Achilles Tang Primer

[Alex T.]

Again, putting an Achilles in hyposalinity is a bad idea. If you've never had one, you'll never know. With a specific gravity of 1.026 - 1.027 they thrive. Drop it to FOWLR levels of 1.022 - 1.023 and they suffer. Hyposalinity with an Achilles is almost a sure way to weaken and possibly kill the fish. IMO Coppersafe is a much safer alternative to hyposalinity.

 

[mcoomer]

My name is Mike and I'm an addict. I really didn't need to drop 2 bills on another fish but I couldn't help myself. When my local shop said they were getting one in I told the owner I'd buy it before it was even out of the shipping box. I'm hoping that my wife will let me off the couch and back in bed in a few weeks.

I've had the fish in QT for 3 days now and it eats nori and not much else that I can see. I've fed Formula 1 and 2, PE Mysis and Hikari Mysis, and nori sheets. At first I was very worried as it seemed to only be pecking at the nori like it was trying to figure out what it was but after a few hours it started really grazing on it and finds new sheets as soon as I put them in the tank. As long as it's eating that I'm not going to worry about trying to get it onto other foods right now, although I will still add a few bits of whatever I'm feeding in the main tank. If nothing else it will give the skimmer something to chew on.

The fish appears to be completely healthy, with no bones showing under the skin and no spots, abrasions, or lacerations. Color is good and solid, fins are intact and aren't folded or held close, and the fish moves around very well. I'm not going to treat with copper but I am in the process of slowly lowering the salinity and will take it down to 1.010 while monitoring alkalinity and pH. I figure it will be at least a couple more days until I get to that level. Once I get it there my plan is to keep the fish in the tank for at least 4 weeks, longer if anything pops up.

The 4 weeks in QT is the part that worries me. My tank has good equipment, filtration and lighting but it's only a 20G, and doesn't allow much room for a fish like this to move around. What can I do to minimize the amount of stress that the fish will feel from being in such a confined space? If the fish has no sign of parasites after two weeks but is showing signs of stress do I move it to the DT? Help me with any ideas for relieving/minimizing stress for the fish and recommendations on how soon I could move it if it shows no sign of parasites. Not to say that one should receive less care than another but if this were Yellow Tang it would be 8 weeks in the tank and that's that but this is the first Achilles I've seen in the store in as long as I can remember and it cost me an arm and a leg. I need to play this as safely as I can.

Thanks,
Mike

Well, I ended up not being able to wait the entire 4 weeks. I lowered the QT salinity and kept it there for about 3 weeks. The fish never displayed a single problem and continued to eat nori like it was going out of style. It's been in my main tank for a week now and looks great. The only problem that it had in making the move was the Yellow Tang and even though that fish is quite a bit bigger, the Achilles had things squared away within a day. Now they pick at nori sheets side by side and I haven't seen any squabbles since the first day. I have a Red Sea Desjardini that didn't get into any scraps with the Achilles but did swim around with its fins raised for most of the day. All in all, the move went well and all the fish seem to have adjusted.

My only concern is that it still seems to only eat the nori sheets and whatever it finds to graze on in the rockwork. I consistently feed Formula 1 and 2 cubes, Hikari and PE mysis, cyclopeeze, and Oyster Feast to the tank. I recently picked up some Instant Ocean pellets and it passes on those too. Fish is fat, has great, solid color, and appears to be in perfect health so I'm not going to worry about it but it sure would be nice to see it accept some other sources of food.

Mike

 

[padova335i]

Again, putting an Achilles in hyposalinity is a bad idea. If you've never had one, you'll never know. With a specific gravity of 1.026 - 1.027 they thrive. Drop it to FOWLR levels of 1.022 - 1.023 and they suffer. Hyposalinity with an Achilles is almost a sure way to weaken and possibly kill the fish. IMO Coppersafe is a much safer alternative to hyposalinity.

i guess i got lucky? mine was fine for 2 months like that.. he stopped eating soon as the third day I brought the salt up.. who knows! maybe the hypo ended up killing him

 

[R-nel]

i guess i got lucky? mine was fine for 2 months like that.. he stopped eating soon as the third day I brought the salt up.. who knows! maybe the hypo ended up killing him

I slowly brought up the sality back to 1.025 in about a week... I think its too hard on them if you bring it up to quickly

Again, putting an Achilles in hyposalinity is a bad idea. If you've never had one, you'll never know. With a specific gravity of 1.026 - 1.027 they thrive. Drop it to FOWLR levels of 1.022 - 1.023 and they suffer. Hyposalinity with an Achilles is almost a sure way to weaken and possibly kill the fish. IMO Coppersafe is a much safer alternative to hyposalinity.

Hmm interesting. I hyposalinity mine for two months to a 1.008 ate like a pig during the treatment. Still active and eating very well.

 

[Alex T.]

Padova, I asked the same question about hyposalinity on an Achilles to Bob Fenner at MACNA when he was here in Atlantic City. What a nice guy! He actually sat down with me and asked about my system. Long story short, I told him I had a deposit down on an Achilles at an LFS and was waiting a few weeks. He told me that if I wanted the fish, go see if it eats mysis or NLS pellets. Being that I had a very large skimmer and four Vortech MP40's in a 6 foot 150 he thought I was ready. I have a good relationship with my LFS and did it that day. He ate the mysis and I bought him immediately. I drip acclimated him after a ph adjusted 8 minute dip and into the qt he went with 1.026 specific gravity. Bob was hesitant to recommend using any copper medications and especially warned me about hyposalinity with the Achilles. For some reason I don't believe it's the hyposalinity itself, but a serious problem they have in adjusting to the rise in salinity when it's time to move them to the display.

He sat in my 29 gallon qt while I did nothing more than feed, observe and perform water changes for 5 weeks. I was simply praying I had a good one. After a couple days of darkness to settle in I turned on a weak actinic light for 8 hours a day. By the end of week 1 I had him eating nori, NLS pellets and Mysis. He was good and fat when I introduced him to the display. It wasn't until this past October when an unquarantined SPS frag was introduced from a tank that had ich and I paid the price with unhatched ich that must have gotten into the display. Within days my Achilles was covered. I tried to catch him but simply too hard with lots of SPS corals and too many nooks to dash into for hiding. I lost him 2 days later. A very touchy fish. It's been 6 months and I'm still not over it. If I ever tried one again, it would be in a much larger system. These guys, no matter what size, will use every inch of a captive environment.

 

[ironwill723]

"Bob was hesitant to recommend using any copper medications and especially warned me about hyposalinity with the Achilles. For some reason I don't believe it's the hyposalinity itself, but a serious problem they have in adjusting to the rise in salinity when it's time to move them to the display."

+1...Exactly why I recommended using the Crypto Pro so strongly if you are going to treat in a hospital tank. If you read through Bob's site (wetwebmedia.com) he and the other pros highly recommend treating with Crypto-Pro (quinine sulfate). This is not another snake oil product, it is a drug used to combat malaria in humans. It works and it is light years safer than using copper or hypo with sensitive fish.

 

[padova335i]

Padova, I asked the same question about hyposalinity on an Achilles to Bob Fenner at MACNA when he was here in Atlantic City. What a nice guy! He actually sat down with me and asked about my system. Long story short, I told him I had a deposit down on an Achilles at an LFS and was waiting a few weeks. He told me that if I wanted the fish, go see if it eats mysis or NLS pellets. Being that I had a very large skimmer and four Vortech MP40's in a 6 foot 150 he thought I was ready. I have a good relationship with my LFS and did it that day. He ate the mysis and I bought him immediately. I drip acclimated him after a ph adjusted 8 minute dip and into the qt he went with 1.026 specific gravity. Bob was hesitant to recommend using any copper medications and especially warned me about hyposalinity with the Achilles. For some reason I don't believe it's the hyposalinity itself, but a serious problem they have in adjusting to the rise in salinity when it's time to move them to the display.

He sat in my 29 gallon qt while I did nothing more than feed, observe and perform water changes for 5 weeks. I was simply praying I had a good one. After a couple days of darkness to settle in I turned on a weak actinic light for 8 hours a day. By the end of week 1 I had him eating nori, NLS pellets and Mysis. He was good and fat when I introduced him to the display. It wasn't until this past October when an unquarantined SPS frag was introduced from a tank that had ich and I paid the price with unhatched ich that must have gotten into the display. Within days my Achilles was covered. I tried to catch him but simply too hard with lots of SPS corals and too many nooks to dash into for hiding. I lost him 2 days later. A very touchy fish. It's been 6 months and I'm still not over it. If I ever tried one again, it would be in a much larger system. These guys, no matter what size, will use every inch of a captive environment.

"Bob was hesitant to recommend using any copper medications and especially warned me about hyposalinity with the Achilles. For some reason I don't believe it's the hyposalinity itself, but a serious problem they have in adjusting to the rise in salinity when it's time to move them to the display."

+1...Exactly why I recommended using the Crypto Pro so strongly if you are going to treat in a hospital tank. If you read through Bob's site (wetwebmedia.com) he and the other pros highly recommend treating with Crypto-Pro (quinine sulfate). This is not another snake oil product, it is a drug used to combat malaria in humans. It works and it is light years safer than using copper or hypo with sensitive fish.

hmmm.. Well I have a naso tang, orange shoulder and Achilles all in a 40g qt at the moment.. they all are getting along, and since 4.19 no signs of ich.. I usually hypo asap, but im just going to watch them this time... they are not fighting and i monitor them a lot.. Another trick i use is changing up what i have in the tank to keep the fish busy(fake corals and pipes) seems to work..

They are eating, just nori and formula 1 pellets. Im going to look into that crypto stuff and may treat them regardless? or if no ich is present for 4 weeks shouldnt i be ok? I really dont want to risk anything in my dt. esp w 7 tangs in the dt already!!!!!!

 

[Recty]

The thing is, ich can reside in the gills and you wont even see it. Just because there aren't spots on the body doesn't mean the fish doesn't have ich. So if you dont treat and introduce them to the display, ALL your fish will soon have been exposed to ich. That doesnt mean they will become covered and die, but when something stressful occurs (which can even just be adding new fish) they will become real susceptible and you'll have ich problems galore.

You say since 4/19 no signs of ich. Did they ever have signs of ich or did you just purchase them on 4/19? If you havent ever in the entire time you've had them seen signs of ich, you might just get lucky and not get it in your display when you move the fish over without treatment. But if they have ever in the past shown even one spot, I would certainly not move them over without treating.

To be clear, I'd treat anyway, especially with an already set up large tank with established tangs... I think you'd be crazy to just risk it.

 

[padova335i]

The thing is, ich can reside in the gills and you wont even see it. Just because there aren't spots on the body doesn't mean the fish doesn't have ich. So if you dont treat and introduce them to the display, ALL your fish will soon have been exposed to ich. That doesnt mean they will become covered and die, but when something stressful occurs (which can even just be adding new fish) they will become real susceptible and you'll have ich problems galore.

You say since 4/19 no signs of ich. Did they ever have signs of ich or did you just purchase them on 4/19? If you havent ever in the entire time you've had them seen signs of ich, you might just get lucky and not get it in your display when you move the fish over without treatment. But if they have ever in the past shown even one spot, I would certainly not move them over without treating.

To be clear, I'd treat anyway, especially with an already set up large tank with established tangs... I think you'd be crazy to just risk it.

You are absolutely right! I just came home w prazi pro, will treat w that first, then crypto pro, will order it today, no sense in making a huge mistake!

 

[geaux xman]

i am sure some of yall have already seen the videos of chingchai(1000g+ from Thailand) from the Large Reef Tanks section. he has SEVERAL huge achilles in his tank. get some suggestions from him on how he QT his achilles. i assure you one thing, he doesnt follow the "dump into the DT" routine...

 

[sanchoy]

Here is my trials with this tang:

If you order this fish, try to have your LFS order it in, they can quarantine it for you. Once it is determined to not have ick, make sure they wean it on to frozen. Nori should come naturally as a healthy specimen should accept it naturally.

Once you observe it eating and healthy in the LFS, then buy and put it in your QT tank. Have it there for at least 2 weeks while feeding it a variety of foods. Again most should accept nori (preferably soaked in selcon if available). Then start feeding mysis. After QT period introduce into display if no signs of sickness.

DO NOT just chuck it into DT. without proper observation. Most people who have bad experience with this fish, either A.(order it online, then toss it into the display without QT) or B.(buy from LFS without quarantine observation, and toss it into DT).

I highly stress at least 2 weeks minimum of observation. Make sure no signs of ick, and it eats properly. If not continue QT process and wean on to food.

 

[Tracey2]

I just saw this response, thank you. I will look into the diatom filter, I did install an 80w HO UV Emperor aquatics and have done 3 - 50g water changes, he already looks better and is still eating. One of his favourite foods was hakari ocean plankton and now I can't find it, anyone know where I can get it? He is eating nori, rogers reef food and flakes.

Mine has had some spots on and off for nearly a year in my DT. As long as he has been eating I haven't worried about it. The two things that have helped my tank the most with the achilles tang have been running ozone through my skimmer and running a diatom filter. The diatom filter has really been amazing. Although it won't remove ich completely from the system, the diatom powder filters down to one micron and thus has removed the majority of the free swimming ich from the tank. A lot of people will poo poo using a diatom filter in a reef tank as being antiquated but since I started running mine periodically I have only seen improvements in my achilles health. He has gone from consistently having 20 spots to maybe 2-3 at the most.

 

[padova335i]

so far i have the achillies since 4.19 along w an orange shoulder tang and a blonde naso in a 40 g qt tank.. they are all eating nori and pellets... (formula 1)

i bought prazipro, but im a little hesitant to use it on these fish.. they do look great, but i will wait to add them and I have been observing every day..

If a fish has fluke worm... can it pop out yrs later? Im asking cause I have a yellow tang in a 70 for several yrs now and his stomach looks "full" all the time.. like its popping a little...

 

[Tracey2]

Update, after using 80w uv for a week I thought my achillies was looking great, then yesterday he seemed worse again, I guess just the cyle of ich. He is not eating as much and I cannot find his favourite anywhere, if anyone has Hakari ocean plankton, please pm me.

This morning he looks like he wants to eat but is spitting alot out. I have had this guy for along time now and really don't want to loose him, I am considering removing the rock today and lowering salinity to hypo levels within a few days, I have no coral in this tank yet so this is possible but I fear ph swings and amonia spikes. Any advice?

 

[sanchoy]

Tracey just my 0.2cents, If i were you i would set up a hospital tank and treat him there. Much more easier. Yes, he may be stressed out more, but i have heard too many cases where the owner, in hopes that their fish will recover, leave it in the display and overfeed the fish in hopes that the fish will build a tolerance for ick, eventually perishing later.

Either way, this species of tang is very fragile and will die without treatment. He will eventually become weaker over time and die. Better off treating your fish and your tank.

 

[mtiknoles]

Hello Everyone,
I purchased my Achilles about 3 weeks ago. I QT all my fish for a month or longer before adding them to my DT. My qt tank is 55g. A few days ago I noticed the Achilles flashing on the rock. Normally I don't have LR in the QT but, it won't eat nori from a clip, so I put the nori under the rock. My LFS told me low PH causes tangs to flash (it's 8.3), add garlic to its food and to raise the temp to 80. I don't see any white spots and it continues to eat well. But this morning I noticed the tips of its fins are opaque. Any ideas what I should do? If it needs to be treated, with what? Your help is greatly appreciated.

Tonya

 

[Tracey2]

thanks Sanchoy, I might just do that, I have a qt set up but it has its own issues right now and has copper and prazi in it. I have read those stories too but have also read too many times where people move them to qt just to watch them die, I just don't know which is worse so thought I would start doing as much as I can with the dT. He looks better again this afternoon and is out eating nori and roger food, but again probably just the cycle of ich. I really don't know how I would catch him in my tank, I can't even reach to the back.

Tracey just my 0.2cents, If i were you i would set up a hospital tank and treat him there. Much more easier. Yes, he may be stressed out more, but i have heard too many cases where the owner, in hopes that their fish will recover, leave it in the display and overfeed the fish in hopes that the fish will build a tolerance for ick, eventually perishing later.

Either way, this species of tang is very fragile and will die without treatment. He will eventually become weaker over time and die. Better off treating your fish and your tank.

 

[ironwill723]

If the tank is not a reef why not just use Crypto Pro to treat?

 

[Tracey2]

ironwill, what is crypt pro and it will eventually be a reef, thanks

 

[ironwill723]

Here is a RC link on it:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1974075

Here is the company's website and online ordering site:

http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/products.html

Crypto-Pro is not like copper and does not ruin the tank forever for inverts. Just run carbon and/or a polypad filter to remove.