Algae Scrubber Basics

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Very informative posts, thank you. I just built an ATS about a month ago using the sides of my overflow (I have a big 12x6x30 in overflow) but now I'll redo it based on your info.

I was looking for the "Algae Growth Types" section you mentioned but I wasn't able to find it. Could you please point me to it? thanks
 
This is from post #1902, some of this is outdated but it's mostly accurate

We should discuss learning to balance an algae scrubber. Knowing how could help others troubleshoot their own systems. You are designing and building a filter. Building an algae scrubber is not very hard but small defects in your build can create issues right away or later on down the road.

That also being said, I still am learning new things about algae scrubbing every day. I don't know everything and some of what I wrote here may not be completely accurate. I ask that others comment, correct or back this brief write up.

The reason for the write up allows someone to design a different system, shape, style etc.

After almost a year of tweaking and learning to balance an algae scrubber, I have learned the following to be true for me. (my tank)

Light, flow and real-estate (screen) need to be kept in balance. Overdoing anyone of these, including screen size can inhibit growth. Encourage the wrong algae to grow, or worse... Depending how far things are off balance.

Lighting issues: (assumes flow and real estate are balanced.)

Too much light can create yellow or clear-ish algae growth, even more light will prevent growth all together. this is true if the lights are too close or too intense AND run too long

Not enough light will grow dark algae, slimy, or other forms. Even less light and you will get gray to black growth (very bad) ...and should be cleaned every 3 days

Uneven light will grow hot spots, or dark edges. Or stripes that flow bulb placement.

This is why you need light a certain number of inches away, Need to replace bulbs every 3 months, Or why certain bulbs are unfit for the job.

About 375 - 500 PAR is ideal
Light should be spread evenly across the screen, when using spiral CFLs this can be difficult due to hot spots and/or dark edges.
(still waiting for confirmation on PAR requirements)

Flow issues: (assumes light and real estate in balance.)

Too much flow can make splatters or streaming occur. It can make algae fall off your screen when roots aren't strong enough for new growth. Can also create dark stripes. Even more flow and the ideal algae may never be able to attach and grow.

Not enough flow will create slow strips, grow discolored unwanted algae. Even less flow and dark to black algae will grow...

Main reason to actually test flow coming from your pump, with actual head pressure.

35GPH per inch of screen width.
Straight cut slot tube helps keep flow even.

Screen issues: (assumes light and flow in balance.)

Too large and unwanted algae will grow in lower lit areas (dark or black growth still possible in these areas), competing with wanted algae. Less of an issue so long as healthy growth covers most if the screen. Too large of a screen and projected needs for light and flow will create other issues. Notice this is over a year old, and now this is the exact reason why smaller screen, sized to feeding, are more effective

Too small a screen and nitrogen and phosphate aren't consumed fast enough...

Not rough, smooth growing surface will grow a powder like green algae, brown diatoms or other algaes that aren't desirable.

The ideal growing material allows light to penetrate, has a rough growing surface for algae to attach and provides enough room for nutrient up take.
 
Thanks a lot. I understand that it's assumed that the right algae (green hair algae) does not need to be seeded, correct?
 
since carbon dosing overlaps with ATS from a functional standpoint (both used primarily for nutrient - nitrate & phosphates - control), are there any concerns or considerations for doing both at the same time? will the change the food-to-screen size ratio (as some nutrient load is taken care of by dosing) or other parameters? Or is there a discussion on the (dis)advantages of one method over the other?
 
carbon is more about removing some impurities discolouring water or other contaminents. Lots of people run both, although with a good scrubber there wouldn't be a need to run it 24/7. Just every once in a while if you felt the water was yellowing.
 
carbon is more about removing some impurities discolouring water or other contaminents. Lots of people run both, although with a good scrubber there wouldn't be a need to run it 24/7. Just every once in a while if you felt the water was yellowing.

My understanding is that one of the functions of activated carbon (as opposed to "carbon dosing") is removing of impurities and discoloration.

As far as carbon dosing (vodka, sugar, vinegar, etc.) goes, it feeds bacteria in anaerobic areas that transform nitrates (NO3) in nitrogen gas (N2) by using the oxygen from nitrates in conjunction with carbon.

Here are two possible chemical reactions involved:
6NO3- + 5CH3OH → 3N2 + 5CO2 + 7H2O + 6OH’
6NO3- + 5CH3OH + 6H+ → 3N2 + 5CO2 + 13H2O

Lacking oxygen in anaerobic areas the bacteria will use NO3 instead pulling off the oxygen and release nitrogen gas. The nitrogen export here is done by simply nitrogen gas being release into the air (contrary to aquarium related info I read stating that the bacteria consume the nitrates and skimming is needed as it will export the bacteria containing the nitrates).

Carbon dosing for PO4 is a little more complex I won't go into it here. It does require skimming for export of phosphorus as, unlike nitrogen, phosphorus is consumed by bacteria.

Now algae in ATS do consume nitrates and phosphates as they grow and these nutrients (and others) are exported when the ATS is cleaned up.

Reading through threads it does appear that there are "many" people doing both but my expectation that one doing both needs to alter the new per feeding/bioload calculations for ATS (as carbon dosing removes some nutrients that needs to be taken into account as though you would be feeding less). I was interested if this was discussed and someone's was experimenting with this and has some conclusions. I think is hard to quantify how effective dosing is and how much nutrients is left for the ATS but I guess going by the color of the ATS as explained in posts in this threads could help someone adjust the light and other parameters to reach the optimal balance for ATS.

Another similar technology that would do nitrate removal is remote deep sand beds (RDSB).

I actually use all 3 methods - the ATS was not setup properly so I want to redo it per specs given there (I do it on the sides of my large overflow) and for RDSB it's a modified design.

Maybe in the end it's better to do one thing efficiently than complicating things and spending more time on maintenance for several methods. I do believe though that dosing carbon works well in conjunction with a DSB/RDSB as a DSB creates more anaerobic area where the carbon can be put to good use.
 
Srusso

love how you took the saran wrap idea to the next level!! all the way!!

i think i will try the piece of black garbage bag over the pipe, then saran wrap all the way down....no splash and no algae growing on the pipe.

good stuff folks, i love this thread, the ideas and collaboration of different users.
 
Okay, Im reading this entire thing but I'm not done yet. I have a question though. I don't have any algae issues other than some bubble algae, but I do have high nitrates, likely from over feeding (1 cube/day for 2 clowns, 2 cleaner shrimp, 1 pistol shrimp, 1 firefish, 1 serpent star). Tank is a 55 with about 25 gallons of sump capacity. Skimmed with a msx-160, that I'm looking to replace. I have some chaeto in sump that really doesn't grow very fast. So my question is, would a scrubber help in my situation? I'm really just trying to bring the nitrates down, not gid of GHA. Thanks, and now back to reading, I'm up to page 50.
 
Okay, Im reading this entire thing but I'm not done yet. I have a question though. I don't have any algae issues other than some bubble algae, but I do have high nitrates, likely from over feeding (1 cube/day for 2 clowns, 2 cleaner shrimp, 1 pistol shrimp, 1 firefish, 1 serpent star). Tank is a 55 with about 25 gallons of sump capacity. Skimmed with a msx-160, that I'm looking to replace. I have some chaeto in sump that really doesn't grow very fast. So my question is, would a scrubber help in my situation? I'm really just trying to bring the nitrates down, not gid of GHA. Thanks, and now back to reading, I'm up to page 50.

I am in the same boat, and don't have an algae problem either. From everything I have read, it can help your situation.
 
Okay, Im reading this entire thing but I'm not done yet. I have a question though. I don't have any algae issues other than some bubble algae, but I do have high nitrates, likely from over feeding (1 cube/day for 2 clowns, 2 cleaner shrimp, 1 pistol shrimp, 1 firefish, 1 serpent star). Tank is a 55 with about 25 gallons of sump capacity. Skimmed with a msx-160, that I'm looking to replace. I have some chaeto in sump that really doesn't grow very fast. So my question is, would a scrubber help in my situation? I'm really just trying to bring the nitrates down, not gid of GHA. Thanks, and now back to reading, I'm up to page 50.

It will drop those N & P's faster then you could believe. Post some pics of your sump area and we will help you design a great scrubber from the start. Post a full tank tank shot too, we all love those! Happy scrubbing!!
 
Srusso

love how you took the saran wrap idea to the next level!! all the way!!

i think i will try the piece of black garbage bag over the pipe, then saran wrap all the way down....no splash and no algae growing on the pipe.

good stuff folks, i love this thread, the ideas and collaboration of different users.

Here is a shot of the scrubber, tomorrow is harvest day. The "shower curtain" has worked very well. Harvests are greener and thinker.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1332635373.880572.jpg
 
Hey all, I want to build myself an acrylic scrubber so I can properly size it over my sump. I am wondering what you guys use to cut the acrylic, and also what you use to bond it? I know silicone doesnt work that well on acrylic..

Thanks
 
There are entire threads dedicated to using acrylic - I suggest you look for the "Acrylic Fabrication Questions? I can help". That's much to broad of a topic to go into on this thread
 
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