A take on BB methodology.

[photobarry]

Nobody uses sand in their animal maintenance systems out here. And I've seen people keeping everything from tunicates and colonial anemonies to urchins to sharks and other fish.

Although, we did have a system in our lab that used a deep mud-bed. It was for keeping clams found in mud collected from the sewage oufall of LA. (I'm glad I wasn't around when they collected those suckers!)

 

[photobarry]

Oddly, I have been struggling with RTN/STN in my 5 month old BB system. I checked every aspect that I can think of (cal, alk, mag, po4, no3, PH, stray electrical current) and everything tests normal. I don't have an explanation why I am losing many corals, there are many different reasons why that could be, but in 2 years of running a DSB tank I only lost 1 coral.

If you have clean water, resonable light levels, and decent flow; your corals should be fine. One of those parameters must be off, and it is most likely water quality. I have seen dieing corals put into a tank with clean water recover and start coloring up and growing within 10 days. (And the light and flow weren't optimal.) Something must be going on with your water. And it can sometimes be a PITA to figure out what.

 

[jackson6745]

Barry I am pretty sure my water is clean. My p04 is .02, no3 is undectable. I get a slight haze of algae on the front glass after 5-7 days. You're not kidding it can be a PITA!

 

[AlgaeMan]

Are your acros rtning or stning?

 

[photobarry]

How is the stability of your parameters. Also, how are you measuring salinity? (I noticed you didn't list it.) I had a friend taking care of my tank while I was away and somehow the refractometer lost it's calibration and the tank ended up being run at over 1.030 for a month. It was definitely a PITA figuring out why the corals weren't doing well. Until I double checked the salinity with an old hydrometer and noticed it was off the scale!

 

[Bomber]

Richard are they going bottom up or top down?

 

[jackson6745]

Algae man most corals are stning and some rtn (about a dozen in all)

Salinity is measure by refractometer and is 1.025. I will recalibrate it now to double check.

 

[jackson6745]

Bomber,

Going Bottom up

 

[Bomber]

Have you had the chance to crack one open and look at it? Is it green on the inside?

 

[greenbean36191]

Our systems have been up and running since the late 50's. Sometimes they are closed, sometimes they get a water change. Open or closed systems really have nothing to do with it. It does not matter if you get detritus out by skimming or siphoning with water changes, as long as you accomplish the same end result.

How long have there been SPS growing continuously in any of those systems though. It's easy to say there has been a tank running BB for years with no problems, but unless it's been used for the same application, using the same methods used in the hobby there really isn't much of a comparison. Being an open system does matter. If like some people say the system is too sterile then having an open system makes all the difference in the world.
Like I said, I've personally seen tanks with sandbeds that have been growing SPS continuously and packed with fish for 15+ years and they have no nutrient problems. Are they comparable to a hobbyist tank though? No. They use different equipment and flow through systems. It's not the same method people in the hobby are using. Those tanks are not a good judge of the long term effects of using a sandbed in a closed sytem. A research tank growing Montastrea in a flow through system for 2 years at a time isn't any better indicator of the long term effects of a BB system.

What can't a BB system get out that a DSB can?

Nothing. I never said their was. I never said I had a preference one way or the other. I really don't. What I'm trying to show is that even the legendary BB isn't as perfect as some people think it is, and the long term effects really aren't known.

Oh, I thought bean was saying since there are some sinks in the tank anyway, you might as well have a HUGE one.

No, I was just pointing out that people keep saying things like "there is no nutrient time bomb" or "my BB can run forever." It can't. The rocks are still trapping nutrients ever so slowly unless your tank is 100% efficient. There will come a day when even a BB tank will have nutrient problems.

 

[Weatherman]

Unless you eliminate the sand all together and don't have a place to store and leak it.

It was their extrapolation I thought amusing, almost as if the implication was that as the depth of the sand approached zero the death rate approached infinity.

 

[jackson6745]

Have you had the chance to crack one open and look at it? Is it green on the inside?

I just pulled my red table out of the garbage and craked it open. Around the edges was white inside but when I cracked closer to the base it was green,

 

[Bomber]

That's what I thought. Corals are just live rock with a thin layer of living tissue over it. Coral skelotons act the same way live rock acts it that they can wick up nutrients, like live rock wicks up nutrients when it's sitting in dirty sand.

Did you cook your rocks?

 

[photobarry]

That's an indication that phosphate is getting sucked from the rock into your corals. Did you "cook" your rock prior to going BB?

 

[photobarry]

That's what I thought. Corals are just live rock with a thin layer of living tissue over it. Coral skelotons act the same way live rock acts it that they can wick up nutrients, like live rock wicks up nutrients when it's sitting in dirty sand.

Did you cook your rocks?

DOH! You beat me too it! LOL

 

[Bomber]

, I was just pointing out that people keep saying things like "there is no nutrient time bomb" or "my BB can run forever." It can't. The rocks are still trapping nutrients ever so slowly unless your tank is 100% efficient. There will come a day when even a BB tank will have nutrient problems.

LOL yes BB tanks can go on forever. There is no sink, rocks shed.

If they didn't cooking rocks wouldn't work. They would just sit there and not produce detritus.

Read Sean's "rock cooking" thread in the Advanced Forum and then get back to us.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=485572

 

[jackson6745]

I cooked about 75% of my rock but the other 25% was store bought "cured" rock. SO if this waste is coming from my rock and being sucked up by my corals, what can I do to help prevent this? I have Big skimmer, do water changes, run micron bags.....

 

[Bomber]

DOH! You beat me too it! LOL

What's a " skeloton " ? lol

 

[Bomber]

I cooked about 75% of my rock but the other 25% was store bought "cured" rock. SO if this waste is coming from my rock and being sucked up by my corals, what can I do to help prevent this? I have Big skimmer, do water changes, run micron bags.....

Seal them real good with SuperGlue before you mount them.

 

[photobarry]

What's a " skeloton " ? lol

That's that thing that you find in fish tanks, that's about yea' big around and has the little things hanging off it. Oh, and sometimes it's sticky. ROTFL