Algae Scrubber Basics

[karimwassef]

An ATS and a CUC do different things. Why is it that we try to replace one thing with something that performs a different function...

The CUC is a natural part of reef biology. They're necessary because any food that isn't captured on the water would foul without a CUC. They're like ants and earthworms in a garden ... They do the cleaning up so the garden stays healthy. Also, an ATS creates a favorable zone for algae but it's not the only zone. It's about balance so you have a beautiful healthy tank and export through ATS.

My CUC is also a food source as they're constantly spawning... Hermits, snails, emerald, starfish, worms, cucumbers... Their babies keep the water full of life.

You need both CUC and ATS for nature to work.

 

[sensei]

Because your building bacteria population. Not just ones that keep A and nitrite at bay. Your building anaerobic and aerobic bacteria that can denitrify.


Not enough bacteria populated and it cannot denitrify bacteria on a closed loop nitrogen cycle.

Its all nitrate management, and most people new to the hobby have a tough time accepting the knowledge that took us decades to figure out. Hell I was told and just did not know any better, or what to follow.

I do water changes and every time I do I get GHA for a few months afterwards until my tank stabilizes and consumes the N and P added from water changes.

Thanks, I understand now!

why do you add N an P with WC??
you do not use RO water?

 

[sensei]

An ATS and a CUC do different things. Why is it that we try to replace one thing with something that performs a different function...

The CUC is a natural part of reef biology. They're necessary because any food that isn't captured on the water would foul without a CUC. They're like ants and earthworms in a garden ... They do the cleaning up so the garden stays healthy. Also, an ATS creates a favorable zone for algae but it's not the only zone. It's about balance so you have a beautiful healthy tank and export through ATS.

My CUC is also a food source as they're constantly spawning... Hermits, snails, emerald, starfish, worms, cucumbers... Their babies keep the water full of life.

You need both CUC and ATS for nature to work.

I will add CUC but it will take me 3 months after quarantining the CUC.
my worry is to have algae under control in this first 3 months of the tank were I only plan to have an ATS. I am unsure if the ATS will be able to do it alone?

 

[outy]

Thanks, I understand now!

why do you add N an P with WC??
you do not use RO water?

I have quite the ro/di set up.



It is just the way my water is. 25 years and water changes always bring a little GHA.

Its only 27-32ppm out of the faucet, and 0 out of the membrane before DI, but still must have something in it. Test always show 0 as well for N and P in the newly mixed water

 

[outy]

.

You need both CUC and ATS for nature to work.

No you do not need either.


It just makes nitrate management easier.


A CUC does almost nothing compared to an ATS.

 

[sensei]

No you do not need either.


It just makes nitrate management easier.


A CUC does almost nothing compared to an ATS.

Outy,
What makes nitrate management easier?? having or not having CUC?
do you have CUC and ATS in your system?

 

[outy]

Outy,
What makes nitrate management easier??

An ATS removes major amounts of nitrates and phosphates, so less water changes need to be done.

A CUC only removes trace amounts before they are broken down into nitrates and phosphates. Similar to a skimmer just much much less effective.

having or not having CUC?

A CUC is an minor option, it is not a major must have item in the hobby. It is not required or a major tool.


Different tanks have different CUC demands that should be focused correctly to get the best results. But the best results are all minor in comparison to say what a skimmer does or an ATS.


There are no real cons to a CUC, the benefits are just not that great IMHO

do you have CUC and ATS in your system?

None at all, now.

I have ran a CUC for a decade, and it did not really help. Having a 100 snails still does not keep the glass clean, and is sort of an eyesore.

Having 100 crabs mean the big ones eat he little ones, or compete for shells of different sizes.

I have a very small clear pistol shrimp for 25 years, and he cannot be found or eradicated, and he just eats what ever I put in there. After a decade I got tired of feeding him CUC crabs and snails.


NOW in an old established tank like mine, I have so many natural life forms I don't need a CUC because my tanks has grown its own. I have peanut worms and bristle worms and tons of small life, and depending on how I manage my tank determines how much food is available which determines population sizes.

 

[salty joe]

I will add CUC but it will take me 3 months after quarantining the CUC.
my worry is to have algae under control in this first 3 months of the tank were I only plan to have an ATS. I am unsure if the ATS will be able to do it alone?

Just run the ATS. You'll probably still get some algae in your DT. Seems safe to say you'll get a lot more algae in your DT without the ATS.

 

[karimwassef]

So let me be clearer. If you feed your tank, I think you need a CUC

If you don't or feed so little that nothing ever makes it to the bottom, then maybe you don't need a CUC.

You can grow a garden without any beneficial insects, but it's not natural.

Technically, you don't need anything other than fresh saltwater and food to keep a coral. You can set up a continuous water changer and flush 10gal a day of fresh saltwater through a 10gal tank (100% daily water change). That will deliver all the right elements continuously. You don't need light either. You can spot feed to its tentacles. Will it grow? Not well, but it would survive. Not natural, but hey- that's all it "needs".

"NEED" is a curious term...
I think I need fresh air and sunlight... But do I?? Hmmmm
I think a coral needs a little hermit crab to clean up the tiny bits of algae irritating its base... But does it?? Maybe not..

 

[sensei]

Thank you all, thoughts are much more clear to me now
I will let you know who with the ATS in the system

 

[iced98lx]

Day 16 progress:





I did clean it a bit after the photos were taken.

 

[SantaMonica]

Updated sizing guideline:


Scrubbers are sized according to feeding. Nutrients "in" (feeding) must equal nutrients "out" (scrubber growth), no matter how many gallons or liters you have. So...

An example VERTICAL upflow or waterfall screen size is 3 X 4 inches = 12 square inches of screen (7.5 X 10 cm = 75 sq cm) with a total of 12 real florescent watts (not equivalent watts) of light, or half that for LEDs, for 18 hours a day. If all 12 watts (6 watts LED) are on one side, it is a 1-sided screen. If the watts are divided on each side of the screen, it is a 2-sided screen. This should be able to handle the following amounts of daily feeding:

1 frozen cube per day (2-sided screen), or
1/2 frozen cube per day (1-sided screen), or
10 pinches of flake food per day (2-sided screen), or
5 pinches of flake food per day (1-sided screen), or
10 square inches (60 sq cm) of nori per day (2-sided screen), or
5 square inches (30 sq cm) of nori per day (1-sided screen), or
0.1 dry ounce (2.8 grams) of pellet food per day (2-sided screen), or
0.05 dry ounce (1.4 grams) of pellet food per day (1-sided screen)

Flow or air bubbles is always 24 hours; water flow is at least 35 gph per inch of width of screen [60 lph per cm], EVEN IF one sided or horizontal.

FLOATING SURFACE SCRUBBERS WITH STRINGS: Screen size is the size of the box (Length X Width), and is 2-sided because the strings grow in 3D.

Clean algae:

Every 7 to 14 days, or
When it's black, or
When it fills up, or
When algae lets go, or
When nutrients start to rise

 

[biecacka]

Question, my algae is a bit brighter green and not near as thick as that. It barely is attached to the screen in some places. Could it be too much light, or not enough foods I'm feeding the tank? Lights are 2 10wt LEDs and screen is 7x8 inches.

Corey

 

[SantaMonica]

Bright green always means lots of light. You can feed more, if you have no nutrient problems.

 

[biecacka]

Should I cut my lighting period down from 18 hours?

Corey

 

[SantaMonica]

You could do that, and feed a bit more too.

 

[biecacka]

You could do that, and feed a bit more too.

Okay. It's a little large for my load now but I built it for my near future stocking. I worry that my nitrates might creep up a bit until I get it dialed in.


Corey

 

[fishbox]

Updated sizing guideline:


Scrubbers are sized according to feeding. Nutrients "in" (feeding) must equal nutrients "out" (scrubber growth), no matter how many gallons or liters you have. So...

An example VERTICAL upflow or waterfall screen size is 3 X 4 inches = 12 square inches of screen (7.5 X 10 cm = 75 sq cm) with a total of 12 real florescent watts (not equivalent watts) of light, or half that for LEDs, for 18 hours a day. If all 12 watts (6 watts LED) are on one side, it is a 1-sided screen. If the watts are divided on each side of the screen, it is a 2-sided screen. This should be able to handle the following amounts of daily feeding:

1 frozen cube per day (2-sided screen), or
1/2 frozen cube per day (1-sided screen), or
10 pinches of flake food per day (2-sided screen), or
5 pinches of flake food per day (1-sided screen), or
10 square inches (60 sq cm) of nori per day (2-sided screen), or
5 square inches (30 sq cm) of nori per day (1-sided screen), or
0.1 dry ounce (2.8 grams) of pellet food per day (2-sided screen), or
0.05 dry ounce (1.4 grams) of pellet food per day (1-sided screen)

Flow or air bubbles is always 24 hours; water flow is at least 35 gph per inch of width of screen [60 lph per cm], EVEN IF one sided or horizontal.

FLOATING SURFACE SCRUBBERS WITH STRINGS: Screen size is the size of the box (Length X Width), and is 2-sided because the strings grow in 3D.

Clean algae:

Every 7 to 14 days, or
When it's black, or
When it fills up, or
When algae lets go, or
When nutrients start to rise

So for feeding 2 cubes, do we just double the screen size?

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[SantaMonica]

Yes, and double the lighting.

 

[fishbox]

Ok thanks

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