Algae Scrubber Basics

[jake levi]

Scrubber sizes

Scrubber sizes

I think dividing it up into a 200 gal system has a lot to go for it, easy later to add another, and they could sit further apart, so will go with the 200 gal for a start, these are 20Hs and initially the first ones will have live rock to cycle the rest.

I do like the prospect of one filtration unit instead of the arrays most use. In a few mos these 20s will house breeder pairs. One might have chaeto and pods until the pair comes.

I am planning on rubbermaid stock tanks for most of the sumps. Not adding that water to the total. So this will be a learner ATS system.

 

[dogstar74]

Jake I have a design idea for you, I'll draw it up tonight on Sketchup to demonstrate my idea. I think you'll like it.

Cheers,
Aaron

 

[jake levi]

design

design

Hi Aaron

be interested in seeing it,

I was browsing the hardwares today, checking out plumbing parts, not a whole lot needed for the now two systems, I am going to be using the max I can in the length of the totes for the drip bar and mesh, I am playing around with a couple designs of pvc based in the bottom then coming up on each end to a cross piece on top that is the water to the mesh, I can get it about 28" and easily 25" long from the top, now thinking of lights , which and configuring it, need to go back to the lumens requirement.

I bought 4 totes for ATS boxes and probably sumps, will probably configure each a bit different depending on the system size, this first is smaller, about 200 gallons in tanks. Maybe 2 of those. And another of bigger tanks for soft corals.

And last being an 8' frag tank. Each just a bit different.

 

[dogstar74]

One way to keep the depth of the scrubber to a minimum is to have two 25 inch circles of screen, then have them be 13 inches in height. 25 inches in circumference is 8 inches in diameter. A good way to light them is with two T5's down the middle, and CFL on the outsides. Such as this.

This may be an option. And with two screens you can alternate cleanings to minimize interruption in filtration.

HTH
Aaron

 

[jake levi]

circular mest

circular mest

Now thats interesting, I hadnt thought of circling them, let me think on this a bit, the videos before and after the ones posted towards the beginning have some interesting variations also, some I think have less wattage for lights but appear to have a lot of lumens, I am going to go back and rewatch all of those, I have read through this thread twice and pick up more that I missed before, about 3 times more and I should be up to date on it, building a few will be the post graduate work.

One of the variations I thought of was four screens hung vertically in a squarewith a light in the center of the four and four other lights outside the screens, so similar to this, with overhead bar for each screen, I still like the unit shown early on in the acrylic, I am going to a big hardware this weekend that carries sheets of acrylic and do some calculator work there.

I am liking the overal sump with water flowing through and the ATS above it on its own pump. A long sump, with a baffled first compartment to receive the tank water, then a pump intake raising the water up and onto the ATS, and down into a baffled section into the section with the return pump to the tanks.If that pump goes out then the manifold above the tanks and the drain lines into the sump will just drain into the tanks and the sump and the ATS pump will just keep circulating the water over the screens, the sump will be large enough for all the water equivelent of the manifold to drain into the sump without overflowing.

The heavy totes I have range from 30 gallons to 55 gallons, I also have two stock tanks from Rubbermaid, 75 and 100 gallons that may evolve into reservoirs later. Or for curing rocks I make from cement, arragonite and oyster shell . Or for a really big ATS unit.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

The round idea would work great for a lamp in the center, but the lamp/endcap/wiring would have to be protected from the the water and spray being right in the middle, so it becomes problematic to put linear bi-pin lamps vertically like that, the bottom end of the lamp is well above the max water line, and then protected in an acrylic box. Also causing the water to cascade evenly over a cylindrical screen would take some engineering, possibly a flex PVC tube, but cutting a slot in that and making it even would be difficult. Making it square instead of cylindrical would work, 4 straight pipes, then using CFLs on both inside and out. Also the round screen on the outside would bend away from the light source, and direct (perpendicular) light is what you need, so you'd lose effectiveness, a flat screen would be better.

This is by far my favorite mega-ATS pic showing this type of design:

And a multi-screen ATS that I also like very much

 

[Snookster]

Ok, I'm going to give this a shot. I don't have a nitarte issue, but phosphates are a pita for me. I'm tired of spending $ on rowaphos often and this only cost me $.52 to set up since I have all the PVC and extra pumps, lights, etc. I'm 6 days in, removed pellets, rowaphos and my skimmer. I don't have a much growth yet, but I've only had to clean my glass once, and it wasn't that bad compared to normal. I'm excited about this project!

 

[jake levi]

Ats mega!!

Ats mega!!

Turbo that IS a mega scrubber !! What kind of a system is it on? Metal Halide on top and what kind of side lighting?

Any lights inside the square?

Snookster did you have a pic of your scrubber?

I am thinking this 200 gal system scrubber to be the basic starter ATS, initially its only going to have 40 gals plus the sump but after that will be adding to it weekly til the 200 gals is there. The intitial will be live rocks and gravel and some CUCs and maybe some cheato in one tank, but its going to be growing fast after that.

I am not hurting for depth to the system, have both totes and rubbermaids from 22" deep to 28" deep, the 100 gal stock tank is 26" deep and may make a big combo sump/ATS/Arragonite filter/sump of it. Thinking the ATS just above a gravel filter with a plate under it and an underflow into the end sump for return to the tanks. I am thinking when in use it will probably have 40gals or more and with pump off probably 50 gallons. I want to play with this configuration a bit but that is how I am seeing this, a ~ 30 gal sump for return water, a small separate pump drawing water from the #1 sump up to the ATS frame over the mesh, and down to the arragonite and through a screen and under the divider to the return sump. The arragonite just to buffer ph. But the ATS planned for a 200 Gal Tanks load.

So a 20" X 20" mesh would be adequate from what I read. And then lighting on both sides. The whole thing on a frame sitting on 10-12" of arragonite bed.

It will all sit under the brood tanks, about 32" above the floor. I am going to fit two pcs of plexiglass as dividers for the 3 compartments, the first almost to the top, about 4" from the top so water can if necessary flow over into the ATS side of the stock tank, and the 2nd the same but above the floor the height of the plate also about 4" under the gravel to let water flow freely to the return sump.

This way the ATS pump can be turned off for servicing the screen and area above the gravel, while water can still flow through.

I didnt mention before but the two tanks above the sumps/ATS will be 20Ls, other tanks will be 20Hs but sit lower then the Longs so that section can be higher to service the sumps and ATS. The 20Ls are only 12" high against the Highs of 16".

Comments??

 

[srusso]

Ok, I'm going to give this a shot. I don't have a nitarte issue, but phosphates are a pita for me. I'm tired of spending $ on rowaphos often and this only cost me $.52 to set up since I have all the PVC and extra pumps, lights, etc. I'm 6 days in, removed pellets, rowaphos and my skimmer. I don't have a much growth yet, but I've only had to clean my glass once, and it wasn't that bad compared to normal. I'm excited about this project!

If you already have an established tank then you should not have removed all of your other filtration equipment yet! It will take at least 2 months before your screen is producing the way you need it. Your setting yourself up for a tank crash! Get your skimmer back in the tank asap... Algae scrubbers work extremely well once it has matured.

Effectively, you stuck a seed in the ground and asked me where your tomatoes are....? If that makes sense. Anyway I hope nothing has effected your tank yet...

Please post some pictures of your setup and tank. Detail the screen size, flow rate, bulbs used for lighting, etc. Let's be sure the scrubber you built will get the job done.

 

[srusso]

Jake, I think a picture would cut that last post in half... Lol
...at least when it's setup


But I would say make two 10x10 screens would be easier to clean, plus you could alternate harvests.

Sounds like a cool setup can't wait to see it all running.

 

[jake levi]

no pics, just ideas

no pics, just ideas

When its operating I will send pics for critique, I too wondered about two screens instead of one, the 10 by screens would take smaller lighting and make it more focused.

One thing I was looking for on the earlier posts is how many lumens the algae needed on the original 10 by screen, per side?

I went out and measured the 100 gal stock tank since I posted the last and it will fit easily under the bench with room to spare. It also has a thick enough upper edge to clamp the 2" return to its back side,

This thing is coming together, will be building the rack over this in the next few days. 6' long to hold 3 twentys above the sump.

 

[Dave1NC]

Mar-25-2011 - Update

Mar-25-2011 - Update

I cleaned off my algae screen last night and removed the filter sock from my return. I decided to clean the screens outside using a garden hose. I didn't power-wash it, but used enough pressure to clean off all the algae. Unfortunately I wasn't able to get it all off by by running it under the sink.

I woke up this morning and this screen had some new growth already, mostly diatoms. I am hoping the 3rd time will be a charm and I'll start getting some hair or turf algae growing soon.

Got a question for you experts . Would it be okay if I remove the GFO and carbon once the screen matures and after the 3rd-4th cleaning. Also, since I have two screens, I was going to clean them on different days so I don't experience any Nitrate or Phosphate spikes.

BTW, since removing the bio-pellets everything seems to have stabilized in the tank. I honestly think the issue was my skimmer. It is rated for a 300 gallon and you really need overrated skimmer for your system. My total system volume is approx 275-280 gallons.

Like everything else in this hobby using an ATS has been a learning experience for me. I had read about them a couple of years ago, but to be honest with you, the guy who started the thread on a different forum really intimidated me and made building them seem very complicated. I have since been on several other web sites reading about the pros and cons and learning as much as I can. The only real con that I found is you need to clean them every 7 days. To me this is nothing really since you already clean your skimmer cup every 2-3 days, add carbon, GFO, biopellets, additives, etc. If I can remove the GFO, carbon and stop dosing MB7, I already saved time and cut my expenses, so this seems like a no brainer.

Anyone want to buy some biopellets? :spin2:

 

[rysher]

hi wattage light will help you get green hair algae faster.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Until the screen get very mature (6-8 weeks old) I do not recommend washing with a high-pressure hose, or even a sink sprayer. The first few cleanings will be mainly diatoms and they will wash away under the pressure from your sink faucet and a gentle swipe of your hand. You want to leave as much algae on the screen that will not easily wash away (unless it's the black oily stuff, if you have a high nutrient load). Once you start to get stringy green algae, you can rinse a little harder, but you still want to leave as much algae on as possible. At about the 4-6 week point, you can start scraping off with fingernails. I know many out there use a garden hose and their systems filter fine, but the reason I do not recommend this is because you will end up completely cleaning off areas of the screen. This could lead to a nutrient spike after cleaning, not that it would last long, but why risk it? You want to leave a layer of algae on the screen for quick growth recovery, you don't want to blast it away. Cleaning with a hose should be reserved until the screen is very well established, probably after 4 months or longer. But, that's just my opinion.

 

[srusso]

I cleaned off my algae screen last night and removed the filter sock from my return. I decided to clean the screens outside using a garden hose. I didn't power-wash it, but used enough pressure to clean off all the algae. Unfortunately I wasn’t able to get it all off by by running it under the sink.

I woke up this morning and this screen had some new growth already, mostly diatoms. I am hoping the 3rd time will be a charm and I’ll start getting some hair or turf algae growing soon.

Got a question for you experts . Would it be okay if I remove the GFO and carbon once the screen matures and after the 3rd-4th cleaning. Also, since I have two screens, I was going to clean them on different days so I don't experience any Nitrate or Phosphate spikes.

BTW, since removing the bio-pellets everything seems to have stabilized in the tank. I honestly think the issue was my skimmer. It is rated for a 300 gallon and you really need overrated skimmer for your system. My total system volume is approx 275-280 gallons.

Like everything else in this hobby using an ATS has been a learning experience for me. I had read about them a couple of years ago, but to be honest with you, the guy who started the thread on a different forum really intimidated me and made building them seem very complicated. I have since been on several other web sites reading about the pros and cons and learning as much as I can. The only real con that I found is you need to clean them every 7 days. To me this is nothing really since you already clean your skimmer cup every 2-3 days, add carbon, GFO, biopellets, additives, etc. If I can remove the GFO, carbon and stop dosing MB7, I already saved time and cut my expenses, so this seems like a no brainer.

Anyone want to buy some biopellets? :spin2:

Good idea removing the filter sock...
Don't worry about cleaning all the algae off... In fact you don't want to remove all of it. It will amaze you how much algae will grow day to day.

Don't remove any filtration just yet. Although by week 4 or 5 you could see better faster growth, if not you should remove the GFO... Once your screen is matured yes you should remove GFO and carbon, use carbon only if needed. Leave the skimmer in place for the long term 6+ months if your goal is to remove it. Adjust your skimmer to make a much thicker skimmate should also help it grow faster...

 

[dogstar74]

Allright, So I was just sitting here with my New brown, diatom slimy screen (day6) and I had a thought pop into my head.

It seems that all these scrubbers take a time to "Mature" and that the turf algae takes a couple of weeks at least to start showing up.

I just wonder if that's because newer systems need to shed the nutrients that promote diatoms, or is it a screen maturity thing.

Have any of you guys that have run an ATS for several months/years ever replaced the screen to see if green appears first? Or would you suspect having to start all over with the brown slimy algae, even though your system is used to producing the green turf algae?

In other words, is the green turf algae a sign of screen maturity, or a sign of system maturity?

A good test would be to have someone with a well established ATS take the original screen offline and replace it with a white straight from the Walmart new screen, and see if you get diatoms, or green turf growing in. The latter would tend to suggest this "break in period" is more a system shift, and not just a screen issue.

Curious,
Aaron

 

[Dave1NC]

I've been running my reef for a little over a year and just started using the ATS. My screen was brown yesterday before I cleaned it. I kind of compared it to adding new base/dead rock to my DT. It starts out white, grows diatoms, critters eat that off and they you get algae or coraline algae.

 

[dogstar74]

I understand that, I'm with you I've been using for about 1 week now so I'm right in the middle of where you're at too. But I'm curious if our systems are changing? Or is the screen just maturing?

If the screen is just maturing, then a white screen placed in a seasoned tank system would start out with diatoms again, etc.

If the tank system is maturing, then even if I borrowed Floyd's screen full of green algae, it would convert to diatoms first until the whole system used up all the required nutrients for diatoms, then it would revert back to green turf algae.

Dave, I don't think you or I could answer this question, as neither our screens, nor our systems have changed yet. So this answer would have to come from an experiment from a seasoned system.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I think if you took a tank with a seasoned screen, then replaced 1/2 of the screen with a fresh, new screen, you would see the same ramp-up. I think it has to do with the algae forming a base upon with to grow. A screen that is new and roughed up will have the surface area and roughness needed to hold on to algae as it grows out, but it is still made of a smooth plastic material, and it just takes time for the algae to get a foothold. The first stage is when the screen "slimes up" as I like to call it. The water flows quickly and channels easily across a brand new screen. The same thing happens in a PVC pipe. Over time, a slime coating builds up and slows the flow just a little bit, so that it cascades evenly. This slime coating is a brownish color - the same color as the slime on the inside of your PVC pipes. This stuff forms the 'base', if you will, upon with the hair algae can grow. Just like the stuff in your pipes, you can rinse it away initally, but over time the only way to get it all off is by soaking in vinegar (or scrubbing REALLY hard). So there is no quick-cure for starting a screen.

If you took a seasoned screen, cleaned it like a normal weekly cleaning, and placed it in a tank with minimal nitrates and phosphates (let's say you were replacing the system you were then using to export nutrients, for example), then the screen would likely grow out normally. If the system you placed it into had a high nutrient load, a different algae would be prompted to grow until the nutrient load dropped.

That being said, you can give a high-nutrient system a slight jump-start by starting with a seasoned screen, but it has to be cleaned very well as the algae that grows in a high-nutrient system is different (black and oily), and needs to be clean more often until the nutrients drop. If you put a partially cleaned screen in a high-nutrient system, the algae on the screen will die off and the black oil algae will take over.

And no, it's not the X-Files black oil.

 

[bmullikin1]

wanting to ask about some of the cons, ive read. article about phenols, skatoles, and creosols being released and irritating sps and some lps, would running carbon and a skimmer remove these elements or how can this be prevented.