Algae Turf Scrubber ?

[Amphiprion]

does it matter the type of algae the turf consist of????? i see some folks selling turf starter screens. are they worth it? some sites say the turf will naturally cycle through the types of algae until the optimal brown turf algae appears.

-bart

Some tanks do, others do not. Also, periodic surging seems to be necessary for some types to develop. Mine is slowly but surely getting a brown kind of turf, but it doesn't settle in as quickly as the usual Derbesia spp. I had a lot of it growing on the last scrubber build, but not so much this time. Hopefully it will grow in with time.

 

[herring_fish]

From what I have heard and that wasn't much, that is a good product. If you want to be up and running right away, that is the way to go. I grew mine from scratch. It just takes a week or so before it gets going. The color isn't so important as long as it is growing. Brown turf algae is more like a positive symptom than the ultimate goal. Just about any algae works in a scrubber.

The scrubber will grown what it wants, if you will. My algae types migrated to the sushi algae that I mentioned above. If you get that, there's no need for scraping. You just grab it by the hand full and throwt it away.

 

[Amphiprion]

From what I have heard and that wasn't much, that is a good product. If you want to be up and running right away, that is the way to go. I grew mine from scratch. It just takes a week or so before it gets going. The color isn't so important as long as it is growing. Brown turf algae is more like a positive symptom than the ultimate goal. Just about any algae works in a scrubber.

The scrubber will grown what it wants, if you will. My algae types migrated to the sushi algae that I mentioned above. If you get that, there's no need for scraping. You just grab it by the hand full and throwt it away.

It varies between tank to tank, each of which will have its own predominance of species. Mine just happens to favor the brown turf over time, but succession of more suitable species depends on your maintenance schedule, long term parameters, etc. The brown turf is a bit tougher physically than the Derbesia and its foothold is much, much stronger. That more durable film allows it to bounce back a little more quickly. I can't say what, if any, difference it makes, but some just get it over time through various deciding factors.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

Wow, I must say, I've read quite a bit on ats, and this whole thread. And I must say one of the better ones, if not the best. I run a small waterfall ats overtop the refugium and have seen some great results. I diverted some of the overflow so as to not need a pump. My only downfall was that I changed from 1 inch to 3/4 when I "t" off the line. If I had it to do over, which I will get around to one day, I would have stayed 1 inch. I will say it definitely cuts back on having to clean the glass a tremendous amount. Just my 2 shillings. Thank you all for being so informative...

 

[herring_fish]

Why don't you post some pictures if you get time.

 

[Rybren]

If any of you have read PaulB's 40 year old tank thread, you would have seen that he's been running an ATS for years on his tank. IIRC, he runs the skimmer output into a length of vinyl fence post that has been cut in half to form a trough. The trough is mounted on an incline and is lined with cement-impregnated window screen. He seems to have had great success with this setup. (he also uses a reverse-flow UGF)

I'm contemplating incorporating both of his designs into my new 75G build.

 

[herring_fish]

Could you place a link to it? I found him but I'm not sure which thread you are looking at.

Thanks

 

[Rybren]

Be careful what you ask for...

This thread has been running for 5 or so years and has had multiple splits

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1711320

 

[whoadude]

For lack of finding what I'm looking for. And to avoid the harp on not wanting to use a skimmer or that it's mandatory. I am at a loss on how to configure a scrubber for some reason. My thought is I would use the area (12x12) of my skimmer as another fuge. Maybe with another macro algae like culerpa in it and the Chaeto in the existing. Thoughts.
Does a scrubber replace the refugium or go with it? I just can't seem to design one to fit under my tank and/or in the sump that will not be soaking in the 10" of water in there. If I build it above then it seems it will be too high work conviently with. If I replace the fuge with it I can't figure out how to keep a water level to keep my pump submersed without the ATO constantly at work.
Pictures of your setups would be much appreciated. I have been to Algae Scrubbers site. Just seems everyone has more room to work with than I do. And I don't like stuff outside of my stand. Here's a picture of what I'm working with now.

 

[herring_fish]

Who knows who first used one but Dr. Adey is the one that made refugiums popular through his exhibits and books. He feels that a scrubber and a fuge complement each other. Refugiums were primarily placed in the system to promote more biodiversity in an area that was free of predation from the fish in the main tank.

Not having access or room for a proper ATS, many people started putting culerpa in the sump but many have moved to chaeto because of it's stability.

Whether you have a skimmer or not depends on you and how you want to handle excess food and waste. Just pick the primary system that you like and use anything else to fill in it's weaknesses.

What you have seems just fine. If you could put a small power head in the chaeto area, it might roll and more of the algae will be exposed to the light but there are not any rules.

You could build an angled or vertical screen if you wanted to. The screen doesn't have to come out of the water or anything. It's the water that brings CO2 to the algae not the air. Just put cool light where ever you can. You may have enough there already.

Just use your test kits and let them tell you if you need more of something.

 

[whoadude]

I rotate that algae ball which is much bigger now every couple of days.
Another question. Do you scrubber folks use filter socks or no?

 

[herring_fish]

Thanks for the link. He has a nice simple design. I skimmed over about 60 pages, looking for the pictures mostly. I was particularly interested in his reverse flow under gravel filter. I would think that he has a lot of experience with it and the principle is very similar the upside down deep sand bed that I was asking abut. I will probably go to the post and ask some questions.

Here is another system that changed over to a scrubber over a year ago. It is a small polyp stony coral dominant tank. It looks like he put two vertical screens in a tub with some CP table lamp lights between them and that is what runs the tank. I only skimmed over it as well.

http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=197

 

[herring_fish]

I don't speak for "scrubber folks" because I haven't been keeping up with the blogs and don't know what every one is saying but....I don't mechanically filter my water so no in line sock or floss and I don't drive the water through carbon.

The biggest reason that I use a scrubber is so that I don't have to directly filter the water. I want things that are floating in the water to stay there as long as possible. I want the little bit of plankton that comes from the fuge to circulate. Pumps can kill plankton but every little bit helps. I do put carbon in a sock and place it where water can run by. Of course some water goes through the sock but it doesn't trap the food.

I pump a lot of food into the tank and I find that this method keeps things in balance very well. If you do directly filter the water, it won't hurt the scrubber. It doesn't live off of the fresh food. It likes the broken down byproducts like phosphates, ammonia and nitrates. As long as there are nutrients in the tank, the algae will be happy and grow to meet the need.

 

[CLINTOS]

Beautiful I love the all natural approach I love pods

 

[Av8bluewater]

Plenty of misleading and old information on the internet about scrubbers. All the talk about yellowing has and will occur in an improperly run ATS.

I ran a scrubber for about 6 months with no problems before I had to move and may set up another. Gonna try vodka first though. I went from off the scale Nitrates to 0 in less than 2 months. As far as dangerous lights .. well that depends on how you design it. Mine was in an acrylic box I made. Completely safe and absolutely no salt creep problems.

Yellowing can be prevented by cleaning off the algae weekly. Depending on the amount of algae growing it could need to be cleaned more often and while breaking it in during the first month it will need to be cleaned anytime "oil slick" algae grows.
Running carbon will absorb gelbstoff.

Pros and Cons:
Can suck out PO4 and NO3 much faster than other methods like macro.
Can also reportedly suck out essential trace elements so long term use may need supplements.
Needs much more attention and research than macro. The flow, lights, cleaning maintenance is more of a balance than it appears just looking at one.
If you want crystal clear water you will still need to run a skimmer.
Takes up less space than a refugium.
Cools water.
Biggest Con- It absolutely must have regular cleanings... even if nothing more than massaging off any oily film.

There's a thread over at the Marine Depot forums I would recommend reading. It's huge and has the most ideas and info you will find.

 

[Av8bluewater]

For lack of finding what I'm looking for. And to avoid the harp on not wanting to use a skimmer or that it's mandatory. I am at a loss on how to configure a scrubber for some reason. My thought is I would use the area (12x12) of my skimmer as another fuge. Maybe with another macro algae like culerpa in it and the Chaeto in the existing. Thoughts.
Does a scrubber replace the refugium or go with it? I just can't seem to design one to fit under my tank and/or in the sump that will not be soaking in the 10" of water in there. If I build it above then it seems it will be too high work conviently with. If I replace the fuge with it I can't figure out how to keep a water level to keep my pump submersed without the ATO constantly at work.
Pictures of your setups would be much appreciated. I have been to Algae Scrubbers site. Just seems everyone has more room to work with than I do. And I don't like stuff outside of my stand. Here's a picture of what I'm working with now.

This is the biggest ATS thread I know of and has loads of great ideas:
http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic89570-4-1.aspx

My ATS build thread:
http://www.3reef.com/forums/i-made/blue-water-2000-algae-scrubber-67194.html

 

[Av8bluewater]

santamonica is selling one, but is a little expensive I guess because there is not mass production, I look pretty safe to me.

http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=502

There is a guy from one of my local forums that is on the designing stages for a commercial one, he says he is almost done.

That's perfect. The black keeps the stray light from escaping. If it escapes it makes a mess out of your skimmer / sump / reactors or whatever else coraline can grow on.

 

[rickb]

How long can the algae live without getting splashed?

 

[Mounda]

Scrubbers are a really great addition to any established tank, the idea of getting rid of algae is just great. All that and at almost no cost, I would say that scrubbers are one of the easiest DIY projects for any aquarium and are really worth it. Scrubbers are more efficient than chaeto and caluerpa, you need a lot of chaeto to get results and caluerpa can invade your display tank.

Santamonica had a really good design by having the scrubber above the tank fed by a pump and drain via gravity instead of running the pods through a pump. There are a lot of people out there on different forums that are currently running skimmerless systems and their reef systems look amazing. I'm still waiting to buy a new skimmer so I'm going to put the ATS to the test by using it to cycle my new live rock.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

All the talk about yellowing has and will occur in an improperly run ATS.

Running carbon will absorb gelbstoff.


Well, there is no doubt that GAC will reduce or eliminate yellowing. An ATS run without GAC, however, will yellow. Even a FO tank without any algae will yellow without some sort of organic removal mechanism.

The problem is that some proponents of ATS have suggested that nothing else is needed, and if that includes no GAC, then you get yellowing.