Zoa/paly ID project -- Open discussion for possibilities

[rtparty]

Even though some people on here don't like the name game, they need to embrace it IMO. I will never go out and spend $40/polyp on some zoanthids! That is idiotic. It is all about some guy wanting to make a quick buck.

On the other hand I like the names for a different reason. I don't want to be looking for a green center, pink skirt zoanthid. I want to call it a Pink Hippo and have someone know exactly what I am talking about. The name shouldn't dictate the price but the name should identify which morph I am looking for. Yes that morph can change in my tank but at least I will know what I am buying.

The good old days of reefing are gone! To sit here and pretend that they will be back is ludicrous.

I am a short timer compared to most on here. I started my first tank in April of 2006. I am going on 5 years in the hobby. When I started in the hobby you got a mini colony of SPS for $20 and it was full of color and life. Now you pay $75 for a freaking 1/2"! Give me a break.

I also remember visiting LFS and they would have gorgeous Welso brains for $29, $39 or $49 depending on size. The $49 brain was HUGE too. I remember my Dad buying a welso for his tank that was probably 6" around and he spent $29. The colors were awesome on it too. Now a days, the LFS can't even get that same coral for less than $60. Then they double the price so they make money.

You can thank Tyree and other coral namers for this trend and illness. This hobby doesn't have to be super expensive but people sure are preying on us.

I agree with Mucho on his points. I am someone that actually started a "named" zoanthid thread. I didn't do it so I can boast and brag about what zoanthid I got. I wanted to know if I could trust the guy. If he was lying and making stuff up, I want to know. I don't care if he names something and tries to charge more, I won't buy it from him. But if he is lying about names and origins, what else is he lying about?

Unfortunately, I think the name game is here to stay. Too many people are willing to pay the premiums. That is why I sit back and wait for that "super rare, limited edition, gold plated" coral to be fragged out and grow all over the country. That super rare just became super common and prices drop as people compete to sell them.

 

[IridescentLily]

On other forum I've created an LPS and sps care sheet database with every species of LPS and sps and their scientific names.
So I think i understand what the crux of the idea is here.
I didn't hear anyone say this idea was to be a database of caresheets by selling name like "Pink Panther".
I understood it to be a scientific list like the ones I mentioned above.

I understand the wariness about the naming game. But the difference is that with the op request, the "money name" wont be included.
Basically its the difference between listing or having a care sheet for "Hot Lava" echino, and instead listing it's scientific lfs name "echinophyllia aspera", and/or "chalice".
A pink one with inward coralites, IS a different species. Not a selling/lfs name, but scientifically it IS
different. And I think THAT is what is being thrown around as an idea.
Am I correct here Rokle?

Conversely, another example is the difference between a "Poker star" monti, an encrusting monti, a
montipora Danae species, or just sps.
These four are the same thing, and the same species, even WITHOUT the "money/lfs name".

 

[RokleM]

A pink one with inward coralites, IS a different species. Not a selling/lfs name, but scientifically it IS different. And I think that's what is being thrown as an idea.
Am I correct here Rokle?

If you guys/gals decide you want to roll with it, whatever you believe is appropriate as a collective. It could include common names, photos, scientific info, common collection area like organism posted a while back, and while lighting/tanks differ drastically... "normal" parameters that seem to promote the best heath (some like more light, some less, etc). As much or as little as you all think

Basically I just threw it out there as an option as it's been vocalized a few times, i2as kass most recently. It's up to you all if it's something you do or don't want to take on as a project and see what would best fit zoa keepers new and old in the hobby.

If you feel the resources already out there are sufficient enough, then that's fine too.

 

[IridescentLily]

A zoa example would be:
As far as zoa and palys there could be even more sublevels of detail such as:
Parazoanthus (family/genera)
Protopalythoa (species)
Palythoa (sub species)
Also, one could list one or two sub-levels further to include either the color, size or the location it comes from. For instance, we could continue the above and list further details and levels:
Pink Palythoa
small zoanthids from the phillipines.
Yellow Palythoa from Papau New Guinea.
Large green , with blue centers zoanthids from Africa
Etc.
Or something similar. These are just some examples of how some caresheets or lists might be created.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

A zoa example would be:
As far as zoa and palys there could be even more sublevels of detail such as:
Parazoanthus (family/genera)
Protopalythoa (species)
Palythoa (sub species)
Also, one could list one or two sub-levels further to include either the color, size or the location it comes from. For instance, we could continue the above and list further details and levels:
Pink Palythoa
small zoanthids from the phillipines.
Yellow Palythoa from Papau New Guinea.
Large green , with blue centers zoanthids from Africa
Etc.
Or something similar. These are just some examples of how some caresheets or lists might be created.

......and when this endless list is completed, I would humbly ask that each and every person who can name, ID, recite all of the classifications just as we've seen with these silly names, and assisted with comprising this list, would you please come back to this forum on a daily basis and contribute to a single discussion. Not post a picture, not discussions of ID's, not what is it worth and how rare it is, no, I mean actually answering the host of questions and concerns that go untouched on a daily basis. Please come back and share what you learned, pose a question, share your experience, your parameters, your gains and your misfortunes, to help someone else just watching and waiting for some assistance.

When this endless list is completed, please tell me just how many reefers new and experienced, will have gained one thing from this list that will benefit this forum or their reef tank? Everyone will know their classification, while purchasing 2 polyps cut on Monday, glued to a white plug also on Monday, then shipped across the country unhealed on Tuesday, and dead on Wednesday. This happens everyday and other major mistakes just like it. The new owner will never know why they perished this time and the next time, but he can surely tell us all about it's classification and the name someone gave it. The Zoanthid Information Draft at the top of this page has sat for years and no one has stepped up to revamp it as it can and will have an instant/immediate and direct impact for and on anyone who uses it.


Four weeks ago we were filling nearly an entire page with topics, feedback, replies and discussions. Take a look at it now, because we are avergaing 5 to 6 and sometimes 7 days of post on the first page. This and every other forum on the net is being morphed into a drive in and not a theater. Everything is eye candy, labels, titles and now classifications. If you post an in depth topic of discussion, it just sits there. I just wish we had this much interest with the main course of this forum. I wish we had as much interest with helping a newbie with some of their questions? I wish we had as much interest with some of the problem solving threads. No, but we will have another list, another table, another means to identify, debate a moot issue, while countless threads go untouched which will have an immediate and direct impact on someone's reef tank. Yes we will indeed have our classifications, but ...


Clancaster will only get one reply to his concern.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2003734



Wbdevers can't get a single reply to his thread.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2002997



Kbra84 will only receive 2 replies.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2001141



Hanoverfist will get his 2 replies

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1998845



Thank God 650 was here to answer this question.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1995064



80 views and not a single reply here

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2006222



This is nothing new, note the date in the link below. I have been saying this for 3 years now and nothing has changed.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1397338&highlight=has+spoken


So before you call me a killjoy, just know that I'm here for the cake and not the icing on top. All of these titles and labels are just that.....icing. Cake will fill you up, icing will just make you feel good.
I'm all for education, ........but the B.A comes before the M.A. I yield the floor.


:love1: Mooch

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Even though some people on here don't like the name game, they need to embrace it IMO. I will never go out and spend $40/polyp on some zoanthids! That is idiotic. It is all about some guy wanting to make a quick buck.


That would be me, yes, I hate them. Unless you plan to own every single polyp in the ocean or that is brought to market, names are only fueling the fire of these stupid high prices for a single polyp...a single polyp. As I have said before, lower the prices back to what they were and stop paying these ridiculous prices and I will lead the charge for your names. Right now the two go hand in hand.

On the other hand I like the names for a different reason. I don't want to be looking for a green center, pink skirt zoanthid. I want to call it a Pink Hippo and have someone know exactly what I am talking about.


It's funny you say that, because that is exactly how we use to sell them, with no names and often with no pictures.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208268&highlight=mucho+reef

But now they are sooo profitable, everyone needs a name. They have to have a name, to give the next guy a name who buys his first new polyp on his $ 50 two polyp frag, and the cycle continues. When I hear, "well, how will I know what I'm buy"....everyone has a picture, just look at it, it's that simple.

The name shouldn't dictate the price but the name should identify which morph I am looking for. Yes that morph can change in my tank but at least I will know what I am buying.

I agree.

The good old days of reefing are gone! To sit here and pretend that they will be back is ludicrous.

I disagree, many are saying no to this practice now. Zoanthid sales are dropping, people are tired of spending hundreds of dollars on imporperly fragged polyps only to watch them die shortly after arrival. These sellers want you to continue to say, "those old days are gone". As long as people believe that, they can continue to fill their pockets. People are tired of the lies, false hype, the shilling and the multiple names given to the same polyp.

I am a short timer compared to most on here. I started my first tank in April of 2006. I am going on 5 years in the hobby. When I started in the hobby you got a mini colony of SPS for $20 and it was full of color and life. Now you pay $75 for a freaking 1/2"! Give me a break.

Welcome to the club,

I also remember visiting LFS and they would have gorgeous Welso brains for $29, $39 or $49 depending on size. The $49 brain was HUGE too. I remember my Dad buying a welso for his tank that was probably 6" around and he spent $29. The colors were awesome on it too. Now a days, the LFS can't even get that same coral for less than $60. Then they double the price so they make money.

BINGO


You can thank Tyree and other coral namers for this trend and illness. This hobby doesn't have to be super expensive but people sure are preying on us.

Being taken to the bank

I agree with Mucho on his points. I am someone that actually started a "named" zoanthid thread. I didn't do it so I can boast and brag about what zoanthid I got. I wanted to know if I could trust the guy. If he was lying and making stuff up, I want to know. I don't care if he names something and tries to charge more, I won't buy it from him. But if he is lying about names and origins, what else is he lying about?

Unfortunately, I think the name game is here to stay. Too many people are willing to pay the premiums. That is why I sit back and wait for that "super rare, limited edition, gold plated" coral to be fragged out and grow all over the country. That super rare just became super common and prices drop as people compete to sell them.

Keep the names if you must, I can live with that, but boycott these sky high prices and per polyp sales. Yes, far too many are willing to pay these prices, most know they will get their money back many times over, that's why they do it.Yet the rest of us have to wait years for a polyp which use to be $ 1 to $ 2 per polyp, which is now $ 30 to $ 50 a polyp, to come back down to $ 10 a polyp, before we can buy it, that's utterly ridiculous. No, not me, No one will get $ 10 for a polyp from me, this is silly. I didn't call anyone silly, this practice is silly and I'm tired of it.

Mucho

 

[IridescentLily]

Mucho, if no one wants scientific information, or by color or location.
Or if many folks will use it to the exclusion of the threads about zoa husbandry, then you're right, it's not a good idea.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

If the people want it, I say do it, honestly, but at this juncture, it's a total waste of time and space. But again, as long as they all come back and contribute to the forum with that same vigor, that's all I'm saying.

Good to see you here BTW, are you back home for good? Hint Hint Hint..

Again, HINT HINT LOL :bounce3:

Miss you.

Mooch

 

[i2as kass]

Okkaayyyyy then, this is where I quit the zoanthid sub forum and stick to my Canadian reefing site. There are no "price per polyp" issues there and certainly no crusaders/ coral groupies...

Mucho honestly the reason for this:

......and when this endless list is completed, I would humbly ask that each and every person who can name, ID, recite all of the classifications just as we've seen with these silly names, and assisted with comprising this list, would you please come back to this forum on a daily basis and contribute to a single discussion

.

Is because you scare everyone away with your crazy rants, I posted a general inquiry about members coming together to create a draft of INFORMATION for the advancement of the hobby geared towards:

a venue designated for morph identification and care focusing on ease of use and discussion would really help the hobby out.

and somehow you took that and wrote pages of info on how the name game has caused the decline of your hobby... like you do with every topic...

I don't want to hear it simply because you are wrong, you restate again and again that single polyp frags are causing the death of your hobby but your not viewing this from an environmental stand point. A single $200.00 polyp frag ensures that $200.00 is taken from the market, this $200.00 could be used to buy 5 WHOLE colonies... that's 5 WHOLE colonies that stay in the ocean. Highly priced individual polyps allow people to sample the market, and promotes aquaculture at it finest. What your advocating for is cheap prices and indiscriminant harvesting of our already taxed oceans, get off your pedestal please your giving people the WRONG idea!

Do you honestly believe that someone who spends $1000 on livestock is going to cheap out on equipment and not research there purchases? Funny I don't see it mattering as:

NO two systems, no two polyps, no two situations are alike

.

Your spewing hypocrisy at it's finest, how do you promote conversation and discussion among your peers by telling them this!

and to make things worse you have a horde of followers spewing the same propaganda:

Thing is the vast majority of zoanthids have the same or similar needs, all of which can be found by searching the forums, and most don't look like the "original" in most tanks. There's no specific need for each specific zoanthid, it would just be a marketplace where everyone that has available frags posts pictures under the guise of information.

There is no such thing as a "care sheet" (or shouldn't be) for specific "named zoas and palys"... Most of them are all the same morphs under different lighting. You as a reefer are obligated to find the sweet spot for them in your system. No two systems are alike so how can u generalize care of animals that act completely different from system to system...?

It is quite frightening to me that people are too lazy to figure it out themselves with trial and error reefing. This hobby is about learning... This new generation of reefers want everything handed to them on a silver platter...

So... to revamp here's my guide to cleaning up your forums:
-Stop whining about prices, if you can't afford it don't buy it simple as that.
-Stop belittling people who promote aquaculture, saying "I don't mean for this to belittle you, followed by comments that belittle the individual results in you looking... well a little silly.

Time's are changing folks, those "$34.99" Brains are more expensive because anthropological effects are killing them all, complaining about there price increases certainly isn't going to drop the price and it certainly isn't going to bring back all the dead ones.

Let your ranting/ flaming begin!

 

[IridescentLily]

If the people want it, I say do it, honestly, but at this juncture, it's a total waste of time and space. But again, as long as they all come back and contribute to the forum with that same vigor, that's all I'm saying.

Good to see you here BTW, are you back home for good? Hint Hint Hint..

Again, HINT HINT LOL :bounce3:

Miss you.

Mooch

Contributing is the most important thing IMO also.
Husbandry conversations sre my favorite, moreso than pics.
Pics are fun for when were all just discussing zoas and how cute they are and stuff. And it's interesting to me, as a nerd, to see that some zoas have longer skirts than others. Or that kind of thing. Plus some people like lists. Some don't. I'm kinda anal or have a case of OCD because I like grouping thing and organizing and sorting.

I think I may be back for good Mucho.
Especially now that I'm actually having a tank.
And your topics here in the zoa forum are always the most interesting here to me from a husbandry standpoint.

Also, I'm gonna wanna show my new animals to folks, so I will be taking pictures of them, if/when I
get some I'll post them in the sticky thread in this section.
Meanwhile....I have to post a link to a video I took at my local fish store cuz it was too funny. I'll be right back to get and post the link...

 

[IridescentLily]

Sorry, I couldn't edit my above post and add the link to the video I took but here it is
*snort*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lOxb80-v6U&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Hello, I highly concur as my Canadian friends have informed me long ago that there are no per polyps sales and sky high prices and names in Canada.

I have no idea what "Crusaders" you are speaking of and not really sure what a "coral groupie" is.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I have no idea what thread you are speaking of, do you have a link? My reply is to ROKIE's, not you or your thread. I don't know you and don't think I have ever replied to any of your threads.

I also won't lower myself to a personal attack as you have done and I'm not offended in anyway by what you have said because it doesn't apply to me. It rings very true that whenever you tell the truth and the opposing side wants to shut you up and shut you down, they call yout reply...A RANT. Read it again please, it's my OPINION, we are all allowed to express our opinions here. You and no one else can stop anyone here from stating their opinion, in fact you only encourage me and others to do it more. I won't respond to your "scare" tactic claim.

"and somehow you took that and wrote pages of info on how the name game has caused the decline of your hobby... like you do with every topic..."

I have 3,700 post, 99% of those post are in the zoanthid forum alone, if you do a quick search, the majority are post that are helpful, you'll see that less than 1% of my threads, post and replies are relative to the name game which you have eluded to. You said, "every topic", please search on my post. Again, it appears that it is you who seems to rant untruths. "Like I do every topic"? Again, I won't reply to something which is not true sir and again, I didn;t reply to your thread, I replied to Rokie's thread, he's a moderator.

"I don't want to hear it simply because you are wrong, you restate again and again that single polyp frags are causing the death of your hobby but your not viewing this from an environmental stand point. A single $200.00 polyp frag ensures that $200.00 is taken from the market, this $200.00 could be used to buy 5 WHOLE colonies... that's 5 WHOLE colonies that stay in the ocean. Highly priced individual polyps allow people to sample the market, and promotes aquaculture at it finest. What your advocating for is cheap prices and indiscriminant harvesting of our already taxed oceans, get off your pedestal please your giving people the WRONG idea!"

Are you serious, you have absolutely no idea my friend what you're talking about. I'll explain to you in detail just how these single polyp frags often damage this hobby, not my hobby, no, I take that back, it is my hobby, a hobby that I love and it's a hobby to many others just like myself.

There are reefers who purchase a tank on Monday, set it up on Tuesday, fill it and do a quick cycle within a week, and are now adding corals within 2 weeks. Zoas which are fragged, often small frags themselves, that are now fragged day one and placed on white plugs. A picture is taken the next day, loaded to the net that night, and sold the next day. What do you think is/will happen to that frag? If you think that frag and those like it will live, you're dead wrong. More frags/polyps have suffered and died due to excessive, improper, repeatitive and premature fragging than you can possibly imagine.

Everyone selling corals is not a reefer.

Kichimark will vouche for this as I spoke to a college student in L.A. who was taken to the bank for hundreds of dollars for 12 polyps, they all died. All were one and two polyp frags, all on white plugs, it happens. I have spoken to dozens upon dozens of people who have personally contacted me with this same scenario. Don't tell me it isn't true, you may not want to admit that it is true, but it is.

Please do not tell me that you support fragging and these single poylp sales, sky high prices and the names because this spares the oceans and the enironment and you are highly concerned. If you were that concerned, you, I, none of us would even be in reefing period. That live rock in your tank came from the ocean. Those inverts in your tank came from the ocean. Those fish, unless captive breed, came from the ocean. More likely than not, the mother colonies and frags you have all came from the ocean that you seem highly concerned with now. No my concern is preservation, care on longevity of the sea life in out oceans and in aquaria.

A single $ 200 polyp frag doesn't insure a single thing but more profits in someones pocket as that same frag use to sell for $ 10 to $ 15. So your justification is, higher prices will keep more corals in the ocean? Are you serious?

"Do you honestly believe that someone who spends $1000 on livestock is going to cheap out on equipment and not research there purchases? Funny I don't see it mattering as: NO two systems, no two polyps, no two situations are alike "

LOL, friend, it happens everyday.

When I said that no two system are the same, I'm speaking of their growth, performance, coloration etc differ from tank to tank.

Your spewing hypocrisy at it's finest, how do you promote conversation and discussion among your peers by telling them this!

Again, every single thing I have stated has been stated dozens if not hundreds of times in the past 6 years by hundreds of people if not thousands here on RC and across the net.

I promote discussion by engaging people on topics other than pictures, names, sky high prices, hype and lies. I've done so with the majority of my 3,700 post since 2003.


I did it today at 3:51 when I helped this reefers.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2007061


I did it at again 12:51 pm yesterday when I engaged this reefer on his post.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2006929


I did it here when I tried to create an interactive thread for everyone

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1996129


And here, trying to make new members feel welcome.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1345903&highlight=mucho


Topics of the week.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1987470&highlight=mucho


Threads to make us think

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1987148&highlight=mucho


...and threads to just give back and while trying to help somebody.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1154238&highlight=mucho+reef


I can go on with about 3,500 more of these, there's no spewing though of propaganda as you said that I do, " with every topic", I post as you stated. This is how I try to promote discussions, engage others and draw the people in and usually it works. I am also allowed to give my opinion, just like yourself. I want everyone to take note, when someone wants to shut you down for telling the truth, this is what happens. When I and others who agree speak, it's a rant. When the oppsition speaks, well, their words are justified.

Not sure if you are aware, this topic has been discussed several times and often when these topics came up, I didn't say a word. I gave others the chance to speak up, but I didn't see you attack them.

"and to make things worse you have a horde of followers spewing the same propaganda:"

Are you serious? Honestly, you're giving me far too much credit and power. Your remarks have just offended an awful lot of people and I'm sure you will hear from them. Again, I'll have to take the high road and not reply to what you've said. You can attack me all you want, but those claims against others are completely uncalled for.


So... to revamp here's my guide to cleaning up your forums:
-Stop whining about prices, if you can't afford it don't buy it simple as that.
-Stop belittling people who promote aquaculture, saying "I don't mean for this to belittle you, followed by comments that belittle the individual results in you looking... well a little silly.


The practice is silly, I never called anyone silly, come on, be fair and quote me in the proper context.

I and no one else here or in any other forum will stop discussing this topic, if anything, you've just encouraged more of it. An opinion is that, an opinion, you call it whinning. I can afford any and everything you can afford my friend, it's not about that for me. I refuse to allow people to convince me that something is rare when I owned it 15 years ago and I know better. I'm not going to give someone more than $ 2 at the most $ 3 for any polyp and even then it is going to be a 10 poylp frag. You know, like the ones I use to sell right here on RC.

Please stop twisting my words, I didn't belittle anyone. BTW, can aquaculturing still take place at $ 1 to $ 3 per polyp or $ 15 for a frag of 10 polyps? Yes, of course it can and it did for 20 years before someone started lying about false claims of rarity, hype, LE, 1 of a kind and just discovered last week and sky high prices. But you see polyps are like gold now, and many people like yourself want to promote aquaculturing at these prices as being what's best for the ocean and the enviroment. No, it's good for profit margins right now and many don't want others to know this. I urge you to reply as I want to keep this subject at the forfront for everyone to see.


Time's are changing folks, those "$34.99" Brains are more expensive because anthropological effects are killing them all, complaining about there price increases certainly isn't going to drop the price and it certainly isn't going to bring back all the dead ones.

I agree, times are truly changing people and many eyes have been opened. Mods, I don't care how ugly this might get, please do not lock this thread. I will play nice as I have in this reply, and I also want others to hear the replies from the other side.

So, "anthrological effects", are the reason for thse sky high prices? Are you serious man?

Let your ranting/ flaming begin!

LOL, again, I don't rant and you seem very worried that I am going to flame you. Sorry that I let you down. Sir, you can't make me mad enough to launch darts back at you, and you are more than welcomed and capable to continue your direct flaming language towards me alone, and/or my horde of followers. Just still not sure who they are, can you post their names?

Lets continue this exchange, but I won't reply to any fiery darts. I also invite you back to this forum for some feedback on the many threads in this forum. Many of them have no relationship at all with the topics we're discussing now. Just trying to generate as much discussion in all of the other threads as well.


Mucho Reef

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Contributing is the most important thing IMO also.
Husbandry conversations sre my favorite, moreso than pics.
Pics are fun for when were all just discussing zoas and how cute they are and stuff. And it's interesting to me, as a nerd, to see that some zoas have longer skirts than others. Or that kind of thing. Plus some people like lists. Some don't. I'm kinda anal or have a case of OCD because I like grouping thing and organizing and sorting.

I think I may be back for good Mucho.
Especially now that I'm actually having a tank.
And your topics here in the zoa forum are always the most interesting here to me from a husbandry standpoint.

Also, I'm gonna wanna show my new animals to folks, so I will be taking pictures of them, if/when I
get some I'll post them in the sticky thread in this section.
Meanwhile....I have to post a link to a video I took at my local fish store cuz it was too funny. I'll be right back to get and post the link...

:bounce2: I'm jumping for joy that you're back :bounce3: I just can't stop jumping :bounce1:

I'm calling P.E.T.A, you are torturing those snails, LOL.

Glad to have you back, and even if we don't always agree, I'm glad we have always remained friend. Can't wait to see the new setup sis. Congrats again.....it certainly took long enough, LOL, J/King

 

[organism]

A single $200.00 polyp frag ensures that $200.00 is taken from the market, this $200.00 could be used to buy 5 WHOLE colonies... that's 5 WHOLE colonies that stay in the ocean.

Nope, notwithstanding the fact that taking corals from the wild does almost zero damage to the reef, those 5 colonies get imported anyway. Just instead of being sold as 5 colonies to hobbyists, the nicer ones go to online shops that chop shop them and sell them per polyp, there's just an extra middle man now where there wasn't one before. It contributes nothing to aquaculture nor the environment.

Even if it stopped those 5 colonies from being imported (it doesn't and never will), the only thing that $200 polyp would change is an Indonesian not being able to feed his family that week.

Time's are changing folks, those "$34.99" Brains are more expensive because anthropological effects are killing them all

mmmmmmnot even close

 

[DEEC77]

I'm really confused here. We have an ID section already where people come in and ask does this polyp have a "name". So if they need care info why not just ask there. Or perhaps while IDing, include in your answer, it's basic care.

I really don't understand how having some made up name given to a polyp is going to help you research it's care. Google Tubbs blues and you get pages of available vendors and how much they go for. While going through all the search pages you'll find a random link or 2 to a forum asking why my tubbs aren't doing well. Click on the link and you'll get a variety of deferent answers because every system is different.

A perfect example of this can be found in the thread tiled Pale zoo's. Mike I apologize in advance if I over stepped my bounds. It's not my intension to offend you. Read the whole thread lots of suggestions were given. Not one suggestion given pertained to the fact that they're called candy apple red. They could have been called Peter pipper blues and the suggestions would have been the same. The last question asked was can you put them in a different system. Mike's reply was, yes, he gave some to his brother and they're thriving. So something is going on in his system and having some made up name isn't going to help him find or solve the problem.

I for the life of me can't keep Caribbean Zoos. All my other zoos thrive They use to sell quite a few varieties. Usually pastel colors with blond skirts. Loved them but could never seem to keep them long term more then 6 months. Tried to figure out why. Came here and asked tons of questions no one knew why but others were having trouble too. We never could figure it out, so I stopped trying. . If I knew their name would that have helped?

Made up names are great to identify a particular morph and perhaps some general care tips but that all it's good for. Let's focus on solving why Mike's are randomly bleaching or why I can't keep Caribbean zoo instead of fighting over names and naming. Because in the end if someone polyps dying having a name isn't going to save them. They are just as likely to perish as the unnamed ones.

~Dee~

 

[XSharkboyX]

Your spewing hypocrisy at it's finest, how do you promote conversation and discussion among your peers by telling them this!

Easy killer... First off if you are ever going to quote me, put my name on it.

Secondly, do you realize just how many people Mucho has helped in this forum and all over the world? There are a lot of very talented reefers just like him here who do the same! Your comments (flaming mostly) were completely unnecessary...

 

[Friday Night]

First off if you have beef with Mooch take it to a PM. We dont need the Jerry Springer out in the open. We will always have Mooches back. Run along and go watch some more Ricketsreef on youtube.

 

[RokleM]

<i><br>Here at Reef Central, we believe that dialogs between participants should be conducted in a friendly and helpful manner. If you disagree with a posting, please express yourself in a way that is conducive to further constructive dialog. Conversely, when you post on any given subject, you must be willing to accept constructive criticism without posting a hostile or inflammatory response. Personal attacks of any kind will not be tolerated. Please work to insure that Reef Central remains a friendly and flame free site where everyone, especially newcomers, can feel free to post questions without fear of being unfairly criticized. Thank you for your cooperation.</i>

 

[mallorieGgator]

I started in this forum supporting the sales of named polyps. I didn't care if it was expensive. It was a supply and demand thing in my eyes. No big deal right.

My eyes have been opened however. Not to attack any websites (so I won't say the name) but a certain website was selling large colonies of zoas as WYSIWYG. Now, they have started naming these colonies and are charging $50 more for the colony than they did a few months ago. I have been buying polyps from the LFS here and gamepro_inc also probably buys "ugly" polyps from the same place I do. They aren't expensive but then again they are bland. Once I get them home, in good water quality, flow, feedings, and lighting, they are beautiful. It goes to show that even if you buy a $200 polyp it may not look as nice in your tank as it does online. It depends on the condition of the tank. We need to educate people about this so they don't get taken by people. We also need to educate on how to keep polyps so if someone does decide to pay more for something, they can keep it healthy.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy my named polyps as much as I do my unnamed ones. However, I just got a smaller frag and forgot to get them name of it. I don't even care now. They are my favorites in the tank and the name wouldn't change anything.

I see Muchos point on how this can destroy the hobby. I used to breed leopard geckos. I would breed for color combinations and buy what I liked. As I got more into the hobby a new morph came out and flooded the market. People started breeding geckos before they even understood genetics and care. This destroyed the market and the hobbyists like me. I would sell the babies to pay for the food but since people were buying geckos from mass producers who flooded the market with fancy named geckos, we had no way to support our hobby and we had to sell most of our geckos (still have our original 4). The named animals split the hobby in half and we lost a lot of experienced breeders. Do we want this to happen in our hobby?

 

[johnny]

I see 40 visitors on average in the forum who won't sign up or log in, does anyone ever wonder why?

Mucho Reef

I'm pretty sure I know exactly why... it's because of threads like this, where the OP asks a simple question and gets attacked by the mob. It happens again and again and again. If we all spent half the energy it takes to hijack all these threads to spout our anti-name game sentiments and used that energy to answer the threads Mucho is referring to, I believe we'd see this forum flourish again.

This anti-name game mob has ruined this forum... plain and simple.

Nick