Algae Scrubber Advanced

[mrbncal]

I think photoinhibition . . . On the runup to photoinhibition, growth is fantastic, then growth drops like a rock, no matter how much light (electricity) you throw at it.

I base my opinion on this link http--www.int-res.com-articles-meps-134-m134p207.pdf

It is a study of Cheato, but it is mentioned that most marine algae behave in a similar manner.

I can only offer my experiences with this as "proof", but due to a lack of outlets I run my lights 24/7. During the scrubbers intitial breakin period of 4-5 weeks the algae grew like crazy and I got enormous amounts of stringy growth on the screen.

Now after almost 2 years of the same 24/7 schedule the results are obvious. The algae is very thin and weak. Also there has been an increase in DT algae in certain areas. IMHO this is a very important part of the ATS that really needs to be followed correctly for long term success.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Cardinal rule violation! You need to run 18/6. Everything needs dark time. Get a shorty extension cord and a timer. Also have you been replacing your lamps?

 

[slow_leak]

As far as tuning a scrubber, I would look at factors that limit growth, and do not think a well aerated tank would have a O2 deficiency.

I suspect limiting factors to growth are light, nitrogen, phosphorous, flow rate, and surface area and possibly micronutrients.

When I set up ATS originally I used iron gluconate to test whether micronutrients were a limiting part of algae growth. It appeared it was. I then widened slot and and put in larger pump, and again I suspect flow rate limits growth.

Another issue I am concerned about if nitrate limitation would lead to cyano in display tank. However this may be overcome with adjusting other factors such as light levels or flow rates.

In freshwater planted aquarium, a standard recipe is used to easily grow vascular plants.

1) adjust CO2 levels to 10-15 ppm by injection and controller.
2) add micro nutrient mix for 2 weeks to remove this a limitation
3) add mixture of Potassium chloride and potassium nitrate, maybe 2:1 to reach 5-10 ppm nitrate. Will remove blue-green algae when present.
4) spike phosphates when symptoms of phosphate limitation are seen.

For reef tanks, I suspect iron gluconate may infact also intially lead to cyano. For corals I also much prefer to feed more. instead of add nutrients as organisms are heterotrophic.

 

[mrbncal]

Cardinal rule violation! You need to run 18/6. Everything needs dark time. Get a shorty extension cord and a timer. Also have you been replacing your lamps?

I know, i know. . . lol. Kind of embarassing to admit that :uhoh2:

Its a physical limitation, I just dont have any more outlets. I am going to have to come up with something though. . . also, yes the lights get changed on time. Every three months when I change the chemipure.

 

[srusso]

I know, i know. . . lol. Kind of embarassing to admit that :uhoh2:

Its a physical limitation, I just dont have any more outlets. I am going to have to come up with something though. . . also, yes the lights get changed on time. Every three months when I change the chemipure.

Head to walmart,
For a few bucks go buy a power strip. If you don't have space for a power strip, get an outlet splitter. It's designed to turn a standard pair into six outlets. Even comes with screws to replace the face plate of the outlet. Also if you have a lot of D/C adapters you should grab some short 6" extensions, so you are able to get full use of all outlets. And most importantly grab your self a indoor/outdoor timer... Plug a power strip into it... You could get everything you could need for less then $20.

Thank you for being honest.

 

[Psyops]

Not as experienced as you guys but I have been running my scrubber for 2 years now. This thread sounds interesting to me. I did notice something interesting last week. I have been running a calcium reactor for 2 weeks now and have noticed a great improvement with my growth. This is obvious why, but I don't know what the longterm affect would be on my system with my scrubber growing more. Meaning possibly taking up too much nutrients. On one of the comments earlier, can you just turn off one side of the scrubber lights and leave the other side on and alternate?

Interested to see what the O2 sensor info is going to provide.

 

[maglofster]

Interesting to hear. I have heard and also experienced this about the growth getting improved by either a reaktor, kalkwasser or ca/kh additives being added.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I just learned that if you have low CO2 due to high scrubber algae growth, then the algae will start assimilating bicarbonate (alk) instead, but I haven't heard anything about growth affecting calcium uptake.

specifically:

Alkalinity may in some cases be decreased, because of algae's ability to use bicarbonate to get CO2, but this depends on how much CO2 is in your water, and how strong your scrubber is. If you have lots of CO2 (low pH), then alk will not be affected, and pH will be raised.

 

[Psyops]

Hopefully some algae experts can tune in here to give some perspective.

 

[srusso]

Here is my PAR reading from my CFLs to my screen.

226 at 4" and 302 at 3"


Used my fish net to push my hanging light an inch closer.



FYI I did push the screen back to account for the 1" sensor width.

Bulbs are two months old.

I hang them horizontally which creates a more even light coverage. This corrects "hot spots" on algae screens when the CFL is pointed at the screen. Unfortunately or fortunately (depends how you look at it.) this puts 100+ PAR in my sump which has created wonderful place for mysis, pods and worms live undisturbed.

 

[jbannick18]

If someone has time to skim or should I say "scrub" the basics thread of any useful posts that help here. I know myself and others have posted some great info that relates, I wish I could but don't have the time at the moment.

This would be awesome, just started looking into this instead of going the skimmer route and reading 70 pages could give me a headache :lmao:

 

[jh2pizza]

Is it Par that you are seeking or levels of particular spectrums? What is the spectrums that most algae goes at?

 

[Melifluonze]

Built-in Chiller?

Built-in Chiller?

Maybe this isn't the spot, but...

I've been reading about Chillers (Had the Dorm Fridge idea stuck in my head and it's really good that I did some reading!).

The thing I've tripped over a number of times is using evaporation to chill, 8,000 BTU per gallon evaporated, "they" (we?) say.

So, is it safe to say that an open Algae Scrubber, say 26" long by about 12" high, running in open air, is a good chiller solution?

I seem to run up to about 80 degrees inside the house during the day, and the 90 gallon test tank I have runs itself up to a frightening 84 degrees (maybe more if I leave the lights on! :eek1.

On the "real" 220g tank I'm setting up (with a scrubber), my sump is in the basement and the scrubber would be working in basically 65 degree air all the time. There's a 3/4 HP return pump and I'm going to run three 175W halides + some fluorescents to start, right over the water, but separated from it by... something... (working on that now).

Think the evap from the scrubber (+ 30g open scrubber sump, + 120g open sump tank) will work?

Think this'll work?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

In short, yes. Even better, put a fan on it. You will want a temp controller because an open-air screen with convection will drop your temp very well.

just to be clear, you're running the MHs and Fluorescents where?

 

[Melifluonze]

Lights are over the display tank. Just mentioned them as the heat generators in the system (waste heat generators, that is)

 

[srusso]

In short, yes. Even better, put a fan on it. You will want a temp controller because an open-air screen with convection will drop your temp very well.

just to be clear, you're running the MHs and Fluorescents where?

Reading his post and writing my reply in my head as I read, you wrote almost the exact words I was going to type.

+1

 

[pskelton]

We all know that an ATS can allow us to significantly reduce our water change frequency. This is a touchy subject that a lot of people feel strongly about and the above statement is usually followed by the disclaimer stating that this is if the purpose of water changes is for nitrate reduction.

The major reason for an ATS system to get periodic water changes would be to replenish trace elements and such. I was wondering if anyone had thought about developing a DIY food which would naturally contain such trace minerals. I would think that if you could feed your tank with such a food you could maintain your trace elements through feeding and further push out your water changes. I understand you can buy supplements and dose your tank accordingly but this is just something I have been thinking about.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

This is exactly what I do. Rod's Food is great because it's a total tank food. My local club gets together every 6 months or so and makes about a 3 gallon batch of DIY food that contains various seafood, off-the-shelf fish food, and coral foods like Cyclopeeze, Reef Chili, etc. It's essentially a DIY version of Rod's.

I don't do any PWCs unless it's a last resort, like one of those 'gut' feelings, like I notice something odd and I default to doing a water change to see if it helps (which, so far, it has made no difference)

 

[slow_leak]

I would warn about taking a type of filtration as a sole ideology. Salt water parameters are measured by basic parameters. Some would argue that not doing any water changes will cause a closed reef tank to crash hard eventually. MudShark is one of the few TOTM examples I ever saw that was excellent condition. He eventually moved away from technique. I run Skimmer and scrubber. Scrubber product is negligible.

ATS will remove inorganic nitrogen and phosphates with ease however.

As far as trace elements go, if you choose to use them, I like the idea of using only elements that are known to deplete readily. The ones that depleted readily can also lead to excess algae growth. I have tried Iron Gluconate, Potassium Iodine, and Potassium Sulfate. I would like to have evidence if ATS can deplete potassium like vascular fresh water plants do. I am currently using a little TLF Sea Elements. I am not a fan of control bleaching experiments like Zeovit personally. It looks risky and unnatural.

I have enjoyed results of scrubber over last 9 months. Cyano faded and hair has made a very slight come back. I will just use a few herbivores as I got away with just snails in last 9 months. Coloration and maintenance are easy and will keep running it.

 

[pskelton]

I understand the debate on filtration ideology and I understand it is not without risk. I also don’t want to suggest one method over another or even say the method I use is better or worse than another. What I want is to see how far this technology can be pushed and where its limitations are.

My tank is running with a scrubber as its only filtration and I know there are proven methods available that work well and produce beautiful reef tanks. For me I like the excitement of doing something different and the experimentation that is involved.

Anyone wish to share how long they have gone without a water change on their scrubber only filtered tanks? Has anyone had any problems or any lessons learned?