Zoanthus species and associated symbionts in the Aquarium

[Fcwham]

If there are any questions about what I do or what anything might mean please let me know I'm happy to explain. I'll be writing about results in several publications for the hobby so there will be some long form, easier to read articles. The advantage here is that there can be a sort of Q and A format and often I dont know what might be interesting or confusing.

The present results are pretty cool for a number of reasons, I wonder if the deep species of symbiont is ever found associated with aquarium corals. Are there zoa colonies that seem to do particularly well at the bottom of tanks?

I know I've kept some lower but they tend to grow long stalks and were, IMO, not "happy" there.

 

[A. Grandis]

Hi Fcwham,

Okay I'll explain a bit more here. So what this plot shows is the length of one particular gene. I know from previous info that the two species differ in the number of base pairs (units of DNA) at this gene. each species has a range of sizes but the ranges are non overlaping and thus diagnostic of the species. This is one example here but there are about 8 diagnostic genes and the pattern holds across all of them.

Do they have names for those 8 diagnostic genes?
What are the units of DNA in the picture, please?
What all those numbers stand for?

Because I've collected from a large range of locations and depths I also know about the environment that the species occur in. I know that there is a switch between shallow and deep symbionts at 4m. So judging from that info, these zoanthids currently have the shallow associated symbiont. I would expect that if they were put in low light they (light environment that is more consistent with depths of 10m-30m) they would be initially stressed, compensate by stretching upwards and perhaps switching to the lower light symbiont over a longer period of time.

So, generally speaking, relating to the subject, shallow would be considered from surface down to 4m? Than after 4m would be considered deep and between 10m- 30m are what we could refer to the "low light symbionts". I would think you are talking about that particular species of the plot's sample?

Have you taken any PAR readings of the area where you've collected them? How could we relate the deepness/ availability of light to our systems? Any simple key for that? There are lots of variable there, I would think, and therefore almost impossible to really hit the numbers. I just wonder if you would have a record of those in situ PAR values. It would be a great beginning to figure out the relationship between zooxanthellae/ zoanthids. Other light measurements would help as well.

So they would stretch upwards because of the symbiont alone, not other influences? Could you talk a bit about the protective pigments (vitamins, etc.) Do they play with the symbiont as well? Nutrients/ pigments in the water?

I've seen the very same species of Zoanthus sp. in a range between 2 - 35 feet (0.61 - 10.7m) in a particular geographic area. They vary in colors, but the variation does happen independent of how deep they are found. Could you comment on that?

Is each particular species of zoanthids responding differently in regards to zooxanthellae and to the deepness they are found?

Thanks,
Grandis.

 

[A. Grandis]

Also, the organisms are diploid, meaning they have two copies of each gene, just like you and me. So in some cases they have 2 copies of the same length and it looks like one peak (plots 2 and 3) in other cases they have 2 different copies (plots 1 and 4) coming from mom and dad.

finally, i might also note that if you look at plot one there seem to be 3 or 4 peaks but actually there are just 2, the smaller ones come from errors made by the enzyme during the replication step that I did inside the machine I took a picture of one page back

Very interesting!!!!!
Thanks,
Grandis.

 

[A. Grandis]

If there are any questions about what I do or what anything might mean please let me know I'm happy to explain. I'll be writing about results in several publications for the hobby so there will be some long form, easier to read articles. The advantage here is that there can be a sort of Q and A format and often I dont know what might be interesting or confusing.

The present results are pretty cool for a number of reasons, I wonder if the deep species of symbiont is ever found associated with aquarium corals. Are there zoa colonies that seem to do particularly well at the bottom of tanks?

I know I've kept some lower but they tend to grow long stalks and were, IMO, not "happy" there.

I've been paying attention to that for years. I know there are some zoanthids that would prefer indirect light and others that would do really good in stronger direct light (different species). Some others would do great in any type of light, with faster adaptation abilities. I do know that, generally speaking, all the zoanthids I've kept could be adapted to basically any type of light I've used in the past or direction in the tank, if given enough time for them to adapt. Generally speaking, I can say that the more light the better, following a common sense of the natural environment they came from. Most of the zoanthids I've collected were from shallow waters (less then 20 feet, 6.1m) and therefore it is a little hard to judge because of that.
Another very important point is the water motion and chemistry, besides light.
There are too many variables and the species are really different in their preferences. To find the common denominator is almost impossible, if you keep a good number of different species.

I can only speak for shallow water Hawaiian zoanthids.

I also would believe that most of the zoanthids in the aquarium trade would come from shallow water as well and so that would be truth for most of them, but that is only my assumption.

Virtually all zoanthids I've kept could be placed on the bottom of the tank or right at the surface without any major differences, probably because of where they came from.

I would think that other qualities are responsible for their healthy appearance, meaning also their reproduction/ growth rates, than light alone. I do believe that they would use their absorption abilities in the ocean and not rely on their symbionts for their metabolism. I do see changes in my colonies when I target feed them quality food and offer excellent water qualities. Other observation in closed systems are the availability of certain elements, like iodine and other parameters like alkalinity and salinity. Such observations were noticed during long periods of time through the past 18 years or so.

Just my $.02.

Please keep us posted!!!:bounce3:

Grandis.

 

[A. Grandis]

Good morning...

I just want to add that zoanthids in general are well known for their empty guts when collected from the wild. Papers and personal experiences tell me that.

That would probably mean that we shouldn't feed them when in closed systems, if our tanks had the same amount of dissolved nutrients for their absorption needs, besides appropriate light.

My understand is that when they are target fed with small amounts of quality food (selected nutritious particles), and even broadcast fed (using their absorption abilities) in closed systems they behave and grow/reproduce more likely when found in the ocean.

So probably a stable feeding regimen would replace/hep with their complementary natural absorption needs?

When not fed at all, having only light and minor left over food from fishes or so, they tend to get week during the course of months/years and actually recede and even melt sometimes. I would think they are more vulnerable to bacterial infection also and other pathogens due to a weaker metabolism and/or immune system. All that happens in long period of time.

That would somehow depend also on the percentage of colonies in the tank (number of polyps per water volume).

That is true to almost every single Hawaiian species I keep. I've heard similar stories from other hobbyists in other parts of the world with zoas from many places as well.

This is not to take us away from the main subject here and not to open any substantial discussion on the side topic, but to point out what I feel about their symbionts' play with their nutrient contribution to the zoas.

So basically what is in here:
1) Zoas would need their absorption abilities in the ocean besides nutrients from zooxanthellae.
2) Zoas would need to get those constant nutrients (normally absorbed from the ocean water) through target feeding and broadcast feeding in closed systems besides good quality light, because of the lack of constant availability of those absorbed nutrients when in the aquarium (filtration/export).

That could probably have some interference with the zoanthids'/zooxanthellae abilities to adapt to the different artificial lights and the confines of our tanks in the long run.

Please feel free to expose your thoughts on that too, if you want.

I know there are lots of questions! Please take your time...

Grandis.

 

[Fcwham]

I'll try to bite chunks off here with regards to the questions

Do they have names for those 8 diagnostic genes?
Yes they are the genes I published in http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12526-013-0150-y
I can email a copy if you want to read some of the details
What are the units of DNA in the picture, please? That's the number of base pairs, the number of ATGC in the sequence
What all those numbers stand for?
This may be a good reference for the genes I use here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsatellite

 

[Fcwham]

"So, generally speaking, relating to the subject, shallow would be considered from surface down to 4m? Than after 4m would be considered deep and between 10m- 30m are what we could refer to the "low light symbionts". I would think you are talking about that particular species of the plot's sample?"

-Grandis

Reply:
From my depth transects and James' publications I would divide the photic zones for Z. sansibaricus into the following:

Intertidal, sun and desiccation exposed (shallow clade C symbiont and Clade A Symbiont)

Intertidal, un-exposed shade protected (shallow clade C symbiont only)

Shallow sub-tidal, 0-4m bellow low-tide mark (shallow clade C symbiont only, but Zoas are very rare)

Deep sub-tidal, 4m and deeper (deep clade C symbiont only)

Deep colonies peak in abundance between 7m and 20m below the low tide mark.

While I can not find a record of PAR reading in this area my research from other publications would suggest that in nature the PAR values could range above 600 in all shallow and intertidal locations. That being said, in our tanks PAR values of 200+ might be adequate.

It is interesting to me that the symbionts in the Zoas I've just sequenced correspond to Shallow water symbionts, when the PAR values in aquariums might be more close to the deep collection sites. I'll reserve judgment until I've analyzed more but its interesting that so far, aquarium zoas are growing as if they were in a shallow environment.

 

[Fcwham]

"I've seen the very same species of Zoanthus sp. in a range between 2 - 35 feet (0.61 - 10.7m) in a particular geographic area. They vary in colors, but the variation does happen independent of how deep they are found. Could you comment on that?"

Yes, from my research all zoas of the same species are mating with one another with equal frequency so there is no genetic division between deep and shallow colonies. Because color is mostly genetically determined, other than shades and hues brought on by symbiodinium density, color of zoa polyps should be completely random with respect to depth.

 

[A. Grandis]

I'll try to bite chunks off here with regards to the questions

Do they have names for those 8 diagnostic genes?
Yes they are the genes I published in http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12526-013-0150-y
I can email a copy if you want to read some of the details
What are the units of DNA in the picture, please? That's the number of base pairs, the number of ATGC in the sequence
What all those numbers stand for?
This may be a good reference for the genes I use here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsatellite

Thanks very much. I can understand a bit better.
Grandis.

 

[A. Grandis]

"So, generally speaking, relating to the subject, shallow would be considered from surface down to 4m? Than after 4m would be considered deep and between 10m- 30m are what we could refer to the "low light symbionts". I would think you are talking about that particular species of the plot's sample?"

-Grandis

Reply:
From my depth transects and James' publications I would divide the photic zones for Z. sansibaricus into the following:

Intertidal, sun and desiccation exposed (shallow clade C symbiont and Clade A Symbiont)

Intertidal, un-exposed shade protected (shallow clade C symbiont only)

Shallow sub-tidal, 0-4m bellow low-tide mark (shallow clade C symbiont only, but Zoas are very rare)

Deep sub-tidal, 4m and deeper (deep clade C symbiont only)

Deep colonies peak in abundance between 7m and 20m below the low tide mark.

While I can not find a record of PAR reading in this area my research from other publications would suggest that in nature the PAR values could range above 600 in all shallow and intertidal locations. That being said, in our tanks PAR values of 200+ might be adequate.

It is interesting to me that the symbionts in the Zoas I've just sequenced correspond to Shallow water symbionts, when the PAR values in aquariums might be more close to the deep collection sites. I'll reserve judgment until I've analyzed more but its interesting that so far, aquarium zoas are growing as if they were in a shallow environment.

That's so interesting!
And they probably have particular differences from species to species, right?
Do you know the correspondent scientific names for each symbiont clade?

Thanks,
Grandis.

 

[A. Grandis]

"I've seen the very same species of Zoanthus sp. in a range between 2 - 35 feet (0.61 - 10.7m) in a particular geographic area. They vary in colors, but the variation does happen independent of how deep they are found. Could you comment on that?"

Yes, from my research all zoas of the same species are mating with one another with equal frequency so there is no genetic division between deep and shallow colonies. Because color is mostly genetically determined, other than shades and hues brought on by symbiodinium density, color of zoa polyps should be completely random with respect to depth.

Is there symbiont transfer from the parents with sexual reproduction?
If so, the type of symbiont will change if there is sexual reproduction when the colony settles on a substrate of different depth of the parents? Is that basically how that works?
Where does the symbiont is passed from (eggs, sperm, both)?
This is just great!!!

Grandis.

 

[Fcwham]

They do transfer symbionts to their offspring but early settlement is a fairly plastic time for symbiosis so after settlement they probably take up lots of zoax from the environment. If the environment is different than their parents then the new zoax will win out by competition.

Is there symbiont transfer from the parents with sexual reproduction?
If so, the type of symbiont will change if there is sexual reproduction when the colony settles on a substrate of different depth of the parents? Is that basically how that works?
Where does the symbiont is passed from (eggs, sperm, both)?
This is just great!!!

Grandis.

 

[Fcwham]

That's so interesting!
And they probably have particular differences from species to species, right?
Do you know the correspondent scientific names for each symbiont clade?

Thanks,
Grandis.

Yes that profile is for Z.sansibaricus I'd think other zoanthids would have different profiles, however to my knowledge Z.sansibaricus is the only one with such a wide depth distribution

Do you know the correspondent scientific names for each symbiont clade?

Clade = Genus, the taxonomy of Symbiodinium is my main research focus and its currently being worked out. For now there are no scientific names just letter number designations serving as place holders until a full name is given but that process is painfuly slow and there are 100's of species that need to be named.

 

[Fcwham]

"So basically what is in here:
1) Zoas would need their absorption abilities in the ocean besides nutrients from zooxanthellae.
2) Zoas would need to get those constant nutrients (normally absorbed from the ocean water) through target feeding and broadcast feeding in closed systems besides good quality light, because of the lack of constant availability of those absorbed nutrients when in the aquarium (filtration/export).

That could probably have some interference with the zoanthids'/zooxanthellae abilities to adapt to the different artificial lights and the confines of our tanks in the long run.

Please feel free to expose your thoughts on that too, if you want."
-Grandis

I agree for sure, the symbionts are able to provide %90-100 of their carbon needs in the form of sugar and also supply lipids and amino acids. However if you give them extra they can send those resources toward growth.

On a reef they probably are only getting a small amount of food in the form of plankton, I'd think that most of it comes from dissolved organic matter and detritus around the polyps.

In nature most colonies are just surviving, in our tanks we'd like for them to thrive. So emulating nature isn't always the goal.

 

[A. Grandis]

They do transfer symbionts to their offspring but early settlement is a fairly plastic time for symbiosis so after settlement they probably take up lots of zoax from the environment. If the environment is different than their parents then the new zoax will win out by competition.

Yep, that's kinda what I had in mind after the past posts.
The adaptation to the new environment, where the new colony will settle, will depend on the type of zooxanthellae they need to cultivate, per say. The transferred zooxanthellae are just to make sure they have some start to produce the initial energy, to their primary development.

Just wanted to know if you had any info of how exactly they pass those symbionts.
I guess it would be through eggs and sperms (bundles).

Thanks!
Grandis.

 

[A. Grandis]

Yes that profile is for Z.sansibaricus I'd think other zoanthids would have different profiles, however to my knowledge Z.sansibaricus is the only one with such a wide depth distribution

Do you know the correspondent scientific names for each symbiont clade?

Clade = Genus, the taxonomy of Symbiodinium is my main research focus and its currently being worked out. For now there are no scientific names just letter number designations serving as place holders until a full name is given but that process is painfuly slow and there are 100's of species that need to be named.

Thanks for the clarification on "clades". I was confused by the term, it could be refereed to all zoanthids in some cases, I guess.
That's another really exciting subject (species of zooxanthellae)!!!
Please keep working hard on that!
It's so important to determinate their symbionts, once we understand their close relationship and abilities for the mutual survival.

I really thank you!! Please keep us posted on that too!!

Grandis.

 

[A. Grandis]

"So basically what is in here:
1) Zoas would need their absorption abilities in the ocean besides nutrients from zooxanthellae.
2) Zoas would need to get those constant nutrients (normally absorbed from the ocean water) through target feeding and broadcast feeding in closed systems besides good quality light, because of the lack of constant availability of those absorbed nutrients when in the aquarium (filtration/export).

That could probably have some interference with the zoanthids'/zooxanthellae abilities to adapt to the different artificial lights and the confines of our tanks in the long run.

Please feel free to expose your thoughts on that too, if you want."
-Grandis

I agree for sure, the symbionts are able to provide %90-100 of their carbon needs in the form of sugar and also supply lipids and amino acids. However if you give them extra they can send those resources toward growth.

On a reef they probably are only getting a small amount of food in the form of plankton, I'd think that most of it comes from dissolved organic matter and detritus around the polyps.

In nature most colonies are just surviving, in our tanks we'd like for them to thrive. So emulating nature isn't always the goal.

Good to hear that from you. Thanks for the reply. :beer:
Yep, things get very different in our closed systems, don't they?
Target feeding is just another way we can help them growing and to supply the extra energy they get from some of the organisms they ingest, specially at night, and unfortunately we don't have in our systems. Besides that, I noticed the quality of the target feeding food and the amount is what determinate their health and reproduction/ growth rates, specially. They don't actually need too much food as a supplementary diet. That's a fact with all Hawaiian zoas I've kept, no exceptions, and I would believe that is also a fact with many other zoanthid species around the world, if not all, when maintained in traditional closed systems.

Please let me know what do you know about their absorption abilities in the wild collected zoanthids, and your personal observations/ experiences with additives in closed systems. I believe that would have some effects on zooxanthellae population as well.

Great topic!!!!
:bounce3::bounce1::bounce2:

Cheers,
Grandis.

 

[Fcwham]

Article now online. Hope everyone finds it informative.
http://www.reefsmagazine.com/forum/reefs-magazine/150011-identify-zoanthids.html

 

[A. Grandis]

That's so great!
Thanks very much!

Grandis.

 

[A. Grandis]

Article now online. Hope everyone finds it informative.
http://www.reefsmagazine.com/forum/reefs-magazine/150011-identify-zoanthids.html

The text is so very informative and what we needed at this time! The images are beautiful!! What can I say?
That's a great beginning for all of us and hopefully the starting point to a further aquarium zoanthid identification reference!

I love the simplicity and the serious info in the article.

You did a wonderful job and please keep us updated with the good news!
Now everyone will have access to the key of zoanthid identification.

Thanks again, Wham!
Well done!!!

:beer:
Grandis.