A. Grandis
Active member
Still waiting for the pics...
:strange:
Grandis.
:strange:
Grandis.
Zoanthus species and associated symbionts in the Aquarium
- Thread starter Fcwham
- Start date
A. Grandis
Active member
:thumbsup:
benjaminspades
New member
:hammer:Can't wait!
Fcwham
New member
All the samples with DNA extracted
DNA in water, its mostly water but there's plenty of clean DNA in there, just need to read it
Loading them up to make lots of copies of each gene I'm going to read
DNA duplicating machine, this guy makes billions of copies for me
I should get some results in an email tomorrow, with some luck everything will have worked on the first go. Should be able to make some comments about the results as soon as I get them.
DNA in water, its mostly water but there's plenty of clean DNA in there, just need to read it
Loading them up to make lots of copies of each gene I'm going to read
DNA duplicating machine, this guy makes billions of copies for me
I should get some results in an email tomorrow, with some luck everything will have worked on the first go. Should be able to make some comments about the results as soon as I get them.
A. Grandis
Active member
Oh yeah! Good job, Fcwham!!
Thanks very much for the pics.
We'll be waiting for your comments...
Cheers,
Grandis.
Thanks very much for the pics.
We'll be waiting for your comments...
Cheers,
Grandis.
Fcwham
New member
I dug up this old post today. Funny that the confusion persists even now 7 years later.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=822392
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=822392
Fcwham
New member
Results!!
Here is a picture of one of the many markers I look at, this one corresponds to the symbiont.
There are 4 plots here, the top 2 are "wild collected" the bottom two are from BenjaminSpades aquarium.
The first one is collected from a deep location the second is from a shallow/intertidal collection. Shallow collections have scores in the 100-114 range, Deep collections have scores in the 130's just as these two examples.
You can clearly see that the ones from the aquarium have the shallow associated score and this is repeated across several genes that are not represented here.
Take home message #1: Iron man, Radio active dragon eyes, Donatello, Mint Green, and Mirage all have symbionts associated with coming from the intertidal zone. They should be photo adapted for high light.
Take home message #2:From what I can tell, they all have symbionts that originating in the Pacific Ocean so my provisional ID for these is Iron man and Radio active dragon eyes = Z. sansibaricus and the others = Z. gigantus, I'll be doing more tests this week that will increase my confidence in this, but for now I'm feeling fairly certain.
Here is a picture of one of the many markers I look at, this one corresponds to the symbiont.
There are 4 plots here, the top 2 are "wild collected" the bottom two are from BenjaminSpades aquarium.
The first one is collected from a deep location the second is from a shallow/intertidal collection. Shallow collections have scores in the 100-114 range, Deep collections have scores in the 130's just as these two examples.
You can clearly see that the ones from the aquarium have the shallow associated score and this is repeated across several genes that are not represented here.
Take home message #1: Iron man, Radio active dragon eyes, Donatello, Mint Green, and Mirage all have symbionts associated with coming from the intertidal zone. They should be photo adapted for high light.
Take home message #2:From what I can tell, they all have symbionts that originating in the Pacific Ocean so my provisional ID for these is Iron man and Radio active dragon eyes = Z. sansibaricus and the others = Z. gigantus, I'll be doing more tests this week that will increase my confidence in this, but for now I'm feeling fairly certain.
Last edited:
benjaminspades
New member
"Take home message #1: Iron man, Radio active dragon eyes, Donatello, Mint Green, and Mirage all have symbionts associated with coming from the intertidal zone. They should be photo adapted for high light. "
What would be considered high light? What par would you put them at? How do I know how much is too much light?
What would be considered high light? What par would you put them at? How do I know how much is too much light?
Fcwham
New member
That's a great question, if you look at the figure on page 180 of Delbeek and Sprung you can see the PAR levels measured by Dustan (My masters advisor 
the first graph represents PAR at 4m, peaks at 1,000 and holds steady around 800 most of the day. In the text there are references to light measurements on other coral reefs but that's in LUX. I'll look for some more PAR references.
As for the zoax, I've never found this species below 4m so those numbers seem like a good starting point.
The level they are found at and optimal may not be equal values though.
I'll do some more research to better answer your question
the first graph represents PAR at 4m, peaks at 1,000 and holds steady around 800 most of the day. In the text there are references to light measurements on other coral reefs but that's in LUX. I'll look for some more PAR references. As for the zoax, I've never found this species below 4m so those numbers seem like a good starting point.
The level they are found at and optimal may not be equal values though.
I'll do some more research to better answer your question
A. Grandis
Active member
Oh, how nice is that?!! Thank you very much for the picture and input!!!
Would you be able to give us more info on the two different environments ("wild collected"/aquarium).
Wild colony: It would be great to have detailed info, like where the wild collected ones were precisely from and specially how deep, perhaps water flow (surge zone/ lagoon type), close to a river, water temperature, etc...
Aquarium: Type of lights used, flow, filtration, temp, tests, PAR, skimmer, maintenance schedule, feeding regimen, etc...
I just think that would be great to have those data to follow the studies.
How important should they be? Perhaps on the zooxanthellae population and growth rates/ metabolism/ reproduction.
Question: Do you think that the very same species could live and show healthy growth and reproduction rates in both environments? Colors would vary ("morph"), but adaptation would follow. Also, deepness is relative, once there is a range for all different species of organisms to survive in the ocean, specially cnidarians. There are ranges of deepness for many species of corals for example, and I would think the same happens to most zoanthids. That said, I would be very interested to know how exactly deep were the colonies, if possible. I hope you would understand my point here. Please post your perspective on that.
Thanks so much for your time and effort!
Grandis.
Results!!
Here is a picture of one of the many markers I look at, this one corresponds to the symbiont.
There are 4 plots here, the top 2 are "wild collected" the bottom two are from BenjaminSpades aquarium.
Would you be able to give us more info on the two different environments ("wild collected"/aquarium).
Wild colony: It would be great to have detailed info, like where the wild collected ones were precisely from and specially how deep, perhaps water flow (surge zone/ lagoon type), close to a river, water temperature, etc...
Aquarium: Type of lights used, flow, filtration, temp, tests, PAR, skimmer, maintenance schedule, feeding regimen, etc...
I just think that would be great to have those data to follow the studies.
How important should they be? Perhaps on the zooxanthellae population and growth rates/ metabolism/ reproduction.
Well that's a really interesting find and how happy I am to learn that!!! Thanks for the numbers!! What are those numbers standing for, please?
Question: Do you think that the very same species could live and show healthy growth and reproduction rates in both environments? Colors would vary ("morph"), but adaptation would follow. Also, deepness is relative, once there is a range for all different species of organisms to survive in the ocean, specially cnidarians. There are ranges of deepness for many species of corals for example, and I would think the same happens to most zoanthids. That said, I would be very interested to know how exactly deep were the colonies, if possible. I hope you would understand my point here. Please post your perspective on that.
I'm amazed and very interested on the subject. Thanks for the post!!
Well, I'm sorry but it is still very hard for me to follow the cartoon names. I searched for "Iron Man zoanthids" and there were many different types and colors, so it's basically impossible for me to know what you are referring to. It would be great if you could post pictures of the species with their relative cartoon names, please. I would love to see what we're talking about here.
Again, I would like very much to see pictures of what were those polyps, if possible. I'll be waiting for the updates on the further tests this week.
Thanks so much for your time and effort!
Grandis.
A. Grandis
Active member
A. Grandis
Active member
I appreciate.
Thank you.
Grandis.
Thank you.
Grandis.
Fcwham
New member
Results!!
Here is a picture of one of the many markers I look at, this one corresponds to the symbiont.
There are 4 plots here, the top 2 are "wild collected" the bottom two are from BenjaminSpades aquarium.
The first one is collected from a deep location the second is from a shallow/intertidal collection. Shallow collections have scores in the 100-114 range, Deep collections have scores in the 130's just as these two examples.
You can clearly see that the ones from the aquarium have the shallow associated score and this is repeated across several genes that are not represented here.
Take home message #1: Iron man, Radio active dragon eyes, Donatello, Mint Green, and Mirage all have symbionts associated with coming from the intertidal zone. They should be photo adapted for high light.
Take home message #2:From what I can tell, they all have symbionts that originating in the Pacific Ocean so my provisional ID for these is Iron man and Radio active dragon eyes = Z. sansibaricus and the others = Z. gigantus, I'll be doing more tests this week that will increase my confidence in this, but for now I'm feeling fairly certain.
Okay I'll explain a bit more here. So what this plot shows is the length of one particular gene. I know from previous info that the two species differ in the number of base pairs (units of DNA) at this gene. each species has a range of sizes but the ranges are non overlaping and thus diagnostic of the species. This is one example here but there are about 8 diagnostic genes and the pattern holds across all of them.
Because I've collected from a large range of locations and depths I also know about the environment that the species occur in. I know that there is a switch between shallow and deep symbionts at 4m. So judging from that info, these zoanthids currently have the shallow associated symbiont. I would expect that if they were put in low light they (light environment that is more consistent with depths of 10m-30m) they would be initially stressed, compensate by stretching upwards and perhaps switching to the lower light symbiont over a longer period of time.
Fcwham
New member
Also, the organisms are diploid, meaning they have two copies of each gene, just like you and me. So in some cases they have 2 copies of the same length and it looks like one peak (plots 2 and 3) in other cases they have 2 different copies (plots 1 and 4) coming from mom and dad.
finally, i might also note that if you look at plot one there seem to be 3 or 4 peaks but actually there are just 2, the smaller ones come from errors made by the enzyme during the replication step that I did inside the machine I took a picture of one page back
finally, i might also note that if you look at plot one there seem to be 3 or 4 peaks but actually there are just 2, the smaller ones come from errors made by the enzyme during the replication step that I did inside the machine I took a picture of one page back
