Algae Scrubber Basics

[MidwesternTexan]

And, I'd just like to add, (posted pics months ago),
That,
on my system, I've got 2 screens, so 2 x (13" x 11")
lit both sides, each screen.
I'm running at least 6-9 month old 23W actual (100W eqivalent) CFL's on one screen- with the aluminum dome reflectors,

and the other screen- exact same size, has the LED's off Ebay- using the advertised 30W (?22W actual?) LED's on each size also.
These are the ones that have all the LED's near the denter of a squarish rectangle, and a large/steep/ mirrored reflector. Yoy know the type.

They all (CFL side/screen and the LED screen) run off one timer 18hr on/ 6hr off

After many many months, I really don't see much difference between the 2 after 10-14days and a cleaning.
The LED side may actually growth a more uniform screen/matt than the CFL,
but it's not night and day.

I don't feed my 12 fish all that much,
in my 180DT, with it's large skimmer and 125G sump/RO skimmer

Just my 2cents.

I also have a 8" x 10" screen in my FT sump that's lit one sided with a CFL (100W equiv.)
and it's been running for at least 2 weeks- only a few sps coral in that FT now, now fish and,
the scrubber still shows no signs of algae growth (yes, I roughed it up too)
I'll be patient,- no skimmer currently on that system.

 

[SantaMonica]

One would think the LED would beat the CFL, but the CFL is holding.

 

[Saltwatercoral2]

What would be a good sized screen for me?.

I have a 36" x 24" x 15" tall tank. I have 2 clowns 2 gobies, pistol shrimp, 2 firefish. Tank is around 58 gallons,. I feed about a cube a day

 

[SantaMonica]

Scrubbers are sized according to feeding. Nutrients "in" (feeding) must equal nutrients "out" (scrubber growth), no matter how many gallons or liters you have. So...

An example VERTICAL upflow or waterfall screen size is 3 X 4 inches = 12 square inches of screen (7.5 X 10 cm = 75 sq cm) with a total of 12 real florescent watts (not equivalent watts) of light, or half that for LEDs, for 18 hours a day. If all 12 watts (6 watts LED) are on one side, it is a 1-sided screen. If the watts are divided on each side of the screen, it is a 2-sided screen. This should be able to handle the following amounts of daily feeding:

1 frozen cube per day (2-sided screen), or
1/2 frozen cube per day (1-sided screen), or
10 pinches of flake food per day (2-sided screen), or
5 pinches of flake food per day (1-sided screen), or
10 square inches (60 sq cm) of nori per day (2-sided screen), or
5 square inches (30 sq cm) of nori per day (1-sided screen), or
0.1 dry ounce (2.8 grams) of pellet food per day (2-sided screen), or
0.05 dry ounce (1.4 grams) of pellet food per day (1-sided screen)

Problem rocks: Each 50 pounds (2.2 kg) of nuisance algae covered rocks you have adds 1 cube a day.

Flow or air bubbles is always 24 hours; water flow is at least 35 gph per inch of width of screen [60 lph per cm], EVEN IF one sided or horizontal.

FLOATING SURFACE SCRUBBERS WITH STRINGS: Screen size is the size of the box (Length X Width), and is 2-sided because the strings grow in 3D.

Clean algae:

Every 7 to 14 days, or
When it's black, or
When it fills up, or
When algae lets go, or
When nutrients start to rise

 

[sensei]

I have a question for all you experts in ATS,

I have an ATS running in my 470 g DT. I have only 8 fish now, and I feed 2 cubes.
algae is growing green in ATS, I have leds running 14 hours at 50% intensity.
NO3 = 0.5 ppm and PO4 = 0 ( hanna)

should I continue to increase the hours of light the most I can and continue to go up to 24hours of light if the algae grows well in ATS?
is the idea to filter the most you can ?

I ask because I do not have to much fish load and the system is 600g total.
I do not know what is best for my system?

I have another aquarium were I have another identical ATS and I have that one runing leds for 24 hours at 85% intensity. but that system has high NO3 and high PO4 so I want that one to filter as much as it can.

please tell me what you think?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I have a question for all you experts in ATS,

I have an ATS running in my 470 g DT. I have only 8 fish now, and I feed 2 cubes.
algae is growing green in ATS, I have leds running 14 hours at 50% intensity.
NO3 = 0.5 ppm and PO4 = 0 ( hanna)

should I continue to increase the hours of light the most I can and continue to go up to 24hours of light if the algae grows well in ATS?
is the idea to filter the most you can ?

If it's growing green under a given intensity, you can usually run that intensity for as long of a photoperiod as you want without burning (photosaturating) the screen.

If you think about it like this, this might help. There is probably a range of combined duration/intensity that will grow algae well - you can be on the low end of duration/intensity and you can be on the high end and still be OK, and that range is specific to your tank. If you push it too far, then you might start to get a decrease in growth because you have too much light/energy and not enough nutrients to support that growth.

In rare instances (only have seen this 3 times) you can get what I refer to as "whiting" where the entire screen goes from decent looking growth to stark white overnight (and not due to a pump outage). I still can't explain that. But my inkling is that in those cases, they were running on the "high" end of the ideal range, and then some nutrient was depleted to the point of stalling out the growth 100%.

^^ that is why I usually recommend that you mature your screen first under a relatively low intensity compared to what you will likely end up running at, and then ramp up the duration and intensity over a period of time...so that you avoid photosaturation

So my answer I guess is: it depends on your system and what your goal is. Keep in mind that hobbyist-grade test kits can't read down to zero even when they say it is zero...it might not be probably is not hard zero). So if you increase the intensity a bit (maybe to 60%) and then continually extend the hours over time and your growth progresses, and N and P drop to zero, and you have no negative effects in your tank, then you're gold.

If you are looking to maintain some level of nutrients in your tank for any number of reasons, this might change your methodolgy

I ask because I do not have to much fish load and the system is 600g total.
I do not know what is best for my system?

I would just take small steps then, but with 600g system volume, it's not likely that you are going to "bottom out" a nutrient and cause a reversal of growth, or whiting either.

I have another aquarium were I have another identical ATS and I have that one runing leds for 24 hours at 85% intensity. but that system has high NO3 and high PO4 so I want that one to filter as much as it can.

please tell me what you think?

If you have very good green growth and it has been consistent, and you still have N and P a hobbyist-kit readable levels, crank it up.

On my 120 (with a very high fish load and feeding) when I switched scrubbers and started a new screen I had a huge nutrient spike until the scrubber hit a stride. Now after about 2 months I am running at 100% 24/7 and filling it up in under 10 days.

 

[sensei]

If you have very good green growth and it has been consistent, and you still have N and P a hobbyist-kit readable levels, crank it up.

On my 120 (with a very high fish load and feeding) when I switched scrubbers and started a new screen I had a huge nutrient spike until the scrubber hit a stride. Now after about 2 months I am running at 100% 24/7 and filling it up in under 10 days.

Thanks,
When you say: "I am running at 100% 24/7 and filling it up in under 10 days"
does this mean that you clean the screen every ten days? or do you wait for 14 ays even thought ATS is full after 10 days?

 

[sensei]

If it's growing green under a given intensity, you can usually run that intensity for as long of a photoperiod as you want without burning (photosaturating) the screen.

If you think about it like this, this might help. There is probably a range of combined duration/intensity that will grow algae well - you can be on the low end of duration/intensity and you can be on the high end and still be OK, and that range is specific to your tank. If you push it too far, then you might start to get a decrease in growth because you have too much light/energy and not enough nutrients to support that growth.

In rare instances (only have seen this 3 times) you can get what I refer to as "whiting" where the entire screen goes from decent looking growth to stark white overnight (and not due to a pump outage). I still can't explain that. But my inkling is that in those cases, they were running on the "high" end of the ideal range, and then some nutrient was depleted to the point of stalling out the growth 100%.

^^ that is why I usually recommend that you mature your screen first under a relatively low intensity compared to what you will likely end up running at, and then ramp up the duration and intensity over a period of time...so that you avoid photosaturation

So my answer I guess is: it depends on your system and what your goal is. Keep in mind that hobbyist-grade test kits can't read down to zero even when they say it is zero...it might not be probably is not hard zero). So if you increase the intensity a bit (maybe to 60%) and then continually extend the hours over time and your growth progresses, and N and P drop to zero, and you have no negative effects in your tank, then you're gold.

If you are looking to maintain some level of nutrients in your tank for any number of reasons, this might change your methodolgy

Yes, I am trying to have detectable levels of NO3 and PO4
It is an SPS dominated tank and I have experienced best coloration when NO3 and P04 are detectable. I know that even when P04 is not detected by test there is some in water column, but sps seem to have better color ( IME) when tests show some levels of these nutrients and not cero.

I have been feeding coral food 3 times per week and feed fish 2 cubes per day but I can not get detectable levels of P04. I would like to rise NO3 a bit and P04 in the 0.05ppm range.

What would be your aproach given this goal?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Thanks,
When you say: "I am running at 100% 24/7 and filling it up in under 10 days"
does this mean that you clean the screen every ten days? or do you wait for 14 ays even thought ATS is full after 10 days?

Well, I pretty much wait until it's compacted full before cleaning. What I should do it take daily pics after the next cleaning but I never seem to get time for this as silly as that sounds. What happens is that it fills up with water as the algae mat progresses in thickness, but the top section is usually more water and less suspended algae, then in a couple of days that layer becomes thicker with algae growth and the water is higher, etc until between about day 10 and 14 it gets to the point where it's compacted growth all the way to the top. So I guess I get "full" in ~7 days and "super full" in 10 days or so...once it's super full, I get to that point where I worry that it's actually going to overflow but so far I have not had this happen...I'm intentionally pushing it as long as I can go.

But in most cases, once you get to that compacted-full point, not cleaning it for another day probably does not benefit much.

Yes, I am trying to have detectable levels of NO3 and PO4
It is an SPS dominated tank and I have experienced best coloration when NO3 and P04 are detectable. I know that even when P04 is not detected by test there is some in water column, but sps seem to have better color ( IME) when tests show some levels of these nutrients and not cero.

I have been feeding coral food 3 times per week and feed fish 2 cubes per day but I can not get detectable levels of P04. I would like to rise NO3 a bit and P04 in the 0.05ppm range.

What would be your aproach given this goal?

I would hold the course for a bit and see if you can maintain a given level consistently. If you are really trying to keep things in a tight range, then you're going to have to leave things as-is and test daily (at the same time) and then make small adjustments and monitor for a good period of time. If you change too many things at once, then you can't necessarily attribute a change in results to a change that you made.

 

[sensei]

If you have very good green growth and it has been consistent, and you still have N and P a hobbyist-kit readable levels, crank it up.

On my 120 (with a very high fish load and feeding) when I switched scrubbers and started a new screen I had a huge nutrient spike until the scrubber hit a stride. Now after about 2 months I am running at 100% 24/7 and filling it up in under 10 days.

Thanks, I already increased intensity to 100% in my 150 g aquarium with 24hrs of led light.

in this aquarium my N level is 20ppm and PO4 = 0.30ppm ( hanna).
I have been running the ATS for 3 months now and I have not been able to see any decrease in N and P. I installed a GFO reactor two days ago becuase I am a little concerned that P level can get out of control. I only used 1/3 of the recomended dose of GFO.

any comments?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

There have been a few articles lately about not worrying quite so much about phosphate. I suppose it is all dependent on how your system reacts and what you find works best but the consensus seems to be whatever you do, keep it stable. So don't put 10lb of GFO to knock PO4 down from an elevated level to 0.0000 in a day - that's gonna wreak havoc on your corals.

 

[nanomania]

Anyone using eheim air pumps for uas? Im still not getting howmuch flow of air bubbles for a uas.. ita very confusing. Im from india, dont wana go for chineese air pumps, only eheim hydor and fluval available.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

 

[davidgnome]

Hello, I have a concern if someone that has ran an ATS could address. Screen has been up for nearly a month, its 6x5 and I have a yellow screen, no green algae yet. My display has a lot of what looks like hair algae. Its long and brown though, not really green. This ATS is lit on both sides by 23watt cfl bulbs, and I feed about 2-3cubes a day. Should I keep waiting for more growth or make an adjustment? Also my flow on the screen is OK, but it tends to run all the way to the end of my capped off PVC and drips into sump, not going down the actual scrubber as much.

 

[SantaMonica]

howmuch flow of air bubbles for a uas

Basically just try go get bubbles across most of the screen.

Screen has been up for nearly a month, its 6x5 and I have a yellow screen, no green algae yet

The light seems too bright. More flow might help; since a waterfall is not underwater like an upflow is, it's possible to not have enough water flow if the light is too bright.

Could also run a few less hours of light.

 

[zachtos]

Scrubbers are sized according to feeding. Nutrients "in" (feeding) must equal nutrients "out" (scrubber growth), no matter how many gallons or liters you have. So...

An example VERTICAL upflow or waterfall screen size is 3 X 4 inches = 12 square inches of screen (7.5 X 10 cm = 75 sq cm) with a total of 12 real florescent watts (not equivalent watts) of light, or half that for LEDs, for 18 hours a day. If all 12 watts (6 watts LED) are on one side, it is a 1-sided screen. If the watts are divided on each side of the screen, it is a 2-sided screen. This should be able to handle the following amounts of daily feeding:

1 frozen cube per day (2-sided screen), or
1/2 frozen cube per day (1-sided screen), or
10 pinches of flake food per day (2-sided screen), or
5 pinches of flake food per day (1-sided screen), or
10 square inches (60 sq cm) of nori per day (2-sided screen), or
5 square inches (30 sq cm) of nori per day (1-sided screen), or
0.1 dry ounce (2.8 grams) of pellet food per day (2-sided screen), or
0.05 dry ounce (1.4 grams) of pellet food per day (1-sided screen)

Problem rocks: Each 50 pounds (2.2 kg) of nuisance algae covered rocks you have adds 1 cube a day.

Flow or air bubbles is always 24 hours; water flow is at least 35 gph per inch of width of screen [60 lph per cm], EVEN IF one sided or horizontal.

FLOATING SURFACE SCRUBBERS WITH STRINGS: Screen size is the size of the box (Length X Width), and is 2-sided because the strings grow in 3D.

Clean algae:

Every 7 to 14 days, or
When it's black, or
When it fills up, or
When algae lets go, or
When nutrients start to rise

Is this assuming you run a skimmer too? or will a skimmer in parallel with a scrubber give you more overhead? (maybe 30-50% more in that case?)

 

[zachtos]

I cut the screen to be about 18" x 10" exposed area and roughed it up. It's supposed to be rated for (18"x10" / 12) = 15 'cubes per day. Or in my plans, 3 sheets of 4"x8" nori, 2-3 auto feeder dry pellet feedings and 4 frozen cubes of food. I hope when combined with skimmer, high flow and barebottom, that I will be good to go. I still need to buy parts to build some kind of LED light. I know what I want, but not sure on enclosure and water/splash protection. Also a bit of confusion on LED density and optics.

 

[sensei]

why is it that algae does not growth or growth very little in mature tanks??

I have a situation that I can not explain:
my 150g tank has 3 years, it has high NO3( 20ppm) and high PO4 ( 0.30ppm hanna) and it has almost no algae. In this tank I can do 2 weeks with out cleaning glass and I see no algae, there is some gunk in glass but you can see inside the tank very clearly.

my 470g dt has 6 months NO3 = 0.2ppm and PO4 =0 and I have to clean the glass every 2-3 days because algae growth is glass. it is a brown coat in glass that I believe it is algae.

I added ATS to both tanks 3 months ago

in my 150g I have ATS with leds on 24hrs 100% intensity because I want to lower nutrients and in my 470g I have leds on only 14 hrs at 50% intensity because I do not want to lower the levels of my nutrients ( NO3 and PO4)
I am not sure if the brownish film in glass is algae, and if so I am not sure if I should increase the strength of the ATS ( increase the hours of led) to avoid the algae in the glass? but if I do so will I lower the levels of nutrients in this tank that are already low for my sps?

any thoughts about this?
Thanks

 

[sensei]

this si the kind of algae I am getting in glass

 

[SantaMonica]

Is this assuming you run a skimmer too?

A skimmer really does not affect it much because a skimmer does not help with ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, or CO2. I see the same nuisance algae problems on tanks with or without skimmers. The ones without skimmers however have more food for the corals.

why is it that [scrubber] algae does not growth or growth very little in mature tanks??

Because of periphyton.

Your 150 is older with lots of periphyton on the rocks which instantly converts ammonia to N and P. Ammonia is what causes most nuisance algae on the glass. Thus, no algae on the glass, but lots of N and P. The lower ammonia also reduces scrubber growth.

Your 470 is newer with much less periphyton on the rocks, thus more ammonia stays in the water and nuisance algae then grows on the glass, but less ammonia is converted to N and P.

Yes the brown film is dino's or diatoms.

You might put a timer on the 150 to give the scrubber rest time.

 

[sensei]

A skimmer really does not affect it much because a skimmer does not help with ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, or CO2. I see the same nuisance algae problems on tanks with or without skimmers. The ones without skimmers however have more food for the corals.



Because of periphyton.

Your 150 is older with lots of periphyton on the rocks which instantly converts ammonia to N and P. Ammonia is what causes most nuisance algae on the glass. Thus, no algae on the glass, but lots of N and P. The lower ammonia also reduces scrubber growth.

Your 470 is newer with much less periphyton on the rocks, thus more ammonia stays in the water and nuisance algae then grows on the glass, but less ammonia is converted to N and P.

Yes the brown film is dino's or diatoms.

You might put a timer on the 150 to give the scrubber rest time.

Thanks for your amonia explanation, those it mean that if I test amonia, I should get a reading in my 470g??

would it help to reduce the algae that I am getting in glass in my 470g if I increase the hours of operation in my ATS?

I was not increasing hours in ATS because I wanted N and P to increase, but I am not seing any increase in N and P after 2 months and I am this algae in glass of DT is growing every 3 days, so I might as well increase hours of led in ATS and take it to its maximum filtration capacity? would it help ?