Algae Scrubber Basics

[wildman926]

Scrubbers work better with higher nutrient levels, not lower.

If there are high nutrient levels during any given pass, algae will grow better. Recirculating water inside of a scrubber will lower the available nutrients or food and therefore growth will slow. You want more water from the higher nutrient areas of the system not the lowest.

That usually means taking it from the display tank. Yes?

This is why I have my ATS pump right under my overflow -

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I think it's "best" to put the scrubber first, but not really required. there may be a few cases here or there where when the scrubber is last in line, and the water it "receives" is pretty well polished up. But that, in theory, should only cause some difficulty getting the growth established - i.e., the maturing stage might take a lot longer, and you would have to watch for photosaturation. But in the long term, it should still work just fine because the other filtration can't get everything out in a single pass, unless it is very efficiently designed.

I have seen a few cases where putting the scrubber first solved this type of issue (slow start)

On a side note, I think it's perfectly fine to feed the scrubber with the effluent from a skimmer. It may be nutrient reduced (slightly) but also it will probably have a higher level of dissolved gasses, which can be a benefit.

 

[herring_fish]

I agree there as well. The scrubber and the ATS remove different things. As I understand it, a skimmer removes things that may break down into N and P. An ATS works on things after they are broken down. The ATS can be put just about anywhere that has access to the main body of water.

Of course as mentioned before, a skimmer that is too effective can remove so much stuff that there is very little left to break down. Then the ATS could starve. If they are properly sized, this should not be an issue.

 

[Devaji108]

so how many of you are just running an ATS only setup?
I plan on doing this. always wanted to try it. I know there are many was to achieve that balance in a system. but running a skimmer and an ATS ( if properly done ) seams kinda redundant unless of course its not. haha I suppose it's all about finding that sweet spot for your tank.
but i am still wondering how many ATS only tanks are out there.

 

[hkgar]

I might be wrong but a skimmer and an ATS, I belive, serve different function for waste removal. The skimmer removes dissolved organics and an ATS removes nitrates and phosphates

 

[wildman926]

running a skimmer and an ATS ( if properly done ) seams kinda redundant unless of course its not.

It is not because -

a skimmer and an ATS serve different function for waste removal. The skimmer removes dissolved organics and an ATS removes nitrates and phosphates

The balance of a tank depends on what your are trying to keep.

 

[SantaMonica]

a skimmer that is too effective can remove so much stuff that there is very little left to break down. Then the ATS could starve.

I never see this. Most of the "food" for scrubbers seems to come from the ammonia/urea from the fish (and from the respiration of the corals), which of course skimmers do not affect.

 

[herring_fish]

In many cases, you too are correct. I don't know if this makes any sense but I like to say that there is a difference between nutrients and nutrition. A bigger scrubber could be, in part, relying on decaying food and other things to supply more N and P and without it, a scrubber COULD underperform.

In many tanks, bacteria is another part of the equation that is not considered. You don't have to dose vodka to have enough bacteria in the system to throw thinks out of whack. Lots of live rock, a deep sand bed, bio pellets or using zeovit products can change the nutrient levels and balance in the system.

I often caution newer users that having too many mechanisms running at the same time, can put them into competition with each other. This doesn't mean that any of them are bad. They all work and can work very well. I just come back to the idea that, in my opinion, a user should decide which method speaks to their hart.

Then make that method their primary method. Next you get it working very well. Only then, should you add a second process and use it as a weaker secondary feature that helps tune the system to get what you want. When you have manger problems with your primary, you concentrate on that and fix it. Is it too small, badly designed, installed improperly or badly implemented.

I personally strongly prefer a scrubber only tank but that is because it fits what I am doing. Others go with skimmer only systems and are equally passionate. They are equally correct"¦for them. Then there are the mixers.

Some people have a good skimmer and add macro algae in the sump. Others add a real scrubber instead or in addition to the macro. Conversely, some people add a smaller skimmer to a good scrubber system.

Just don't add a great big skimmer and a great big scrubber and dose too much vodka unless you really know what you are doing. You certainly wouldn't want to add them all at the same time. How would you diagnose a problem? What method would you work on? Whose advice would you ask for and take?

 

[jason2459]

In many cases, you too are correct. I don't know if this makes any sense but I like to say that there is a difference between nutrients and nutrition. A bigger scrubber could be, in part, relying on decaying food and other things to supply more N and P and without it, a scrubber COULD underperform.

In many tanks, bacteria is another part of the equation that is not considered. You don't have to dose vodka to have enough bacteria in the system to throw thinks out of whack. Lots of live rock, a deep sand bed, bio pellets or using zeovit products can change the nutrient levels and balance in the system.

I often caution newer users that having too many mechanisms running at the same time, can put them into competition with each other. This doesn't mean that any of them are bad. They all work and can work very well. I just come back to the idea that, in my opinion, a user should decide which method speaks to their hart.

Then make that method their primary method. Next you get it working very well. Only then, should you add a second process and use it as a weaker secondary feature that helps tune the system to get what you want. When you have manger problems with your primary, you concentrate on that and fix it. Is it too small, badly designed, installed improperly or badly implemented.

I personally strongly prefer a scrubber only tank but that is because it fits what I am doing. Others go with skimmer only systems and are equally passionate. They are equally correct"¦for them. Then there are the mixers.

Some people have a good skimmer and add macro algae in the sump. Others add a real scrubber instead or in addition to the macro. Conversely, some people add a smaller skimmer to a good scrubber system.

Just don't add a great big skimmer and a great big scrubber and dose too much vodka unless you really know what you are doing. You certainly wouldn't want to add them all at the same time. How would you diagnose a problem? What method would you work on? Whose advice would you ask for and take?

Well, I'll be interested in how my scrubber does. I do dose 80-90ml/day of vinegar, have a skimmer that consistently pulls 1cup of thick skim mate everyday, I change just over 1% of my water volume everyday through out the day via AWC, and have a RUGF, and have around 150-180lbs of live rock. I'm sure I'm forgetting something.

 

[herring_fish]

So if you have everything running well, adding a scrubber is a great idea. It should come on line slowly since it takes a while to fire up.
I didn't read back at all of your posts. Do you have a little extra N and/or P?

 

[jason2459]

Oh yeah and ozone. I haven't tested my N or PO4 in a little while now. I normally get undetectable via API for nitrates and around .06 PO4 via Hanna checker. Good enough for me and besides certain events I don't have any issues.

I used to harvest macro algae along with all that above too. Just haven't the past couple years and have been wanting to start back up and decided to try an ATS.

 

[infusionluke]

My ATS setup

My ATS setup

Figured I would post some pics of my ATS setup. thanks to everyone that has contributed to this thread and the advance topics thread!
https://goo.gl/photos/xbgHSoRAE1tbRKBG8
https://goo.gl/photos/ozFZZXQBaya4ws718
https://goo.gl/photos/9Zz2BD9dYXXN4MJcA
https://goo.gl/photos/siasUg5fpdMS3AyA8
https://goo.gl/photos/shtyEVzfP9TQn6PE7
https://goo.gl/photos/tCoAw2DnmeuAnv3R8
Had to check it twice, to make sure I did it right.
https://goo.gl/photos/UJu11FUgQCJr39X19

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

That is quite the contraption. What is that, 2" pipe?

 

[salty joe]

WOW! How much do you feed and how often do you harvest?

 

[jason2459]

Figured I'd share my first cleaning experience. Quoted from my tank journal

The trubo hf L series ATS is Very very very easy to do maintenance on. I didn't scrub it at all but just the process of getting the screen out and back in is super easy and can just set it back in, plug the pump back in, and forget it. Love that kind of setup that's easy to maintain.

Just pulled out for the first time

Flipped around to see the other side

Went ahead and pulled the false bottom as it only took me exactly .00367 seconds longer to do that at the same time

Both sides after a quick palm wipe and rinse (it was not slimy feeling at all. Just felt the rough screen)

Day 0

Also to note, I went ahead and did a quick wipe of the inside with a paper towel too.

I was also wondering if I should flip the screen the other way?


BTW, the entire thing is dead silent now. Never did hook up the drain valve.

 

[infusionluke]

That is quite the contraption. What is that, 2" pipe?

Yes 2" stepped up from my 1.5" drain.

I feed around 1.5 teaspoons of pellets a day and then maybe every three days I throw in around 2-3 cubes of frozen food (Rods). Ooh and each one of my auto feeders, I have two, also have a teaspoon of coal frenzy mixed in with the pellets. Not a ton of food, but enough to keep the fish and corals happy.

I try to harvest every seven days. Unless I forget or don't have time then it's the next possible free moment. That last harvest was after 14 days.

 

[SantaMonica]

Yes when you have the space for big scrubbers and big growth, your system acts more like a real reef, where 90% of the biomass (except bacteria) is algae.

 

[Glazner]

Question, I have a 280 gallon mixed reef with high nitrates 25-50 and phos .1ish per Salifert. Everything in my tank looks healthy. My parameters are good. Salt 1.025, Mag 1300, Alk 10.2, Cal 450. Tank runs a little warm in the summer 79-82. My biggest concern is the high nitrates. IF everything looks good, should I be that concerned with bringing the nitrates down? I do 35 gallon water changes weekly, and run GFO. Yes I probably feed to much. I have several fish and my tangs are now 6-8" so stocked pretty heavy. I probably need a larger skimmer.... just not in the budget. My sump/fuge is only a 55 gallon with macros growing like crazy. So I am thinking about adding a ATS to help with nitrates. Do you think an ATS would help? I don't have much room above my sump, so I was considering an upflow ATS placed in my sump/fuge. Is there any reason I need the box and airline. What would happen if I put the screen in my fuge by the glass and put a 20 watt 660 red Led light on the outside shinning on the screen. The "excess light would just help my chaeto and other macros grow more. I have two cfl shop lights currently on the fuge. I appreciate your feedback. I know I could feed less, reduce my fish load and do more water changes.... but I would prefer to add an ATS if you think this would be helpful. Thanks

 

[Paul B]

I have my water fall pump sitting right on top of the dolomite of my RUGF.

That sounds like a ridiculous, Old School way to do things :smokin:

 

[infusionluke]

@ Glazner I think that your idea is going to work great!
For a system that size, and only being lit from one side, just make the screen as large as you can and add the bubble wand below to make sure you get some really good flow across the screen.