Algae Scrubber Basics

[TONY_C]

Welcome Tony,

If the live rock is really "live", then a scrubber will keep the ammonia down so that more life lives in the rock. But it still won't grow that much until you start feeding fish and making lots of ammonia.

Thanks for the warm welcome. I don't plan to use a skimmer so I don't want to have to use one for the start up. I want to use a waterfall scrubber. I am still learning and trying to weed thru pages and pages of useful info but some seems to be contradictory, I suppose there is more than one way to do initial startup but most of what I have read does not talk about scrubbers.

My plan is to:

1. use a dry rock base (approx 50lbs) that I can aquascape and install in the tank
2. fill tank and sump with SW (using RO/DI)
3. add Aragonite dry sand and top off with live sand to save some money
4. add live rock from LFS (about 40-50 lbs)

Does this sequence make sense? I know that it will take some time for the bacteria to spread in the sand bed and onto the dry rocks, I don't mind waiting, in fact, I think it's a fascinating process and I want to really observe what happens anyway. I keep reading nothing fast happens on a reef so I can be patient.

As for the live rock from the LFS, when I buy it, should I bring some pails of SW to keep it submerged for the trip home? I live about 20 minutes from the LFS.

 

[FullBoreReefer]

Sounds good. No need for buckets, you LFS should wrap it in wet paper towel/newspaper and box it up. Keeping it damp is plenty, especially your short trip

 

[karimwassef]

There is little to see... Without a skimmer, you should have an ATS setup before bringing a lot of live rock in. You can start with some small pieces to seed... or get some turf or water change from an existing setup (local friend).

I wish I had done that. Instead, my rock turned into green rock and roll hair.

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/6B45E405-2D99-4567-BA54-0EB3459E2FBB_zpstqn9z1bq.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/6B45E405-2D99-4567-BA54-0EB3459E2FBB_zpstqn9z1bq.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 6B45E405-2D99-4567-BA54-0EB3459E2FBB_zpstqn9z1bq.jpg"/></a>

 

[SantaMonica]

I don't think sequence is important; after one year it will be in the same place. However I would put the LR in water to minimize air contact.

 

[SantaMonica]

Also consider making an upflow instead. Trevor Janvier in Canada is having fun with his upflow: "20 days... that's pretty wicked growth, and it seems like my glass algae has lessened. The first picture is 6 weeks ago the next is 4 weeks ago, and last are today, all are 2 weeks intervals with 24 hour lights. phosphate is between .06-.19 and I only clean the glass about once every two weeks and it takes only a min or two. best thing I have done for my tank"

 

[TONY_C]

Thanks to all for the quick replies.

 

[jerseypete]

Question. How long does a screen last? After roughing it up and removing and scraping when cleaning. And is there anything you can do to prepare a new one so it doesn't take to long to start growing algea again? I kinda screwed up when I did mine forgot about leaving the top inch or so smooth. So now it's growing like crazy and it's starting to grow up into pipe. And if you do have to start a new one, are you doing anything for rising nitrates. Dosing again? I tried a homemade light blocker. Little success. I just ordered one from Floyd. But I seem to think I'll need to replace screen.

 

[Jade5051]

...How long does a screen last?...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H-Q7b-vHY3Q

 

[jerseypete]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H-Q7b-vHY3Q

Everybody is a comedian

 

[MorganAtlanta]

Screens can last a couple years. Eventually the plastic degrades and they start to tear. To start a new screen, cut strips of your old screen and tie them on the new one with fishing line. This will help seed the new screen, and you won't loose all your scrubbing power while the new screen develops.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I just use the really small zip ties, they are just the right size to get through the #7 mesh holes, cut the old screen into strips that fit vertically starting a few rows below your screen/slot junction, cinch them down, clip off, good to go. I let them run for 2 full cleanings then remove half, then on the 3rd cleaning I remove the rest. Works like a charm

 

[jerseypete]

Thanks

 

[outy]

I just use the really small zip ties, they are just the right size to get through the #7 mesh holes,

Yep. mine are so small I need two connected together

 

[biecacka]

My slot is cut a bit more narrow so it just holds the screen in by itself. Wasn't intentional to cut it this way tho.
I just cleaned my screen today for the first time. Got a decent amount of algae off it. I recently stopped dosing vinegar and vodka so my screen build up should pick up.

Corey

 

[karimwassef]

An ATS is basically a substitute (alternative method) to carbon dosing, right?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

One point of view is that the algae releases sugars into the water and this is a form of carbon dosing (some say that due to this, you should not use biopellets in conjunction with a scrubber, I say it's OK but very lean = not aggressive BP use). Another is that the algae mat provides a dynamic surface where bacteria can populate, so the bacteria colony grows right along with that algae, then you harvest it and a new colony starts.

The latter example is most likely true but has yet to be proven - it just makes sense, bacteria populate everywhere. The act of harvesting algae might be compared to the action of the skimmer while using biopellets or zeovit. With zeo you shake the container to break away the bacterial biofilms and push them into the water column so the skimmer can remove them. With BP the skimmer just removes the skimmable bacteria.

One could argue that algae scrubbing is better because you aren't reliant on only removing skimmable bacteria - you remove all types when you scrape the screen.

 

[jason2459]

My slot pipe has a lot of bacteria I clean out with the screen each time.

 

[herring_fish]

Floyd's right. He has gone into some of the details of alternate views and perspectives.

My take is that basically an ATS does a similar job as carbon dosing but uses a different method. They both take in waste. One is exported via a skimmer and another by hand. Aside from increasing oxygen levels instead of lowering them and having a potential to stabilize pH, I like an ATS because it is often more balanced in removing nitrates and phosphates than many dosing methods. That is why you normally don't need to also run GFO or lanthanum at the same time a dosing.

All that being said the two ARE "œalternative method"s for the same outcome. It's just a matter to preference.

 

[karimwassef]

Thanks guys!

Ok - another question. When I harvest the whole screen, I see an increase in green growth on my glass for a couple of days. Snails love it, but I don't.

After a week, we're back to normal.

I'm attributing this to the base algae not being able to absorb the nutrients I'm adding fast enough. I could slow down on my feeding after a harvest, but I'd rather not.

Anyone else see this?

What's the answer? Phased removal of portions of the screen?

 

[herring_fish]

While there are lots of other factors that can come into play, generally, the more algae that you have, the more potential there is for absorption of waste. When you harvest there is less of it left to do the work. New growth is more effective per gram than old but there just may not be enough to do a perfect job.

One thing that I do is harvest only half of the algae at a time but do it more often. That way there is always part of the algae ready to go.