzz.
I usually don't let it get quite this bad. I treat & scrub dead algae off & where I can't get to dead algae to scrub it off cyano now grows on dead stuff (NEVER had cyano before).
I feel like there is some thing (hopefully some thing simple) out of balance, I'm just too new at this to know what. I'll be happy to give any more details you may need, just let me know what they may be. Thanks for reading this hope it wasn't to wordy Jim
Kolognekoral
New member
OK, Jim, I see what you are talking about. Actually, I think you do not have a problem, rather the system is working all too well. Those algaes are dead! What you are seeing is the remains of their structures, which will take a while to be either removed via grazers or simply breakdown. There is, also, quite a bit of bacterial film showing, which means the carbon dosing is working and a bit more than required.
What are your PO4 and NO3 parameters? What tests kit are you using? Are the corals opening fully and showing improved colour? or are the colours fading a bit? Are you using a zeolith reactor and what is the volume and the flow rate? Are you 'pumping' the reactor twice daily to release the mulm?
I think your tank has simply become too nutrient poor and the dosing of Start2 can be reduced. Keep monitoring the parameters and start dosing some nutrients, such as Amino Acids, Coral Vitalizer, Pohl's Extra, Sponge Power or similar. Start with half recommended dosages and monitor what happens over a week or two. Do not does all of these at once. Try just one or two and see what results you obtain. This is a less is more type of system.
Stay in touch,
Jamie
What are your PO4 and NO3 parameters? What tests kit are you using? Are the corals opening fully and showing improved colour? or are the colours fading a bit? Are you using a zeolith reactor and what is the volume and the flow rate? Are you 'pumping' the reactor twice daily to release the mulm?
I think your tank has simply become too nutrient poor and the dosing of Start2 can be reduced. Keep monitoring the parameters and start dosing some nutrients, such as Amino Acids, Coral Vitalizer, Pohl's Extra, Sponge Power or similar. Start with half recommended dosages and monitor what happens over a week or two. Do not does all of these at once. Try just one or two and see what results you obtain. This is a less is more type of system.
Stay in touch,
Jamie
Henry Bowman
Reefing since '87
I was thinking the same thing when I was looking at the photos, then I read your post Jamie. Great observation.
I believe that if fullmonti does not remove the dead or dying algae, he is going to have a cycle going where the dead algae fuel more algae growth by releasing p04 and trates into the system. Bad as the task may sound, if he follows your advice and backs off on Start2, cleans / scrubs / removes the dying algae, he will "win the war". Maintaining a Zeo system will help this process by keeping nutrients low in the tank as this process goes on.
Jim,
Your Liverock is the source of the P04 N03
Eventually Carbon dosing will remove it, but its going to take time. Henry is right about the alage cycling and feeding another round of outbreak. Each cycle will be less then the last, till it runs out of nutrients.
If it was my tank i would bite the bullet and remove the Live rock and cook it. Put the rock in a clean container with no light add a prodigious amount of vodka and skim the #$%^ out of it. Then I would power hose the rock with the Jet setting, releasing all the built up gunk that's in there.
I did this on my tank and I haven't seen HA in more then two years. I dose Vodka. My HA was worse then yours.
Your Liverock is the source of the P04 N03
Eventually Carbon dosing will remove it, but its going to take time. Henry is right about the alage cycling and feeding another round of outbreak. Each cycle will be less then the last, till it runs out of nutrients.
If it was my tank i would bite the bullet and remove the Live rock and cook it. Put the rock in a clean container with no light add a prodigious amount of vodka and skim the #$%^ out of it. Then I would power hose the rock with the Jet setting, releasing all the built up gunk that's in there.
I did this on my tank and I haven't seen HA in more then two years. I dose Vodka. My HA was worse then yours.
fullmonti
now is the time
OK here goes
I had stopped dosing start2 while treating the algaefix, but have started back again this last week because water clarity was down. My normal regiment is
start2 1/2 ml
zeobak 3-4 drops
AA 2 drops
CV 3-4 drops
extra 1 1/2 ml
sponge power 4 drops
all daily
I haven't been running zeo reactor or 3-4 months, not since colors went to pot. When I was using it I did the pumping, don't know exactly flow I just cut back a little on the pump that came with reactor
PO4 NO3 both 0 PO4 elos test kit NO3 ATI
Ever since I started the supplements corals color & heath PE ect good
I did get discouraged with the never ending algae & started using some GFO about a month ago. You know ever ones first remark is if you have algae you must have phosphates. At first just in baffles in sump, but ever one said would be better in a reactor so couple weeks ago put it in bulk reef supply (water filter type) reactor, with MJ1200 pump. I swear the corals colors have faded some since. So just two days ago I turned the flow down quite a bit (1/2 or less) I know GFO & zeo no no but !@$%
As for the comment the PO4 is coming from my rocks, I have wondered that very thing. Even though my corals are not large almost all are encrusted, so don't want to bust them all off to cook rocks.
I also have been gathering materials to build a algae scrubber. Though if I couldn't stop it from growing maybe I could give it a more desirable place to grow than in my display.
Well what ya think?
I had stopped dosing start2 while treating the algaefix, but have started back again this last week because water clarity was down. My normal regiment is
start2 1/2 ml
zeobak 3-4 drops
AA 2 drops
CV 3-4 drops
extra 1 1/2 ml
sponge power 4 drops
all daily
I haven't been running zeo reactor or 3-4 months, not since colors went to pot. When I was using it I did the pumping, don't know exactly flow I just cut back a little on the pump that came with reactor
PO4 NO3 both 0 PO4 elos test kit NO3 ATI
Ever since I started the supplements corals color & heath PE ect good
I did get discouraged with the never ending algae & started using some GFO about a month ago. You know ever ones first remark is if you have algae you must have phosphates. At first just in baffles in sump, but ever one said would be better in a reactor so couple weeks ago put it in bulk reef supply (water filter type) reactor, with MJ1200 pump. I swear the corals colors have faded some since. So just two days ago I turned the flow down quite a bit (1/2 or less) I know GFO & zeo no no but !@$%
As for the comment the PO4 is coming from my rocks, I have wondered that very thing. Even though my corals are not large almost all are encrusted, so don't want to bust them all off to cook rocks.
I also have been gathering materials to build a algae scrubber. Though if I couldn't stop it from growing maybe I could give it a more desirable place to grow than in my display.
Well what ya think?
fullmonti
now is the time
Are you saying I should, or if it were only possible? cause I don't have any idea how to do that.
Kolognekoral
New member
Jim,
the possibility that PO4 is stored in the rocks is very real. How old are they? I have some that are over 8 years old and they have definitely stored away some nutrients during various experiments. I have them pretty much under control at the moment, but there are occaisional burst of nutrients. Also, to paint the picture a bit clearer, I had to go away for a few months and the tank crashed in other hands. This led to a great deal of excess nutrient in the set-up. My solution was to use massive carbon dosing to attack the stored wastes. I wouldn't recommend this if sensitive corals are present. When I came back the only surviving coral was an Echinophyllia. It is still hanging in and in full recovery after some months of dosing acetic acid/ethanol mix (which is a super version of vodka/vinegar). Now, I did experience just about the same thing as you. The algae died off, but the remains did not seem to want to go away. There were occaisional spurts of algae growth, but it consistenly died away. The system was functioning, but not finished and stabile.
One question that came to mind was the Redfield ratios, which are based on the typical consumption of carbon-nitrogen-phosphorus on a reef. For every phosphorus atom one needs 16 nitrogen and 106 carbon to assimilate the waste products. So is the typical ratio. This is why carbon dosing works. Most aquariums are carbon limited (severely in most cases). This leads to the thought that, when the nitrogen is used up, but not the PO4, then we may need to dose a bit of nitrogen as well. Sounds strange, but this can work. Nitrogen limiting can stall PO4 assimilation, especially when it is stored in the rock and sand.
Now, many algaes and cyanobacteria can fix nitrogen direct from the air, which is a bit of a problem. We cannot change this fact. However, if we manage to reduce the PO4 to such a level that they cannot live, then we have one the first stretch.
As you have not used the zeolith reactor for a while, you have definitely built-up some nutrients in the rocks. This will go away, slowly, if you simply follow the current dosing. Although I am not impressed with the Elos PO4 test kit (I recommend the expensive one from Rowa), I think you have the main part of your wastes under control. I would simply sit back and wait a bit and not dose any anti-algae stuff or use GFO. Stay with the basic 3 (zeolith-zeostart2-zeobac) plus some of the others dosed non-daily in rotation. From the dosages, I take it you have about 250 gals/400l netto.
Now, the flow rate through your zeolith should be 100gal/400l per hour through 1 litre/liko of zeolith. More will strip the tank too quickly of nutrients.
As a general guide line, do not make rash, quick changes in the tank. Slow change allows the system to follow your strategy, so to speak. Simply disconnecting a filter typically leads to further mishaps, as an important part of the system has ben removed. Too rapid of an increase/decrease in carbon may collapse the system. Also, rmember that bacteria will strip the water column of waste AND oxygen, which is where many beginners make a mistake. Increasing the carbon too quickly will lead to a bacterial explosion and anoxia.
As the tank seems to be on the right road in general, you may want to add a few more corals to get things more alive. They will use some of the waste product for their metabolism, as well as benefit from the bio-film from the reactor. Also, the colour of the corals will get paler as their are fewer nutrient to feed the zooxanthellae. This is normal. The colours are actually masked by the zooxanthellae. Aminos and bio-film typically will improve the colouring in time.
Hope this helps,
Jamie
the possibility that PO4 is stored in the rocks is very real. How old are they? I have some that are over 8 years old and they have definitely stored away some nutrients during various experiments. I have them pretty much under control at the moment, but there are occaisional burst of nutrients. Also, to paint the picture a bit clearer, I had to go away for a few months and the tank crashed in other hands. This led to a great deal of excess nutrient in the set-up. My solution was to use massive carbon dosing to attack the stored wastes. I wouldn't recommend this if sensitive corals are present. When I came back the only surviving coral was an Echinophyllia. It is still hanging in and in full recovery after some months of dosing acetic acid/ethanol mix (which is a super version of vodka/vinegar). Now, I did experience just about the same thing as you. The algae died off, but the remains did not seem to want to go away. There were occaisional spurts of algae growth, but it consistenly died away. The system was functioning, but not finished and stabile.
One question that came to mind was the Redfield ratios, which are based on the typical consumption of carbon-nitrogen-phosphorus on a reef. For every phosphorus atom one needs 16 nitrogen and 106 carbon to assimilate the waste products. So is the typical ratio. This is why carbon dosing works. Most aquariums are carbon limited (severely in most cases). This leads to the thought that, when the nitrogen is used up, but not the PO4, then we may need to dose a bit of nitrogen as well. Sounds strange, but this can work. Nitrogen limiting can stall PO4 assimilation, especially when it is stored in the rock and sand.
Now, many algaes and cyanobacteria can fix nitrogen direct from the air, which is a bit of a problem. We cannot change this fact. However, if we manage to reduce the PO4 to such a level that they cannot live, then we have one the first stretch.
As you have not used the zeolith reactor for a while, you have definitely built-up some nutrients in the rocks. This will go away, slowly, if you simply follow the current dosing. Although I am not impressed with the Elos PO4 test kit (I recommend the expensive one from Rowa), I think you have the main part of your wastes under control. I would simply sit back and wait a bit and not dose any anti-algae stuff or use GFO. Stay with the basic 3 (zeolith-zeostart2-zeobac) plus some of the others dosed non-daily in rotation. From the dosages, I take it you have about 250 gals/400l netto.
Now, the flow rate through your zeolith should be 100gal/400l per hour through 1 litre/liko of zeolith. More will strip the tank too quickly of nutrients.
As a general guide line, do not make rash, quick changes in the tank. Slow change allows the system to follow your strategy, so to speak. Simply disconnecting a filter typically leads to further mishaps, as an important part of the system has ben removed. Too rapid of an increase/decrease in carbon may collapse the system. Also, rmember that bacteria will strip the water column of waste AND oxygen, which is where many beginners make a mistake. Increasing the carbon too quickly will lead to a bacterial explosion and anoxia.
As the tank seems to be on the right road in general, you may want to add a few more corals to get things more alive. They will use some of the waste product for their metabolism, as well as benefit from the bio-film from the reactor. Also, the colour of the corals will get paler as their are fewer nutrient to feed the zooxanthellae. This is normal. The colours are actually masked by the zooxanthellae. Aminos and bio-film typically will improve the colouring in time.
Hope this helps,
Jamie
Im saying if you could.
But think about it. You measure no P04 or N03 "IN THE WATER COLUMN" but you have algae growing like a weed ON THE ROCK.
Trust me when i say my rock looked worst then yours. I would have left this hobby in frustration if I hadn't cooked and cleaned my rock and started carbon dosing.
If you continue what you are doing it will eventually die off. But You may lose a few corals along the way.
To help the corals cope I would shorten the photo period of your more intense lighting.
Last edited:
fullmonti
now is the time
OK I will trade zeo reactor for GFO, guessed as much
My rocks actually came from 4 dif sources. About 30lbs LR from my old 30gal tank (no algae problem in that tank) about 100+ lbs of mined fossil rock from reefcleaners, 1 30-40lb pc dryrock from marco rock, & 100- lbs of LR from LFS but I soaked it in FW for few weeks then cleaned & set out in sun for few more weeks. Don't know if it means ant thing but algae grows equally on all. I REALLY don't want to bust up my little corals, so guess i'll just keep cleaning till IT gives up! Your right cooking it would probably be faster though.
Zedar I believe you when you say your rocks looked worse, I just wouldn't want to see that. Looking at mine is bad enough.
So thanks all, & I'll keep on keeping on. Let me know if you think of any thing else I should know. I'll let you guys know how long it takes to be algae free.
My rocks actually came from 4 dif sources. About 30lbs LR from my old 30gal tank (no algae problem in that tank) about 100+ lbs of mined fossil rock from reefcleaners, 1 30-40lb pc dryrock from marco rock, & 100- lbs of LR from LFS but I soaked it in FW for few weeks then cleaned & set out in sun for few more weeks. Don't know if it means ant thing but algae grows equally on all. I REALLY don't want to bust up my little corals, so guess i'll just keep cleaning till IT gives up! Your right cooking it would probably be faster though.
Zedar I believe you when you say your rocks looked worse, I just wouldn't want to see that. Looking at mine is bad enough.
So thanks all, & I'll keep on keeping on. Let me know if you think of any thing else I should know. I'll let you guys know how long it takes to be algae free.
fullmonti
now is the time
Meant to ask before what is Shimek's reactor? If you have a link it sounds intersting. tks
JIM
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